Desktop Computers

T

Therage

Vyemm Raider
875
3,969
Ok so I haven't built a pc in a long time (about 10 years). But I recently replaced my video card and would like to get a better pc going. Any suggestions for some bargin building? (have a gtx 770 so vid card is gtg)
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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Whats your budget?

Also any other components you want to reuse? How bout windows? Already have a copy of at least win 7?
 
jeffvader

jeffvader

it's only castles burning
402
33
thank you again - sorry to be a pain but i really want to understand this.

the thing is, i only want to use 1 hdmi out to my reciever/plasma tv monitor. that's it for hdmi.

then one dvi from my gpu to my gaming monitor.

i'm really starting to wonder why gaminf motherboards have audio at all.

i have an email chain going with asrock support; here it is so far, read from the bottom up...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Garrett
Date: Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: AsRock Z87 extreme4 - No hdmi out recognized when I use my own gpu
To: John <[email protected]/* <![CDATA[ */!function(t,e,r,n,c,a,p){try{t=document.currentScript||function(){for(t=document.getElementsByTagName('script'),e=t.length;e--;)if(t[e].getAttribute('data-cfhash'))return t[e]}();if(t&&(c=t.previousSibling:emoji_nose:{p=t.parentNode;if(a=c.getAttribute('data-cfemail':emoji_nose:{for(e='',r='0x'+a.substr(0,2)|0,n=2;a.length-n;n+=2)e+='%'+('0'+('0x'+a.substr(n,2)^r).toString(16:emoji_nose:.slice(-2);p.replaceChild(document.createTextNode(decodeURIComponent(e:emoji_nose:,c)}p.removeChild(t)}}catch(u){}}()/* ]]> */>
Cc:[email protected]/* <![CDATA[ */!function(t,e,r,n,c,a,p){try{t=document.currentScript||function(){for(t=document.getElementsByTagName('script'),e=t.length;e--;)if(t[e].getAttribute('data-cfhash'))return t[e]}();if(t&&(c=t.previousSibling:emoji_nose:{p=t.parentNode;if(a=c.getAttribute('data-cfemail':emoji_nose:{for(e='',r='0x'+a.substr(0,2)|0,n=2;a.length-n;n+=2)e+='%'+('0'+('0x'+a.substr(n,2)^r).toString(16:emoji_nose:.slice(-2);p.replaceChild(document.createTextNode(decodeURIComponent(e:emoji_nose:,c)}p.removeChild(t)}}catch(u){}}()/* ]]> */


Thank you - can you clarify why that is the case? I would like to understand. My receiver passes through to my plasma tv monitor. Thank you very much.


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:37 PM, John <[email protected]/* <![CDATA[ */!function(t,e,r,n,c,a,p){try{t=document.currentScript||function(){for(t=document.getElementsByTagName('script'),e=t.length;e--;)if(t[e].getAttribute('data-cfhash'))return t[e]}();if(t&&(c=t.previousSibling:emoji_nose:{p=t.parentNode;if(a=c.getAttribute('data-cfemail':emoji_nose:{for(e='',r='0x'+a.substr(0,2)|0,n=2;a.length-n;n+=2)e+='%'+('0'+('0x'+a.substr(n,2)^r).toString(16:emoji_nose:.slice(-2);p.replaceChild(document.createTextNode(decodeURIComponent(e:emoji_nose:,c)}p.removeChild(t)}}catch(u){}}()/* ]]> */> wrote:

Hi Garrett,

Unfortunately, onboard HDMI output must be plugged to monitor. It would not be worked if plug to receiver.

Thank you



ASRock America Support Team



From: Garrett
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 11:32 AM
To: John
Cc:[email protected]/* <![CDATA[ */!function(t,e,r,n,c,a,p){try{t=document.currentScript||function(){for(t=document.getElementsByTagName('script'),e=t.length;e--;)if(t[e].getAttribute('data-cfhash'))return t[e]}();if(t&&(c=t.previousSibling:emoji_nose:{p=t.parentNode;if(a=c.getAttribute('data-cfemail':emoji_nose:{for(e='',r='0x'+a.substr(0,2)|0,n=2;a.length-n;n+=2)e+='%'+('0'+('0x'+a.substr(n,2)^r).toString(16:emoji_nose:.slice(-2);p.replaceChild(document.createTextNode(decodeURIComponent(e:emoji_nose:,c)}p.removeChild(t)}}catch(u){}}()/* ]]> */
Subject: Re: AsRock Z87 extreme4 - No hdmi out recognized when I use my own gpu



Thank you for the reply - to clarify - it is normal for the hdmi in BIOS to not show that it is enabled?

Also, will hdmi out from my gpu and from my motherboard both utilize the extreme4's audio? What I want to do is use dvi from my gpu for the monitor and hdmi from the extreme4 to my audio receiver for sound and movies on my plasma tv - but maybe it doesn't matter which hdmi goes to my receiver? So is it worth enabling iGPU to do this or is my gpu hdmi out using the extreme4 audio?

Thank you again for your reply.



On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:25 PM, John <[email protected]/* <![CDATA[ */!function(t,e,r,n,c,a,p){try{t=document.currentScript||function(){for(t=document.getElementsByTagName('script'),e=t.length;e--;)if(t[e].getAttribute('data-cfhash'))return t[e]}();if(t&&(c=t.previousSibling:emoji_nose:{p=t.parentNode;if(a=c.getAttribute('data-cfemail':emoji_nose:{for(e='',r='0x'+a.substr(0,2)|0,n=2;a.length-n;n+=2)e+='%'+('0'+('0x'+a.substr(n,2)^r).toString(16:emoji_nose:.slice(-2);p.replaceChild(document.createTextNode(decodeURIComponent(e:emoji_nose:,c)}p.removeChild(t)}}catch(u){}}()/* ]]> */> wrote:

Hi Garrett,

If VGA card is installed onboard VGA will be disabled.

However, onboard VGA can be enabled while using discrete VGA card at BIOS, Advanced, Chipset Configuration, iGPU multi monitor [Enable].

Note: if enable iGPU or onboard VGA will share the system memory.

Thank you



ASRock America Support Team



From: Garrett
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 10:11 AM
To:[email protected]/* <![CDATA[ */!function(t,e,r,n,c,a,p){try{t=document.currentScript||function(){for(t=document.getElementsByTagName('script'),e=t.length;e--;)if(t[e].getAttribute('data-cfhash'))return t[e]}();if(t&&(c=t.previousSibling:emoji_nose:{p=t.parentNode;if(a=c.getAttribute('data-cfemail':emoji_nose:{for(e='',r='0x'+a.substr(0,2)|0,n=2;a.length-n;n+=2)e+='%'+('0'+('0x'+a.substr(n,2)^r).toString(16:emoji_nose:.slice(-2);p.replaceChild(document.createTextNode(decodeURIComponent(e:emoji_nose:,c)}p.removeChild(t)}}catch(u){}}()/* ]]> */
Subject: AsRock Z87 extreme4 - No hdmi out recognized when I use my own gpu

Hi, if I plug my hdmi out (to my receiver) into the AsRock Z87 extreme4 and look in the BIOS, it is not showing anything plugged into it. I am using an evga gtx570. Is this normal? Thank you very much.
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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Because motherboard still processes the sound. It has a specific chipset for sound, your video card does not it. The sound simply passes through your video card. To test this, uninstall your motherboards sound drivers and see if the audio works when HDMI is plugged into your video card....It does not.

Now, some video cards have post processing for sound like AMDs smart sound. But you still need the motherboard to pre-process the sound and send it to your video card.


rrr_img_62998.jpg


This is what processes the sound on your PC. Not the video card. I think you are confusing the video with the audio.

The reason your HDMI on your motherboard does not work, its because the on-board video is disabled once a video card is plugged in. But your motherboard still has to process the sound, and then it just sends it through the video card.
 
T

Therage

Vyemm Raider
875
3,969
Was thinking somewhere around 500-700ish. No I don't have a copy of windows other than this harddrive. I can get one though on the cheap from school. Also this tower has a 650W PSU to reuse. Unless I need something bigger. Would like to replace this HD with a SSD at some point too.
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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PCPartPicker part list/Price breakdown by merchant/Benchmarks

CPU:Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor($219.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler:Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler($29.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard:ASRock Z87 Extreme3 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard($109.99 @ Micro Center)
Memory:Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage:Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk($114.99 @ Best Buy)
Case:Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply:SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply($82.99 @ Mwave)
Optical Drive:Samsung SH-224DB/RSBS DVD/CD Writer($24.99 @ Amazon)
Total:$711.93
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-03-19 16:01 EDT-0400)

You could reuse the power supply, but I would not risk it. If your PC is 5+ yrs old, this new one deserves a fresh power supply. Why risk $1000 of stuff with an old power supply?
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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For that 770? Yeah. But if you wanna go bigger, by all means. If its 3 yrs old though, you might be able to reuse it. Most power supplies go for 6+ yrs if they are good ones.
 
Joeboo

Joeboo

Molten Core Raider
8,157
140
jeffvader, using HDMI from your video card to go to your TV, + DVI from your video card to go to your monitor will work just fine. You can have both displays running simultaneously and the TV will receive sound via HDMI just fine.

Almost all video cards nowadays can output video to 2 sources or more simultaneously. You'll be able to set them up either as mirrored(exact copy) displays, or as 1 big extended desktop, or as 2 separate desktops.

Just don't use the HDMI from your motherboard, you can't use that AND the DVI from your video card. Basically all video needs to come from the motherboard, or all video from the video card, and the video card can support dual displays no problem. You just can't mix motherboard video + video card video, it's all one or all the other.

Sound, however, you can mix as long as the sound isn't coming through 2 different HDMIs. You can have sound via your video card HDMI, and then also simultaneous sound via your motherboards optical and 3.5mm jacks, all of those will output sound at the same time. You just can't use video card + motherboard HDMI for sound, because one or the other will be disabled, depending on which graphics processor is active(integrated or add-on card)

My computer for instance, I have 2 monitors, both hooked up via HDMI from my video card. Both monitors actually have internal speakers(even though I don't use them) so both monitors receive sound. I also have sound going from the 3.5mm jack on my motherboard to my computer speakers. I also have sound going from my USB port to my headphones. All the sound is simultaneous, I could have all devices active at once and have 4 devices pumping out the same sound. The sound is going to work from all sources EXCEPT a 2nd HDMI feed from your motherboard, since the HDMI is active on the video cards instead.
 
Jovec

Jovec

?
838
412
mkopec_sl said:
Because motherboard still processes the sound. It has a specific chipset for sound, your video card does not it. The sound simply passes through your video card. To test this, uninstall your motherboards sound drivers and see if the audio works when HDMI is plugged into your video card....It does not.

Now, some video cards have post processing for sound like AMDs smart sound. But you still need the motherboard to pre-process the sound and send it to your video card.


rrr_img_62998.jpg


This is what processes the sound on your PC. Not the video card. I think you are confusing the video with the audio.

The reason your HDMI on your motherboard does not work, its because the on-board video is disabled once a video card is plugged in. But your motherboard still has to process the sound, and then it just sends it through the video card.
Click to expand...
All modern Intel CPUs with IGPs and AMD APUs (but not the FX line) have dedicated hardware audio processing built-in. All modern AMD (since 4000) and Nvidia GPUs (since 500) have hardware audio processing built-in. IOW, they are sound cards. This is separate from motherboard audio and there is no signal passing back and forth. You can disable the motherboard audio and it will not effect IGP or GPU audio at all.

The confusion comes from which audio sources can be used with each video source:

1) You can always use motherboard audio regardless of the IGP/GPU in use, but are limited to analog (3.5mm stereo mini) or digital Toslink or SPDIF. The motherboard may not have every connector on the rear I/O panel, but will usually have the right headers internally so you can add them.

2) To use the IGP or GPU audio, you must be using an HDMI cable. The IGP or GPU will not process audio that is then passed to the motherboard audio outputs.

(The Nvidia 400 series of GPUs IIRC had spdif input headers which could be connected to the motherboard spdif output headers which then allowed that audio to be outputed via HDMI. This was because the 400 series didn't have built-in audio.)
 
Jovec

Jovec

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838
412
joeboo_sl said:
You just can't mix motherboard video + video card video, it's all one or all the other.
Click to expand...
Yes, you can with Win7 or higher and some use it to keep the GPU at 2D clocks on multi-monitor setups.

joeboo_sl said:
My computer for instance, I have 2 monitors, both hooked up via HDMI from my video card. Both monitors actually have internal speakers(even though I don't use them) so both monitors receive sound. I also have sound going from the 3.5mm jack on my motherboard to my computer speakers. I also have sound going from my USB port to my headphones. All the sound is simultaneous, I could have all devices active at once and have 4 devices pumping out the same sound. The sound is going to work from all sources EXCEPT a 2nd HDMI feed from your motherboard, since the HDMI is active on the video cards instead.
Click to expand...
This differs from my understanding that each audio device is separate and will not output the same audio - that is, you could have game audio on your motherboard device and assign Skype audio to your USB headset, but could not have the game audio on both your motherboard and USB at the same time. I know Realtek audio can be configured to output simultaneously to the rear and front panel connectors but that is a single audio device.
 
Joeboo

Joeboo

Molten Core Raider
8,157
140
Jovec_sl said:
Yes, you can with Win7 or higher and some use to to keep the GPU at 2D clocks or multi-monitor setups.
Click to expand...
I guess what I meant to say, is that I don't believe the HDMI port from the video card, and the motherboard HDMI port will ever both work simultenously. Sure you can use the video card + integrated GPU simultaneously, but I don't believe you'll get an HDMI feed from both. Like when you have SLI/Crossfire video cards, the HDMI ports only work on the primary card, you can't send a video feed out of 2 separate cards simultenously.
 
Jovec

Jovec

?
838
412
joeboo_sl said:
I guess what I meant to say, is that I don't believe the HDMI port from the video card, and the motherboard HDMI port will ever both work simultenously. Sure you can use the video card + integrated GPU simultaneously, but I don't believe you'll get an HDMI feed from both. Like when you have SLI/Crossfire video cards, the HDMI ports only work on the primary card, you can't send a video feed out of 2 separate cards simultenously.
Click to expand...
They will as they are considered completely separate video devices. They will not mirror, but you can extend.

Edit: And for clarification, GPU processing power isn't shared either. You can't have your discrete GPU render a game that is then outputed to the monitor connected to the IGP.
 
S

Silence_sl

shitlord
2,459
5
Updated Haswell K parts coming this summer, with new TIM and other, unknown improvements.

Also, an unlocked Pentium for cheap gaming rigs coming at the same time.

The next E line will be 8 cores.
 
Jovec

Jovec

?
838
412
Groover_sl said:
That's not entirely true. At least with Sandy Bridge, intel licensed lucid virtu (or whatever it was called) so you could do just that. Desktop junk was handled by the igpu, while more intensive stuff was left to the discrete gpu - all through the motherboard's connector. Besides the obvious advantages, and probably the whole reason for it - one could utilize Quicksync with just one display and discrete graphics. The problem was that it came with a performance hit and had some bugs; no one really gave a shit about it. I'm pretty sure with win8 you can enable Quicksync without all the nonsense so I'm guessing it got dropped.
Click to expand...
The original Virtu plan was to allow disparate GPUs to be leveraged together in a multi-GPU rendering situation. In theory one could have an AMD GPU, Nvidia GPU, and the IGP all working together in a SLI/Xfire fashion. They demoed this but I don't think it ever was a viable product.

Virtu then changed direction to allow Quicksync to be used with discrete GPUs. One would connect the monitor to the motherboard outputs, but the discrete GPU would be used for 3D rendering (with the IGP for 2D/idle), passing the ouput to the IGP to be sent to the monitor. I'm not sure if this Virtu is even around for Haswell.

This is not what I'm talking about though. You can simply have multiple video cards in a computer that are not in SLI or Xfire, of which the IGP can be one. Last I did this was with SB, AMD, and Win7 so I just played around with it on HW, NV, and Win8 and here is what I can tell.

If you enable multi-monitor support in the BIOS for the IGP, with one HDMI from the IGP and a second HDMI from the discrete, I could not mirror the displays. I could extend them across both. 3D rendering (probably all rendering) was done by my discrete regardless of which display I was gaming on (verified by GPU clocks and FPS). This behavior differs from what I recall on Win7 with SB and AMD where rendering was controlled by the GPU the monitor was attached to. If you disable multi-monitor support and force the IGP to be the default device, you can then get the IGP to render.

The whole thing is really convoluted and I'm hard-pressed to find a usage case that beats simply using your discrete(s) for all monitors unless you need to run 4 or 6 monitors for info displays.
 
Louis

Louis

Trakanon Raider
2,836
1,106
So about two years ago I got super antsy one weekend and decided to go get a computer at bestbuy. I was sick of playing DotA on my work laptop and it was completely impulsive. I went in there with 0 knowledge of the market at the time not knowing what was good or bad. After 2 years I'm now fed up with the system I have because it just doesn't meet my expectations.

It's an asus box with an AMD A4 3420 2.8mhz, GeForce GT 520 video card, 4 gigs of ram, normal hd. After researching the parts afterwards, I realized that the cpu and vc are shit. My question is can I get by, by replacing the graphics card, cpu, and 4 more gigs of ram or am I sol at this point and gotta start all over? I only play DotA (on the shittiest specs), stream movies/tv over plex, and watch porn.
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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Its pretty crappy for 2 yrs ago, mind me asking how much you paid for it?

You could try and get a new graphics card and plugging it in and checking it out, but you are CPU bound with that shitty proc. More ram would slightly improve, but not much over 4 gigs. Hope you learned your lesson.

rrr_img_63133.png

rrr_img_63134.png
 
Joeboo

Joeboo

Molten Core Raider
8,157
140
Yeah, while most video cards are going to perform 99% the same regardless of which "modern" processor you have, that A4 wouldn't be in that category, it's going to bottleneck you pretty bad. Time to start over with a new build if you want to come close to playing new games on high settings.
 
Louis

Louis

Trakanon Raider
2,836
1,106
The lesson has definitely been learned. My work laptop (dell e6520) kept overheating while playing dota. It happened one saturday, I freaked out, and just went purchase this shit like an idiot. I paid about $400-$500 for it. Guess it's just going to turn into a glorified media center for my living room.
 
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