Desktop Computers

Jovec

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The GTX 590 is 3 years old ($700 at launch). If it is already "starting to fade" then the same nvidia card youjustrecommended on the last page, the GTX 770, is starting to fade too. Sure do like spending $300 for a card that is already dated, whew.
The 590 is a dual GPU card and top-end for that gen (launched at $700 in Mar '11) and is losing to what is effectively a 280x (the 7970 GE, launched Jun '12 for $500, now $250-$300). And that's not taking into account any SLI issues or games defaulting to a single GPU.

There is definitely a price premium for the 290x/780ti, and I'd consider going 2x290 or 2x780 instead for a real performance gain.
 

jeydax

Death and Taxes
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The 590 is a dual GPU card and top-end for that gen (launched at $700 in 3/11)...
Thanks, I just pointed out when it launched and how much it costs in my previous post.

...and is losing to what is effectively a 280x (the 7970 GE, launched 6/12 for $500, now $250-$300).
Uh... yeah. "Losing".By 2 FPS. 3.85%. The 280X is slower than the 7970 GE by 1% so let's call it a 2.85% difference between the 590 and 280X. The 280X was $300 at launch (most of them still are $300) and is virtually the same (ok, ok, < 3% faster) as a card that was released over 2.5 years earlier. Thanks for proving my point again though.

And that's not taking into account any SLI issues or games defaulting to a single GPU.
I'm pulling this one out of my butt but I'm guessing there are limited issues nowadays from the 590 because the drivers were fixed rather quickly for it from what I recall.

I'd almost say a better argument would have been pointing out that the 580, released 11/9/2010 for $500~, was 17.5% slower than the 760, released 2 years 8 months afterwards for half the cost. But the 780 Ti is a 20% step above the 780 in this generation so two years down the line it will likely be on par with a $250-$275 960 or whatever the fuck it is by that point. I don't know, but the math seems right.

Not sure why I've argued this this much tbh, I just had too much time on my hands today. We're all just trying to help a bro pick the right parts.
 

Jysin

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,804
4,936
I think the key point is he is only gaming at 1080p. THAT is why the 780 Ti is just ridiculous. NOTHING he is playing is going to tax that card. Why throw that money away? Joeboo's advice is solid. Save a few hundred bucks and get the R9 (while still maxing settings at 1080p) and have money down the line to upgrade the GPU when needed.
 

Jovec

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IDK. Today's 590 is the $3,000 Titan Z or $1,500 295. Even the 690 was $1,000. The GPU market has changed in the last 4 years, mainly due to the cost of new process nodes (no more cost savings). There is a premium for flagship cards like the 290x/780ti, and these cards are never the price/performance sweet spots. It's not like 290x/780ti suddenly make unplayable games playable. 780vsTitan (effectively a 780ti) from that graph show +3 min, +5 avg FPS gain.

A pair ofthese 290sruns $740 with $20 MIR, and willcrush a 780ti(AT didn't have 290 CF, but290x non-uber mode is close to 290).

It also depends on priorities. I'd probably trade up to 512GB SSD by going down to a 290/780. Or if a new OS, keyboard, mouse, speakers, or monitor need to be priced in.

And damn that pcpartpicker site. Nearly gave me a heart attack when I priced out my system.
 

jeydax

Death and Taxes
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I think the key point is he is only gaming at 1080p. THAT is why the 780 Ti is just ridiculous. NOTHING he is playing is going to tax that card. Why throw that money away? Joeboo's advice is solid. Save a few hundred bucks and get the R9 (while still maxing settings at 1080p) and have money down the line to upgrade the GPU when needed.
Witcher 3 is likely going to butt-fuck that 290/280X/770 andwilltax the 780 Ti. It is unlikely he'll be able to play it comfortably at 1080p on Ultra (or possibly even high settings). The money isn't being thrown away. The card will likely last 1.5 years longer, we've established that. Yes, joeboo's advice is solid. He normally has good advice. With current games at 1080p a 780 Ti is overkill in the fact that you can comfortably get 60+ FPS easily in nearly every game, sure 'nuff (and you can't say the same for the 290, COH2 as an example). Trust me, I know. I have a 780 Ti myself and I game at 1920x1200. But that will only last for a few more months once the next generation of games start popping up. I just happen to disagree with him on this one because of that fact.

The only thing I don't like about the 780 Ti is the limited amount of memory.

TrainWreck1.gif
 

Crone

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
9,714
3,211
Holy fucks, this arguement seems kind of dumb. Both make very valid points, but I side pretty much with jeydax in that he wanted $1500 build. Joeboo makes a very excellent point, that if he wants to spend less money now, he could go with a different card, and save money. I'm personally in the camp of spending $300~ every couple years, than $700 every 2-3? but if I had money to spend, and didn't mind, having those kick ass specs for the first 2 years would be bad ass.

Now, usually the arguement goes towards skipping the 780 Ti, and putting that $300 into more RAM, better processor, monitors, or something else. I didn't look at the computer you linked jeydax, but are there other upgrades that he could go with, using that $300?
 

jeydax

Death and Taxes
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Holy fucks, this arguement seems kind of dumb. Both make very valid points, but I side pretty much with jeydax in that he wanted $1500 build. Joeboo makes a very excellent point, that if he wants to spend less money now, he could go with a different card, and save money. I'm personally in the camp of spending $300~ every couple years, than $700 every 2-3? but if I had money to spend, and didn't mind, having those kick ass specs for the first 2 years would be bad ass.

Now, usually the arguement goes towards skipping the 780 Ti, and putting that $300 into more RAM, better processor, monitors, or something else. I didn't look at the computer you linked jeydax, but are there other upgrades that he could go with, using that $300?
Nothing that would improve his in game FPS. He just purchased a new monitor but I have no idea of his other peripherals.

CPU: Not worth upgrading. Technically could save money on this by downgrading and not losing much more than 1-3 FPS (seehere,here, andherefor examples).

CPU Cooler: Devils Canyon isn't nearly as hot as Haswell 1.0. No need to cool more than the 212 can at modest OC levels.

RAM: 8 GB is plenty for gaming. 2133 is already faster than what he needs but the price is the same as 1600.

SSD: Enough space for main games and programs. Plenty fast. Faster drives will negligibly improve game load speeds to an extent but not worth upgrading.

HDD: Enough space for modest amounts of storage as well as secondary games. Plenty fast. Faster drives will not increase FPS. Storage is totally subject to the individual. More can be added down the road.

Case: Left that blank, this won't have any effect on the speed of the actual computer unless he builds it in an empty gatorade bottle.

PSU: Already more than powerful enough. Will be capable of adding a second 780 Ti to run SLI if wanted down the line.

TLDR: Nope.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,859
8,265
I imagine that there are few gamers who upgrade to a new GPU generation every time they have to dip their settings below 'Ultra'. The majority probably upgrade whenever a particularly interesting title comes out that they want to run very well/can't run at all with their current rig.
 

Zodiac

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,200
14
I'd spend the extra on an i7 if you really wanted to make it close to 1500. Get the $300 gpu now and hold out for the 4-5gb cards next year since apparently we will need them if watch_dogs is any indication.

This is coming from the guy with an i5 and sli 780s btw.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,859
8,265
Ya, I'd sooner go balls out on a CPU than buy a 780ti for 1080p gaming. It's just so overkill. Well... Unless you like 120hz gaming.
 

jeydax

Death and Taxes
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Why the hell would you do/suggest that for a gaming build?

Here are more reasons why upgrading a CPU over an i5-XXXXK for 1080p gaming is silly:Bioshock,Skyrim,Metro, and the reviewsIndexwith an average of less than 2% when OC'd and just a hair over 2% difference at stock between an i5-2500K (2.5 generations old, January 2011, originally $216) and an i7-4770K (0.5 generations old, June 2013, originally $339). Going from a 4690k to a 4790k is a $100 difference for less than 2% gain.One more link for giggles and car keys.Pentium G3258, a $75 CPU, runs just as fast as a 4690K at stock in BF4, WoW, Tomb Raider and a few other games when OC'd.There is a 1 FPS difference between a i5-3470 and i7-4770kand only 3 FPS slower than the i7-4960X in Thief.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,859
8,265
Why the hell would you do/suggest that for a gaming build?

Here are more reasons why upgrading a CPU over an i5-XXXXK for 1080p gaming is silly:Bioshock,Skyrim,Metro, and the reviewsIndexwith an average of less than 2% when OC'd and just a hair over 2% difference at stock between an i5-2500K (2.5 generations old, January 2011, originally $216) and an i7-4770K (0.5 generations old, June 2013, originally $339). Going from a 4690k to a 4790k is a $100 difference for less than 2% gain.One more link for giggles and car keys.Pentium G3258, a $75 CPU, runs just as fast as a 4690K at stock in BF4, WoW, Tomb Raider and a few other games when OC'd.
Well, sounds silly... But the hyperthreading thing may start becoming important once next gen consoles really take off. If he went R9 290 and went balls out on a top of the line i7 he probably wouldn't need a new CPU for like 6 years... Maybe longer. Then in 2 years sell the 290 for $150 and put it towards whatever $mid-enthusiast ($350) value card exists at that time.

If hyperthreading becomes important, you may see i5s take a huge performance drop in the coming years.
 

Zodiac

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,200
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Mostly for other applications imo. As far as gaming goes, if you take/encode any game play video or do any twitch streaming the i7 had benefits there for sure.
 

Crone

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
9,714
3,211
I have an i5-2500k, and it's not OC'ed at all. I learned recently when I was getting an itch to upgrade, that there really was no point. My video card is a radeon 6950 2gb, so that 's getting a bit long in the tooth, but my processor I feel is going to last me a really long time.

I find it weird, that in the fast paced world of PC parts, that a processor would be relevant for so long, but I'm not complaining.
smile.png
 

jeydax

Death and Taxes
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If hyperthreading becomes important, you may see i5s take a huge performance drop in the coming years.
There are a few games that support hyperthreading now. For example, Crysis 3, which shows a 2 FPS difference between an i5-2500k and i7-2600K. Andthis chartshowing a 1 FPS difference between a i5-3470 and i7-4770k at 1080p, medium-high settings, AA on low.Here is anothershowing a measly 4 FPS between an i5-3470 and i7-3770k at 1920x1200 on Medium settings. I've heard conflicting things on WATCH_DOGS using HT but it is an AAA game that was released already 6 months into the next gen consolesand doesn't see an improvement by getting a CPU with hyperthreadingor upgrading from an i5 to i7. I'll test the game tonight with HT and without HT just for fun.

That is sort of a valid point, but a total guess. Even games now that utilize HT see a negligible difference. Where as a $100 in difference in GPU going from an R9 280X ($300~) to a R9 270X ($200~) will result in a 15-24%~ increase in FPS depending on the game (24% increase across the board on the 1080p index according to TomsHardware).
 

jeydax

Death and Taxes
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960
Mostly for other applications imo. As far as gaming goes, if you take/encode any game play video or do any twitch streaming the i7 had benefits there for sure.
Twitch streaming + gaming would benefit, correct. Encoding while gaming would benefit, yes. Simply watching a video while gaming would be negligible difference. And the GPU would still give a greater benefit still in all but a couple games.
 

jeydax

Death and Taxes
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I'm not that great at budget builds. My brother has a 650 Ti Boost but his extremely old motherboard/CPU is finally shitting out on him. I have a $500-550 budget to upgrade his CPU/Motherboard/RAM/Case/SSD/HDD/Case/PSU to play League of Legends, browse the interwebs, and possibly some other light games. He knows he doesn't need to spend that much but told me to get him the best I could for that 500-500 range.

I quick threw this together today... thoughts?

Intel Core i3-4360, Gigabyte GeForce GTX 650 Ti, NZXT Source 210 Window - System Build - PCPartPicker

Also saw this on sale today for $30, think it'll be enough to power that rig? -Corsair CS450M 450W 80+ Gold Modular Power Supply
 

brekk

Dancing Dino Superstar
<Bronze Donator>
2,197
1,758
Budget of 1500, doesn't mean he has to spend every cent. Flagship cards are a shitty investment. Period.
 

spronk

FPS noob
23,825
29,072
this monitor is amaaaaazing, i think i might buy one. 1440p 27" that does up to 144hz and has gSync, reviews started trickling out. $799 msrp. The one on amazon is NOT gSync enabled I believe, just the regular version.




Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 144hz G-Sync Monitor (w/ GTX 780Ti ROG Matrix) | KitGuru - Part 9

4k gSync monitors are going to be coming out next year too, this is TN but 8 bit TN (vs 6 bit TN for most) and the 4k panels are going to be IPS. There is something called active Sync too though which is coming out and this doesn't support it. decisions, decisions
 

Joeboo

Molten Core Raider
8,157
140
Then I guess the question becomes, do you have a rig that can push 1440p graphics into the 100+ FPS range on average to make it worthwhile? I wish I did...