Depression

He's going through a bitter divorce and lashed out at Dabamf. Dabamf, perhaps rightly, completely freaked out over it. I do think Dabamf was looking for a reason to pull the trigger. He said as much in his please delete this account post. No one should care about this kind of shit but unfortunately in some fields some people do care very much. And when it's the people who sign your paycheck that care very much that means that you need to care very much. And I think you'll see this kind of institutional paranoia become even more prevalent with your children. Less us, more them.

I'm not white knighting him either. I think he's kinda a hippy, tbh. But just smack him and say, "Don't be a dick." We all make mistakes. You don't have to hate him forever -- I would caution against that very strongly. A 30 day shaw makes the don't be a dick point very well.

As far as behavior modification... well, it's not easy. "Get involved innewthings" is probably some of the best advice you're ever gonna get. It's the easiest and cheapest treatment... but there's nothing easy or cheap about actually doing it. It all ties in together, I'm not just talking about Damabf to pile on and dredge the harbor.

Not every parting needs to be a sorrow. Sometimes things have run their course and a farewell can be sweet without the bitter. The days are short but life is long.

Vaclav_sl said:

Sorry if I was bumming you out, bro. Just venting in what seems to be a (mostly) healthy place for it. (Don't feel you were blaming me, just trying to console you some)

Yesterday was better with my mind wandering into some of those destructive patterns without too much external effort, and not having any yet today - was right before my next dose of meds was due that I had the last time - but then again we had the bro-in-law and niece visiting yesterday, so it was an unusual case - so far this morning with a little insomnia I've not been drifting though.

Knock on wood, my medication (Efexor) will keep me out of that thinking pattern until I can find a therapist to train my brain to fix it permanently.

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No no no , you did nothing or posted nothing wrong man.

And thank you Iannis for the details.

I wasn't insulted by Dabamf's post to me, I understood what he was trying to do and we're all just Guy On Internet here. Much of what he said wasn't entirely wrong, but it wasn't like I was unaware of my own behavior. I just made the point that it was just too presumptuous of him to go that far with the "straight talk express" routine and he seemed to agree and that would have been fine. Hell, that's been the biggest problem - I'm fully fucking aware, and I cannot fucking figure out how to change it because frankly, I'm terrified. The place I was at just six months ago - I can't do that again. That was the absolute worst I have ever felt about myself. I had no idea the depths of my regret and self-loathing. I thought I had long since become apathetic - I was so, SO wrong.

My assumption is he was having a shitty day himself.

As for why I tend to have such hit-and-run posts in here, it's really quite simple: When I'm in an okay mood, I'm not going to fuck it up. And my moods are usually a simple bell curve - shit in the morning, shit at night, mostly okay in between. So I'm down when I get to work and most of my busy stuff doesn't come in right away so I wind up on here.

Speaking of, unusually busy for a Monday before noon. I'm actually happy about this. Heck, I wrote most of this two hours ago and then forgot about it.

Kreu: It sounds like you're having issues like I am (or hopefully was) with the "shit in the morning and evening" concept - that when you're occupied your mind doesn't go to negative places. So in theory some of the above advice for me, might go the same for you.

Think I'm giving up on the no drugs route. I just need something to help until I can get better control of everything. I was up all night on Saturday night, essentially having an anxiety freak out. After 3 hours, I finally woke my husband up just so I could get his comfort and have him help talk through things.

I feel like everything is slipping right now. If I don't distract myself entirely, I am overwhelmed by negative thinking and if I do distract myself, nothing that I need to do gets done. Husband is trying to relieve some of the pressure but I'm still so overwhelmed. Feels like shit.

What meds have you tried in the past (or why no meds)? Again, similar stuff here - and Efexor doing well.

lindz_sl said:

Think I'm giving up on the no drugs route. I just need something to help until I can get better control of everything. I was up all night on Saturday night, essentially having an anxiety freak out. After 3 hours, I finally woke my husband up just so I could get his comfort and have him help talk through things.

I feel like everything is slipping right now. If I don't distract myself entirely, I am overwhelmed by negative thinking and if I do distract myself, nothing that I need to do gets done. Husband is trying to relieve some of the pressure but I'm still so overwhelmed. Feels like shit.

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If you had success on Serotonin as I did in the past with limited success( Zoloft for me ) I found something that works even better and even helps a little with my back pain.
When I started on Tramadol I had to stop taking Zoloft due to the conflict in Serotonin it creates and it has turned out it works even better for me than Zoloft ever did.

I tried reading up why this worked and about the conflict but I can't find it in english, just in all medical speak.
It wasn't planned to have a effect but it's worked as I have not had the reasons I took anxiety medicines occur since being on Tramadol for 4 months now which were 2 primary things. Inability to get to sleep due to anxiety ( mostly work related of deadlines, bills, forms, things I need to do everyday to keep things going in my business ) and sudden anger to run my shopping cart over fat people blocking isles in stores ( Don't laugh I would break out in a sweat and become very angry over stupid people ).
Now I fall asleep within about 10 minutes of laying down and I can go to Kroger/Meijer/Walmart without making the evening news.

Heh, I can relate to that sudden anger stuff, Olebass - it would always be verbal or occasionally throwing something across the room in an environment I'm really comfortable with (away from anyone though) though. But yea, stupidity was a trigger for me previously.

Ya it was weird and started happening after my brothers death.
I could handle bitchy woman at home, deadlines at work, people not showing up for work, mad homeowners and screwups and things that would normally probably break many people just fine.
Get me in a store trapped in a isle with elephants, nope, shit was about to get real.

I was put on antidepressants/anti-anxiety meds back when I was 19, can't remember what they were but I never felt like it did anything. I went off them after a few months and have basically ignored my problems since then.

I did drugs in high school and I feel like it really fucked with me. It wasn't a ton, but it was enough that I feel like it changed my intellectual capacity. I guess I have a thing about putting any medication in my body now, especially things that alter my mental state.

lindz_sl said:

I was put on antidepressants/anti-anxiety meds back when I was 19, can't remember what they were but I never felt like it did anything. I went off them after a few months and have basically ignored my problems since then.

I did drugs in high school and I feel like it really fucked with me. It wasn't a ton, but it was enough that I feel like it changed my intellectual capacity. I guess I have a thing about putting any medication in my body now, especially things that alter my mental state.

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Ah, had never been on anything previously really besides a low dose of Prozac for a few months that did help a little when I was starting to cope with my neuro issues - but I can relate to the not liking an altered mental state thing after my distaste for abuse of alcohol after around 20ish (first serious hangover broke me of wanting to), marijuana the two times I tried it really did nothing for me besides making my lungs hurt (similar for nicotine ciggs). And of course being the son of a FDA employee and dinner table talk across my youth covering lots of interaction nonsense I've always had it pounded into my head to take as little as you need since overmedicating can be as or more dangerous than undermedicating.

I do feel that even just four days in that the Efexor plus treatment plan at the psych ward really helped (as well as alot of interaction with quite a few people dealing with addiction - basically all the people I gravitated towards socializing with were going to rehab) adjust years of being in the wrong mental state - I won't say I've not drifted into negative thinking at all (as mentioned previously I had some yesterday morning) but it's definitely a tiny portion of a much larger whole at this point - it was a constant demon tormenting me almost any minute I wasn't immediately engaged in something versus maybe an hour or two since I've been out that one morning. And of course the best thing is I don't feel my problem solving and prevention talents (which I always thought that negative thinking helped with) have been impaired at all, in fact I feel that might very well be even stronger since I'm better able to focus on each thing individually rather than trying to multitask 19 issues at once.

Or in short - I don't think your worries about the negatives are warranted from my experience lindz. Let them know your worries about impairing your intellectual capacity so they won't throw you on something like Lithium (I think that's one that does) or something else that might slow down your thinking while giving you more control over the thoughts that break you down. The risk involved in trying is very little and could make how you experience your life a ton better - the risk-reward makes it a no-brainer to anyone who even considers it possible to me.

Olebass: Depends on the case for me - driving I definitely roadrage a bit, home I certainly can (although arguments with another depressive are probably to blame for that, large amounts of escalation), and then for the "store" example for me it's got to do with the noise level in an area - if I'm in an area where I can hear a bunch of voices at once it's like nails on a chalkboard and almost anything can send me over the edge. (And my hearing is VERY good)

lindz_sl said:

Think I'm giving up on the no drugs route. I just need something to help until I can get better control of everything. I was up all night on Saturday night, essentially having an anxiety freak out. After 3 hours, I finally woke my husband up just so I could get his comfort and have him help talk through things.

I feel like everything is slipping right now. If I don't distract myself entirely, I am overwhelmed by negative thinking and if I do distract myself, nothing that I need to do gets done. Husband is trying to relieve some of the pressure but I'm still so overwhelmed. Feels like shit.

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Been there, dude. I don't know how many nights I've had to wake up the wife to just have someone help with the anxiety. A lot of mine is health related, but I've had different forms of depression for quite awhile now. I was on Efexor some years back, and I think it helped, but coming off of it was a sumbitch.

I take Cymbalta now, and to be honest I 'think' it helps, at least it has in the past. But I've been having a lot of depressive thoughts lately. I'm having another damn heart procedure the 19th, and I've known about it for a month and the anxiety has been building up.

Talk to your doctor, it can't hurt, and make sure he/she knows about your apprehension. And don't feel like you're the lone person with misgivings about the meds, either.

One of my biggest issues is I'm too good at masking my emotions around people. In a way, being around people brings out the "best" in me. Unfortunately, that best also means hiding my depression. I had to send an e-mail to my therapist basically saying not to believe me when I say I'm doing okay. I've learned that I'm just not capable of being honest to others when it comes to discussing my emotions face-to-face. Hopefully that e-mail will help her force the issue with me a bit more so we can get the shit out in the open and actually work on it.

Troll_sl said:

One of my biggest issues is I'm too good at masking my emotions around people. In a way, being around people brings out the "best" in me. Unfortunately, that best also means hiding my depression. I had to send an e-mail to my therapist basically saying not to believe me when I say I'm doing okay. I've learned that I'm just not capable of being honest to others when it comes to discussing my emotions face-to-face. Hopefully that e-mail will help her force the issue with me a bit more so we can get the shit out in the open and actually work on it.

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More stuff I can relate to here - I won't say I'm cured of this problem, but I'm definitely expressing myself better and showing emotion alot better now after a 3 day inpatient visit.

Actually found myself actually making and holding eye contact earlier which I've never been able to do consistently before as well. (Blinking on the other person still distracted me a little - but it was amazing regardless)

I feel like I need to share this with you. Sam Harris talking about consciousness, and what it means to be fulfilled in the present, among other things. I, like some of you, am depressive and have been most of my life. The reasons aren't really important. Just saying I share with many of you a tendency for rumination, brooding, uncontrolled negative thought, and this talk has my mind buzzing.

Linked directly to the important part. Not much about atheism in this part (a little), more about the nature of your mind, and a brief meditative exercise. Just thought it might help someone.

Looks like it didn't want to link directly to time. Start at 21:21.

Aaron: The answer is yes, that's just the depression making you doubt the right answers.

Doesn't sound like you're in an inpatient situation though, but I'd definitely try to seriously consider outpatient.

Benzos are not a good long term solution to anxiety. Linda, try and see a psychiatrist; primary care often has a difficult time managing symptoms such as yours appropriately.

aaron_sl said:

I'm not really saying I doubt the right answers. It's just that I don't care any more. I'm talking emotionally here. I have no passion for anything. I just "am". It almost sounds like I've found some sort of zen-state, but you're supposed to be smiling like the Buddha, I neither frown nor smile.

I wouldn't go so far to say as I was miserable, as I have been in the past. There just seems to be some sort of emotional void within me.

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I know exactly what you're talking about man, I was there - it didn't "feel miserable" because I just "acted like a Vulcan all the time" (as my wife says) - but once my Dad passed plus our quickly made close friends down here turned on us I came a bit unhinged where I truly realized I was miserable. I was on the edge holding myself together barely because of suppressing emotion to the point where I was almost a robot (emotional void).

Even now, just 4 full days out of the hospital and 6 days medicated I've found myself laughing regularly, making eye contact with people without feeling awkward, and generally taking a genuine interest in things without getting overwhelmed. I've not felt like this in YEARS, probably decades.

I'm no psychiatrist, but I'd think that the "emotional void" thing was something you and I learned as a coping method to mask depression - which certainly is effective most of the time - but it's a far better life without masking things.

(If I get motivated to later, I might transcribe one of my "worksheets" from the hospital that seems relevant - it was on Passive/Aggressive/Assertive behavior - a healthy person should be mostly assertive, I found myself almost entirely Passive, and I'm willing to bet you would as well [in fact "no caring about own emotions, but does care about others" or something similar I believe was part of it])