Depression

moonarchia · Oct 28, 2023

TheBeagle said:
I'm really struggling with alcoholism. Fucked up really bad last night but somehow I'm alive and not sitting in jail. I deserve worse and the people in my life deserve better. I definitely need help but I don't know where to start.

If you are truly ready to change it, then you start by getting help. Have family and loved ones help you get rid of all the alcohol you have stashed away. Join AA, and talk to your sponsor all the damn time. Find an external focus. Exercise. Cooking. Biking. MMOs. Any time you even think about drinking you just pour your time and energy into that focus instead.

First 3 weeks are going to suck. A lot. If you are physically addicted then it is going to be excruciatingly painful as well. If you have a job and vacation or mental health benefits, a stay at a rehab center might help.

Good luck!

Koushirou · Oct 28, 2023

Don’t have any experience or advice for this, but I do wish you the best of luck and hope you can get the help you need. If it gets tough, can always bitch here in the thread as much as you need.

Springbok · Oct 28, 2023

Booze for me was “cured” (never cured) by having kids. However, when I find myself “alone” or in settings where booze is available I still struggle immensely. The only thing I’ve ever found that helped was complete avoidance but that’s not possible forever and when I do find myself around it, it almost never ends well. Have no advice, obviously, just saying I feel your pain. Very self destructive drug that remains alluring in spite of the myriad downsides.

Oblio · Oct 28, 2023

TheBeagle said:
I don't know where to start.

You just did. You just started! I know we are all "anonymous," but Bro coming here an admitting you have an issue shows strength and the willingness to do better. Don't wallow in misery, be kind to yourself. You have identified the issue now take steps to change. Look at this as the start of your new life and look at with excitement. Your best days are a head of you. For what it is worth I am proud to call you a forum bro based on your post. Keep your head up and stay positive!

Cutlery · Oct 29, 2023

TheBeagle said:
I'm really struggling with alcoholism. Fucked up really bad last night but somehow I'm alive and not sitting in jail. I deserve worse and the people in my life deserve better. I definitely need help but I don't know where to start.

Journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step, and all that shit.

I can give you all kinds of hobby ideas like these guys, but those hobbies work for me and may not work for you, so that's pointless. The big thing however is to always try to be improving your situation. It's just like anything else in life...you didn't get to this point with a drinking problem in a day, so it's not going to be fixed in a day. I didn't put on 20lbs and lose a solid chunk of my muscle mass in one day, and I damned sure didn't get it back to where I wanna be in a day. But I'm down 8lbs in 2 months and I've doubled the weight on the bar on most exercises and I've got my nutrition mostly under control. Now it's just the thrill of chasing the grind. I try to stay under calories. Try to keep my protein over 160. I get excited every time I can slap another 5lbs on the bar. Its awesome to hop on the scale every day and see it go down while looking better and feel better.

You're not gonna not be an alcoholic tomorrow. You still will be. But maybe tomorrow we make slightly better choices and we start working towards that goal. I don't have an addictive personality and don't have advice for how to deal with that other than that general stuff....but that's how I choose to confront problems. You can't build a house without nailing the first 2 boards together. It's a big project, but if you try to be slightly better today than you were yesterday, in a year, you'll be amazed at how far you've come.

------------

In other news. Seasonal depression is a cunt.

Furry · Oct 29, 2023

Springbok said:
Booze for me was “cured” (never cured) by having kids. However, when I find myself “alone” or in settings where booze is available I still struggle immensely. The only thing I’ve ever found that helped was complete avoidance but that’s not possible forever and when I do find myself around it, it almost never ends well. Have no advice, obviously, just saying I feel your pain. Very self destructive drug that remains alluring in spite of the myriad downsides.

I struggled immensely with alcoholism for a patch of a few years. Never went to the point I wasn’t functional when I needed to be, but I was blackout drunk 90% of the time I wasn’t working or had some planned obligation for almost all of it, including numerous weekend long or even week long binge sessions. I dropped it by putting myself in a situation where I couldn’t drink for a couple weeks, and then planning shit so I couldn’t be drunk if I wanted to hold to my obligations for a couple months. Even when I was a heavy drinker, there’s no way I’d miss something I’d planned to do, so forcing my sense of obligation was the way that worked for me.

From there, I picked up a few time wasting hobbies to burn time on if I get bored or feel like there’s nothing to do, which was the biggest catalyst for my desire to start drinking personally. Painting and wood working to be specific, but that said I consider falling into a situation where I have to think of alcohol and then use a hobby as a stop gap as a failure. If you aren’t looking ahead to doing a hobby and going there first, it’ll probably fail you.

Also, I’m weird for a reformed alcoholic. I have absolutely no problem with having a couple drinks in a public setting. My problem exclusively comes from me being in a situation where I am alone and have nothing to do.

TheBeagle · Oct 29, 2023

My problem stems from the fact that I've always associated drinking with fun so no drinking=no fun. I do have lots of hobbies and I've always combined them with drinking - golf, fishing, working around the house, all stuff I enjoy doing but enjoy even more with a beer in my hand. its never been an every day thing so I won't have to deal with withdrawals but after 30 years its progressed to the point where once I get started the next thing I know I've killed a 12 pack and I start making really, really bad decisions. Having a lot more disposable income obviously hasn't helped either.

I totaled my personal vehicle so that has been removed from the equation and will keep me grounded at home when I'm not working. Somehow avoided going to jail and a DWI but I do have to talk to the police Monday before I can get my belongings out of my truck at the impound so I'm not completely out of the woods there. My shame and regret is just so overpowering right now and I constantly feel sick to my stomach. No one was hurt besides myself, Thank God. Immediate plan is to start attending AA and hopefully get some strength from others that have this problem. I think I need to do some real therapy though, a lot of issues from my childhood that I've never worked through that I think have always held me back. Anyway, I do thank all of you and your encouragement, it does help.

Foler · Oct 29, 2023

TheBeagle said:
My problem stems from the fact that I've always associated drinking with fun so no drinking=no fun. I do have lots of hobbies and I've always combined them with drinking - golf, fishing, working around the house, all stuff I enjoy doing but enjoy even more with a beer in my hand. its never been an every day thing so I won't have to deal with withdrawals but after 30 years its progressed to the point where once I get started the next thing I know I've killed a 12 pack and I start making really, really bad decisions. Having a lot more disposable income obviously hasn't helped either.

I totaled my personal vehicle so that has been removed from the equation and will keep me grounded at home when I'm not working. Somehow avoided going to jail and a DWI but I do have to talk to the police Monday before I can get my belongings out of my truck at the impound so I'm not completely out of the woods there. My shame and regret is just so overpowering right now and I constantly feel sick to my stomach. No one was hurt besides myself, Thank God. Immediate plan is to start attending AA and hopefully get some strength from others that have this problem. I think I need to do some real therapy though, a lot of issues from my childhood that I've never worked through that I think have always held me back. Anyway, I do thank all of you and your encouragement, it does help.

You should do real therapy. Finding the right therapist is hard. From my experience many therapists have fallen into this liberal culture and abuse CBT to just calm you down while not addressing underlying issues. This was what my old counselor was. He’s now fully embraced liberal culture and is making bank. He fully embraced transgenderism publicly and affirms it.. He’s at 3 offices now, multiple Rolexes, only hires counseling interns because I imagine he can pay them very little. Go figure, take a group of people suffering from mental health issues, just listen and talk to them, don’t address the mental illness and go along with the “world is against me” theory they have.. They end up just coming back for another hit of the “feel goods”

Actually it was someone in this thread who had an awesome experience with a female therapist. He said he went to the gym with her and her husband and had a lot of respect for them. For some reason

Gravel name comes to mind but I may be off. I think the poster’s name started with a G.

I did a TON of searching. A ton of research. Id track down therapists social media. Run them through “the database “ (

), find what party affiliation they voted for (public in fla), find is they were married with kids, etc.

At the end of the day I took a huge leap of faith based on the other poster’s experience and tried a female counselor. She actually does real counseling, like trying to find root issues. It’s painful. It’ll be super painful. But I think there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.

There are a few online directories for counselors if you’re conservative, if this is something that concerns you as it did me. My counselor didn’t come from this one but I did use it for research. Not sure if my phone is wigging out but their search isn’t working for me at the moment. Maybe give it a shot yourself though.

Find a Professional | Conservative Professionals

Search for mental health professionals near you who are affirming of American, Conservative values.

www.conservativetherapists.com

Hatorade · Oct 29, 2023

Foler said:
You should do real therapy. Finding the right therapist is hard. From my experience many therapists have fallen into this liberal culture and abuse CBT to just calm you down while not addressing underlying issues. This was what my old counselor was. He’s now fully embraced liberal culture and is making bank. He fully embraced transgenderism publicly and affirms it.. He’s at 3 offices now, multiple Rolexes, only hires counseling interns because I imagine he can pay them very little. Go figure, take a group of people suffering from mental health issues, just listen and talk to them, don’t address the mental illness and go along with the “world is against me” theory they have.. They end up just coming back for another hit of the “feel goods”

Actually it was someone in this thread who had an awesome experience with a female therapist. He said he went to the gym with her and her husband and had a lot of respect for them. For some reason Gravel name comes to mind but I may be off. I think the poster’s name started with a G.

I did a TON of searching. A ton of research. Id track down therapists social media. Run them through “the database “ (), find what party affiliation they voted for (public in fla), find is they were married with kids, etc.

At the end of the day I took a huge leap of faith based on the other poster’s experience and tried a female counselor. She actually does real counseling, like trying to find root issues. It’s painful. It’ll be super painful. But I think there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.

There are a few online directories for counselors if you’re conservative, if this is something that concerns you as it did me. My counselor didn’t come from this one but I did use it for research. Not sure if my phone is wigging out but their search isn’t working for me at the moment. Maybe give it a shot yourself though.

Find a Professional | Conservative Professionals

Search for mental health professionals near you who are affirming of American, Conservative values.

www.conservativetherapists.com

Yeah the first two therapist didn't "feel right" and ended up going to a psychiatrists who specialized in the issues I wanted to resolve and oddly enough didn't want to start with meds. Only went to 6 sessions and was able to handle it better on my own.

Foler · Oct 29, 2023

Hatorade said:
Yeah the first two therapist didn't "feel right" and ended up going to a psychiatrists who specialized in the issues I wanted to resolve and oddly enough didn't want to start with meds. Only went to 6 sessions and was able to handle it better on my own.

That shit fucking works bro. At this point I think SRIs and shit are like absolute last resort temp solution. Yeah it definitely takes works finding the right one. Would encourage anyone reading this point who is discouraged to keep pressing on. Like H said here, took him a few times. Glad it worked out.

sleevedraw · Oct 31, 2023

TheBeagle said:
My problem stems from the fact that I've always associated drinking with fun so no drinking=no fun. I do have lots of hobbies and I've always combined them with drinking - golf, fishing, working around the house, all stuff I enjoy doing but enjoy even more with a beer in my hand. its never been an every day thing so I won't have to deal with withdrawals but after 30 years its progressed to the point where once I get started the next thing I know I've killed a 12 pack and I start making really, really bad decisions. Having a lot more disposable income obviously hasn't helped either.

I totaled my personal vehicle so that has been removed from the equation and will keep me grounded at home when I'm not working. Somehow avoided going to jail and a DWI but I do have to talk to the police Monday before I can get my belongings out of my truck at the impound so I'm not completely out of the woods there. My shame and regret is just so overpowering right now and I constantly feel sick to my stomach. No one was hurt besides myself, Thank God. Immediate plan is to start attending AA and hopefully get some strength from others that have this problem. I think I need to do some real therapy though, a lot of issues from my childhood that I've never worked through that I think have always held me back. Anyway, I do thank all of you and your encouragement, it does help.

I've run groups for people in residential facilities who have been addicted to substances for so long that they literally don't have any idea what they would do with their lives if they weren't using. You already seem to have a lot of insight regarding what sets the behavior off, which gets you way ahead relative to some others.

I don't know this for a fact, but I think AA will help because you might be able to find a peer group that you can enjoy your hobbies with (but who can nudge you not to drink while doing them.) The fact that you already have hobbies means that you might potentially be able to show other people something new as well.

Echoing Foler and Hate here - therapy can be immensely helpful, but it's super important to find a therapist that meshes well with you. Even the best therapists are bad matches for some people because different people "need" different things. Some people benefit from a humanistic 'paid friend' who mostly sits back, lets a person intuit things out for themselves, and acts as a shoulder to cry on if needed. Others benefit from a more logical, focused CBT approach where people actively challenge you on your bullshit, give you "homework," etc. Still others need the Freudian childhood dredging. Some need all three.

Good luck, man.

Foler · Oct 31, 2023

sleevedraw said:
I've run groups for people in residential facilities who have been addicted to substances for so long that they literally don't have any idea what they would do with their lives if they weren't using. You already seem to have a lot of insight regarding what sets the behavior off, which gets you way ahead relative to some others.

I don't know this for a fact, but I think AA will help because you might be able to find a peer group that you can enjoy your hobbies with (but who can nudge you not to drink while doing them.) The fact that you already have hobbies means that you might potentially be able to show other people something new as well.

Echoing Foler and Hate here - therapy can be immensely helpful, but it's super important to find a therapist that meshes well with you. Even the best therapists are bad matches for some people because different people "need" different things. Some people benefit from a humanistic 'paid friend' who mostly sits back, lets a person intuit things out for themselves, and acts as a shoulder to cry on if needed. Others benefit from a more logical, focused CBT approach where people actively challenge you on your bullshit, give you "homework," etc. Still others need the Freudian childhood dredging. Some need all three.

Good luck, man.

Random question but have you ever come across people who have been on SSRIs or some form of antidepressant their entire life, are still depressed and have no idea what life is like off them? Or with similar drugs like adderall? I guess drugs that normally wouldn’t be classified as “abused and addictive”. I know people who have taken these all their lives and I’m not sure they even know why they’re taking them. It’s just a revolving door of trying a new antidepressant.

sleevedraw · Oct 31, 2023

Foler said:
Random question but have you ever come across people who have been on SSRIs or some form of antidepressant their entire life, are still depressed and have no idea what life is like off them? Or with similar drugs like adderall? I guess drugs that normally wouldn’t be classified as “abused and addictive”. I know people who have taken these all their lives and I’m not sure they even know why they’re taking them. It’s just a revolving door of trying a new antidepressant.

Yes, though this will be a bit of a long answer. We need to make two distinctions here: [1] a distinction between something that can cause physical dependence vs something that can cause mental dependence (or both) and [2] a distinction between SSRIs and Adderall.

Adderall is literally amphetamine and is a drug of abuse in the traditional sense. SSRIs can cause physical dependence (withdrawal off them can be very unpleasant and can cause "brain zaps", nausea, flu-like symptoms) but they are rarely if ever something that people get a "high" or an "urge" to use.

I'm not an antidepressant fan mostly because the serotonin hypothesis has been known bunk for around 40-50 years, the drugs have side effects, and they are not easy to get off. I think in a lot of situations, they absolutely are just used to "cover up" issues rather than work through them. And yes, I know some people who basically just move from antidepressant to antidepressant in the hopes that something might magically "cure" them, but nothing works. However, I think they are appropriate within a certain subset of people. While living in a permanent state of "meh" isn't ideal, it beats being so depressed that you're basically catatonic and unable to get out of bed. And some people simply do not have the insight to get to their root issues. Similar principle to cancer patients getting opiates for pain control - sometimes you can't really treat the root cause, and all you can do is mask it.

Mental health has always existed in a permanent state of fucked up and always will be; there just aren't any one-size-fits-all solutions. Szasz, the libertarians, and a lot of members of the New Left were correct that putting people in institutions is often used to suppress political dissidents and harmless eccentrics, but there does exist a certain subset of people that are so messed in the head that they will never be able to survive outside one. The right is correct that people often use their mental issues as crutches/excuses to avoid confronting difficult problems, but it's also very difficult to solve said problems if people aren't "set up for success" with a good support system.

TheBeagle · Oct 31, 2023

sleevedraw said:
I've run groups for people in residential facilities who have been addicted to substances for so long that they literally don't have any idea what they would do with their lives if they weren't using. You already seem to have a lot of insight regarding what sets the behavior off, which gets you way ahead relative to some others.

I don't know this for a fact, but I think AA will help because you might be able to find a peer group that you can enjoy your hobbies with (but who can nudge you not to drink while doing them.) The fact that you already have hobbies means that you might potentially be able to show other people something new as well.

Echoing Foler and Hate here - therapy can be immensely helpful, but it's super important to find a therapist that meshes well with you. Even the best therapists are bad matches for some people because different people "need" different things. Some people benefit from a humanistic 'paid friend' who mostly sits back, lets a person intuit things out for themselves, and acts as a shoulder to cry on if needed. Others benefit from a more logical, focused CBT approach where people actively challenge you on your bullshit, give you "homework," etc. Still others need the Freudian childhood dredging. Some need all three.

Good luck, man.

That's great advice, I appreciate it.

Now that it's been a few days I can start to feel the burning desire to take action wearing off. It's a pattern that I've repeated over the years. It's not like I'm thinking about drinking but I do start thinking I can just power through it on my own. But every other time I've white knuckled this shit it always ends badly. This time though I have a constant reminder - I can't even sleep lying flat right now because my ribs are so busted up, and my beautiful truck is no longer parked in my driveway.

MusicForFish · Nov 6, 2023

Furry · Nov 6, 2023

TheBeagle said:
This time though I have a constant reminder - I can't even sleep lying flat right now because my ribs are so busted up, and my beautiful truck is no longer parked in my driveway.

It’s amazing how fast a painful reminder can become a battle scar if you let it. I’ve gone through the reasoning myself where I suddenly went from “I’d never want to be in this situation again, look at the things I’ve lost, my health I’ve hurt” and turned it into “I survived that, I’ll be fine for the next thing.”

It’s hard feelings to reconcile, because what makes you briefly happy in the now can often lead to a path of greater suffering. Humans just suck at having that outlook when things just work out for them. It’s what true privilege is I guess. If answers came easy with these problems there wouldn’t be so many people dedicating their lives to trying to fix them.

Hope you work it out.

TheBeagle · Nov 6, 2023

Furry said:
It’s amazing how fast a painful reminder can become a battle scar if you let it. I’ve gone through the reasoning myself where I suddenly went from “I’d never want to be in this situation again, look at the things I’ve lost, my health I’ve hurt” and turned it into “I survived that, I’ll be fine for the next thing.”

It’s hard feelings to reconcile, because what makes you briefly happy in the now can often lead to a path of greater suffering. Humans just suck at having that outlook when things just work out for them. It’s what true privilege is I guess. If answers came easy with these problems there wouldn’t be so many people dedicating their lives to trying to fix them.

Hope you work it out.

Just going to work and then coming home to hang out, play video games, and work in the garden the past week has been great. Acting much more like my old self. Looking forward to stringing a few more of these weeks together, but there is a major bump in the road coming up. The wifey is going out of town next week so I will find myself unaccountable to no one but myself. I haven't started trying to talk myself into doing something stupid or reckless yet and I would have to go rent a car for the weekend if I did, so I think I'll get through it ok.

Tmac · Nov 6, 2023

TheBeagle said:
I'm really struggling with alcoholism. Fucked up really bad last night but somehow I'm alive and not sitting in jail. I deserve worse and the people in my life deserve better. I definitely need help but I don't know where to start.

You're an addict. Admitting it is the first step, you're already on the path, so congratulations man, sincerely. At the same time I'm really sorry you've found yourself at the bottom of the pit. It takes a lot of pain and coping to get there, however there's a lot of growth waiting for you if you want it.

Your potential first steps should be widely available to you in your area:
1. Find an AA group and start attending
2. Find an addiction counselor and start meeting

Tmac · Nov 6, 2023

TheBeagle said:
I haven't started trying to talk myself into doing something stupid or reckless yet and I would have to go rent a car for the weekend if I did, so I think I'll get through it ok.

Addiction speaks with your own voice. It wants you dead and alone. It will lead you to alienate yourself by acting out, catastrophizing, isolating, withdrawing, etc. to keep you in the cycle of fear, shame, and guilt so that you use again.

You might be telling yourself that bc you're feeling yourself again you don't need to get help, and I don't know if you're thinking that, but you do need to get help. Don't waste the first step of admitting you have a problem and that you're out of control.

And just so you know, it's okay to be needy. It's okay to ask for help. You may be telling yourself it's not, but that would be a lie. Cling to the truth.

ToeMissile · Nov 6, 2023

If you’re going to be alone, find someone to be around that will help you keep out of the situations that lead you to drink.

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