Desktop Computers

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

Zindan

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
7,317
5,146
So for those who have built systems recently, ones with several case fans. If the motherboard allows it, can you set speed controls for each fan independently? This new system I got has a total of 10 fans in the case (more than a bit much, imo), and its obnoxiously loud when under any type of load. I looked in the BIOS at the fan section and there were CPU, Pump and 3 System fans, with the 3 System fans showing zero RPM and no apparent control scheme setup for them. Did the builders somehow daisy chain all the fans to be considered the CPU fan, thus causing all of them rev up when the cpu reaches those heat breakpoints?
 

Lambourne

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,085
7,311
So for those who have built systems recently, ones with several case fans. If the motherboard allows it, can you set speed controls for each fan independently? This new system I got has a total of 10 fans in the case (more than a bit much, imo), and its obnoxiously loud when under any type of load. I looked in the BIOS at the fan section and there were CPU, Pump and 3 System fans, with the 3 System fans showing zero RPM and no apparent control scheme setup for them. Did the builders somehow daisy chain all the fans to be considered the CPU fan, thus causing all of them rev up when the cpu reaches those heat breakpoints?

Most likely the case fans are 3 wire fans hooked into a fan control hub which doesn't pass rpm back to the motherboard header. The fans are controlled as a set via the fan controller. The motherboard should still allow control of the fans, most likely according to mainboard temperature. Should be able to adjust a fan profile in bios but there is often also a windows utility too.

Some system builders set the fan control profiles to aggressive because people complain about high cpu temperatures more than they complain about noise, even when temperatures are not actually at problematic levels.

Are you sure it's the case fans making the noise? You can try reducing the power limit of either the CPU or GPU to see if one of those is making the noise. It's not a linear reduction in performance, sometimes a 30% power limit reduction only gives a 10% reduction in fps.
 

Lanx

<Prior Amod>
68,091
156,597
So for those who have built systems recently, ones with several case fans. If the motherboard allows it, can you set speed controls for each fan independently? This new system I got has a total of 10 fans in the case (more than a bit much, imo), and its obnoxiously loud when under any type of load. I looked in the BIOS at the fan section and there were CPU, Pump and 3 System fans, with the 3 System fans showing zero RPM and no apparent control scheme setup for them. Did the builders somehow daisy chain all the fans to be considered the CPU fan, thus causing all of them rev up when the cpu reaches those heat breakpoints?
yea what Lambourne Lambourne said, follow 1 case fan lead and you'll see that it's connected to (probabaly 2) fan hubs, those case fans are just tied to whatever temp sensor is in the hub.

something like this
e8153f79d8f251493628ac53a3d4c449.png
 

Zindan

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
7,317
5,146
Most likely the case fans are 3 wire fans hooked into a fan control hub which doesn't pass rpm back to the motherboard header. The fans are controlled as a set via the fan controller. The motherboard should still allow control of the fans, most likely according to mainboard temperature. Should be able to adjust a fan profile in bios but there is often also a windows utility too.

Some system builders set the fan control profiles to aggressive because people complain about high cpu temperatures more than they complain about noise, even when temperatures are not actually at problematic levels.

Are you sure it's the case fans making the noise? You can try reducing the power limit of either the CPU or GPU to see if one of those is making the noise. It's not a linear reduction in performance, sometimes a 30% power limit reduction only gives a 10% reduction in fps.
This is probably what is going on. I sent the builders an email asking about it, so I'll probably hear back from them after the weekend. I am pretty sure its the case fans, even though the 5070ti is gigantic, the amount of sound just doesn't make sense to be coming from the GPU alone. Here are a couple images of what I saw in the BIOS for the fans, forgive the shitty quality, they were taken with my phone and I think the monitors curved screen fucked with the quality:

1000000040.jpg


1000000041.jpg
 

Malakriss

Golden Baronet of the Realm
12,848
12,226
TL;DR it was a simple script that added a registry key. They removed the script but you can still add the key yourself using the Shift+F10 method.

"start ms-cxh:localonly" The command will pop up an older, Windows 10 style interface that lets you specify a username and password for the local account. Then, clicking next will take you straight to preparing the desktop
 
Last edited:

Lambourne

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,085
7,311
This is probably what is going on. I sent the builders an email asking about it, so I'll probably hear back from them after the weekend. I am pretty sure its the case fans, even though the 5070ti is gigantic, the amount of sound just doesn't make sense to be coming from the GPU alone. Here are a couple images of what I saw in the BIOS for the fans, forgive the shitty quality, they were taken with my phone and I think the monitors curved screen fucked with the quality:

View attachment 580138

View attachment 580139

Try changing temperature source on the second screen to "motherboard" or similar. You can't really break anything on modern systems just by messing with fan profiles, it will throttle itself into a crawl if it has to rather than overheat to the point of damage.
 

Jovec

?
829
407
Each fan header can have different settings. If you daisy chain 3 fans off a single header, those 3 fans will operate identically. Most fan hubs operate as a single fan header too. In your BIOS, you can define the source (typically CPU or Mobo) and a preset fan curve (typically Quiet, Standard, Performance, and Full). These presets adjust the fan curve, which is a mapping of source temperature to fan RPM. The Quiet preset would typically require higher temps before ramping fan speeds up, while Performance will do that at lower temps. You can also define your own fan curves.

Better mobos will all have fan ramp up/down (hysteresis). This is how fast the fans increase/decrease their RPM. This is a key setting in dealing with fan noise. Instant ramp up/down means that when the sources reaches a threshold, say 50C, the fan RPM might go from 25% to 60% instantly. Add a few seconds of the ramp up, and the fans will slowly increase to 60%, making them less noticeable. In addition, this deals much better with rapid, spikey heat loads.

Mobo presets are generally shit. Modern CPUs actually run very warm at idle and low load, so a cuve that has too many points at lower temperatures will have the fans spinning up and down constantly. A better starting point for a custom curve would be something like >0C @ 20% RPM, >65C @ 40% RPM, >70C @ 50/60% RPM, >80C @ 75%RPM, >90C @ 100% RPM. For minor computer tasks the suggested curve will keeps the fans below 40%, espescially with 2-5 seeconds of ramp up. Fan quality/static pressure/etc. matters, espescially for noise-to-performance ratios, but the AIO radiator or tower cooler does the bulk of the work as long as there is some airflow. The thermal mass of a large tower cooler or AIO will handle temps spikes easily even with low fan speeds.

You can often simply set a fixed 30/40 or 50% fan speed that doesn't respond to temperatures at all and be just fine with a decent air flow case.

Learn to use a software temp monitor, run it in the background, and check the max temp. If you never hit TJmax for your CPU, you are golden and might even be able to lower RPMS. If you hit TJmax, you might want to increase the RPM, but first do a bit more research - resest the monitor right before gaming or other high CPU load task, then check during and immediately after - if the average temperature is too close to TJmax, you might need more/bigger cooling, less voltage, better case air flow, etc.

You can also use software to control fan speeds. There is at least one app I've used in the past that allowed for very complex curves and sources, including GPU. So I could have my bottom intakes that blow directly into my GPU only ramp up when the GPU got hot, while my AIO responded to CPU, etc.

*BIOS doesn't not read CPU temps directly, but rather from a senser in/near/below the socket. Software like HWiNFO64 will read it directly.

**It's near-impossible to damage a modern CPU via high temperatures as long as you don't adjust the protection settings in the BIOS. The CPU will simply downclock if it gets too hot.

***Mobos tend to push way too much voltage to CPUs by default. You can often use a negative voltage offset in the BIOS for vcore to reduce temps/power consumption and/or improve performance. Be sure to test for stability should you go this route.

****Mobos also tend to enable things like Multi-core Enhancement or PBO which may provide a very small performance increase in exchange for a large increase in power consumption and heat. I think PBO for AMD is nearly useless, except for the curve optimizer.
 

Jovec

?
829
407
Cant you just use an old copy of windows 11 and keep bypassing?
Should work, since the installer doesn't update itself while running (or cannot, without internet access), but presumably the next step will be to force users to create the Microsoft account after installation when using the OS rather than just the continuous suggesting and nagging like it does now.
 

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,826
1,852
Ive always bought a key and downloaded an older copy anyways. F being forced to make an account!
 
  • 1Truth!
Reactions: 1 user

Lambourne

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,085
7,311
Jump on the windows 10 LTSC IoT train.

No ms store, no ads, no ms account, no constant feature "upgrades", security updates until 2032. Check the PC Building General or FWT threads on 4chan's /g board.