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Muligan

Muligan

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First impressions for me are very strong...
  • The world felt much more Diablo than 3 did my first time playing
  • Difficulty was challenging and I hope they don’t need it. I felt almost this EQ desire to get better gear. Not an item score drive but a bit more
  • The shared world was a huge improvement imo. Nice steal from Lost Ark I guess but an obvious evolution for Diablo and past due
  • Combat was pretty awesome. Sorcerer felt a little op but the skill tree was simple enough. Actually I feel games in Diablo and Lost Ark genre are unnecessarily complex. You eventually get used to it but I felt everything in Diablo was about right and intuitive​


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I hope they can figure out how to not make Op builds that you look up and you just roll meta but instead more freedom with item, bonuses, combos, etc. that work with a little theory crafting. D3 was decent at that but not great.

I stumbled onto this article and actually ran into several folks that seemed to be experiencing their first MMO. It felt a little nostalgic with folks figuring things out, facing the unexpected, and simply exploring. I didn’t think that was possible anymore…
I didn't expect Diablo 4 to be my next MMO
 
Cinge

Cinge

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Muligan said:
I hope they can figure out how to not make Op builds that you look up and you just roll meta but instead more freedom with item, bonuses, combos, etc. that work with a little theory crafting. D3 was decent at that but not great.
Click to expand...

This is just wishful thinking imo. Almost any genre now is picked a part to the very bone, and then its posted everywhere on what builds/items/combinations are the best.

If you really want this, dont look a single thing up about a game you are playing, and do all the theorycrafting and experimenting on your own. Self control is the only way you are getting it.
 
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mkopec

mkopec

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POE is great but it just suffers from tons of bloat at this point and its too complex for its own good.. It so tiresome re-learing all the shit if you skip a few leagues if you just wanna play a league here and there. I do look forward to POE 2 and a clean slate though.
 
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Kuro

Kuro

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Reading the last 3-4 pages, I may be retarded but my preferred way to play Diablo is the 2-3 button builds people are complaining about. These are my brain off and vibe as I Zeal/Fana through a million mooks for hours games.
 
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Mist

Mist

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mkopec said:
POE is great but it just suffers from tons of bloat at this point and its too complex for its own good.. It so tiresome re-learing all the shit if you skip a few leagues if you just wanna play a league here and there. I do look forward to POE 2 and a clean slate though.
Click to expand...
When the atlas got super complicated I just fucking quit. Learning the optimal sextant bullshit was harder than stuff I have to learn for my actual job, so I didn't.
 
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mkopec

mkopec

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Mist said:
When the atlas got super complicated I just fucking quit. Learning the optimal sextant bullshit was harder than stuff I have to learn for my actual job, so I didn't.
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Its great for the no lifer POE try hard nerds that play it non stop league after league. But this is why the game will never be mainstream, its just too complex for its own good. Normies just wanna log on and play not learn a fucking encyclopedia worth of infos. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Hardcore people like that need niche games like POE.

My kid tried to play it with his buddies a few times, I dont thnk they ever got past act 6-7 before attention focused away from it, lol.
 
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Khane

Khane

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Not sure why you'd want more active skills in an ARPG. It's supposed to fast paced, hectic, action combat. The more you bloat the combat the worse it feels just by the nature of the core game mechanics.
 
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Penance

Penance

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You guys just haven't played ARPGs with pedals yet. You'll learn.
 
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Juvarisx

Juvarisx

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Penance said:
You guys just haven't played ARPGs with pedals yet. You'll learn.
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They built out a UI and system to play Diablo 4 with a controller relatively well to the point where moving around with a control stick is far easier then clicking everywhere precisely. Hell PoE did it with their console versions as well. There is nothing wrong with that considering both games have a limited number of abilities to use that can be bound to a modern controller amount of buttons. I found it easier to use a controller for D4 as well, but most streamers using kb/m to great effect.

I will forever love PoE but its become overwhelming bloat on top of limited skills that can do all content, and a lot of the ones that can are terrible. PoE 2 cant come quick enough at this point.

D4 was a fun beta to participate in for the cost of a Doubledown, and I will try out the open one to play a druid since that looks appealing. Yes a Blizzard game is fun again oh no it was bound to happen.

Will the end game hold up? Thats the ultimate question. They are taking queues from PoE maps so its a step in the right direction, Rifts sucked adding difficulty around class and skills is the way to go and they seemed to figure that out, so its a wait and see. Maybe it will suck and everyone willg o play the newest PoE league that totally fucks everyhting like Heist did or maybe not. There are options in the genre which were non existent for the most part for D3 when it released, and they know it.
 
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Deathwing

Deathwing

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mkopec said:
POE is great but it just suffers from tons of bloat at this point and its too complex for its own good.. It so tiresome re-learing all the shit if you skip a few leagues if you just wanna play a league here and there. I do look forward to POE 2 and a clean slate though.
Click to expand...
Got some bad news for you and that "clean slate". PoE2 is not a new game. Some bloat will hopefully be removed, but it's essentially a new campaign tacked onto the current game with some of the archaic systems like gems socketing into gear being reworked.
Mist said:
When the atlas got super complicated I just fucking quit. Learning the optimal sextant bullshit was harder than stuff I have to learn for my actual job, so I didn't.
Click to expand...
Sextant blocking was removed a long time ago. It was super gay and I never did it. A lot of the try hard shit is NOT necessary. FOMO is a powerful bitch but current day PoE overrewards the player. I'm an inefficient farmer to a degree that would offend a good chunk of the PoE thread but I still make more than enough currency just playing the damn game in pursuit of what actually interests me: cool interactions and builds.

Yes, the startup time on PoE is ridiculous and daunting. I absolutely do not blame anyone that gets choice paralysis trying out PoE. But if you've already made it over that hump like you have, now is a great time to come back to PoE and explore those meme spectral throw builds.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Deathwing said:
Got some bad news for you and that "clean slate". PoE2 is not a new game. Some bloat will hopefully be removed, but it's essentially a new campaign tacked onto the current game with some of the archaic systems like gems socketing into gear being reworked.
Click to expand...
Well then thats a dumb idea. What a waste of a perfect opportunity to reboot the whole thing.
 
Juvarisx

Juvarisx

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Deathwing said:
Got some bad news for you and that "clean slate". PoE2 is not a new game. Some bloat will hopefully be removed, but it's essentially a new campaign tacked onto the current game with some of the archaic systems like gems socketing into gear being reworked.

Sextant blocking was removed a long time ago. It was super gay and I never did it. A lot of the try hard shit is NOT necessary. FOMO is a powerful bitch but current day PoE overrewards the player. I'm an inefficient farmer to a degree that would offend a good chunk of the PoE thread but I still make more than enough currency just playing the damn game in pursuit of what actually interests me: cool interactions and builds.

Yes, the startup time on PoE is ridiculous and daunting. I absolutely do not blame anyone that gets choice paralysis trying out PoE. But if you've already made it over that hump like you have, now is a great time to come back to PoE and explore those meme spectral throw builds.
Click to expand...

I know you are a avid ARPG player so I wont discount what you are saying but I will add this. If you are to sit down someone and say try this game Path of Exile. No you are not allowed to use YouTube guides or visit the forum, how far realistlcy do you think they will get? GGG themselves fully admitted the vast majority of the playerbase never got to maps. Is that a sign of a well constructed game? In my mind it isnt.

Now sit that next player down infront of the D4 beta. Which game do you think they will have more fun with and have clearer idea of what does what and how to progress at a reasonable rate? The answer is a resounding Diablo 4. You could counter with well Diablo 3 didnt need that either and I agree, but the issue with Diablo 3 is the end game loop was hot garbage that you could reaonably enjoy for a week or 2 a season once a year. If this game gets the endgame loop right then its golden. Not once did I feel the need to check out a maxroll guide or vist a discord or forum to get step by step instructions on how to put together and enjoy a build that I could maybe take to ealy/ mid endgame before reolling and hope for a jackpot item to build a real build that could kill Uber Uber Elder.

PoE is still pure bloat weather sextant blocking or atlas fixes occurred. There are systems on systems and optimal paths spanning a decade of systems that are not obvious to an average player at all. Yea I killed Uber Searing Exarch and Eater of Worlds and Uber Uber Elder or Catarina (good luck explaining how to spawn her coherently). At some point complexity spawns complexity for the sake of it. It shouldn't take a college course to explain how to craft endgame rares.
 
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Deathwing

Deathwing

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mkopec said:
Well then thats a dumb idea. What a waste of a perfect opportunity to reboot the whole thing.
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It almost worked on rubes like you!

Wasting assets is anathema to Chris Wilson. Fucking Torment is still in the game! Talismans too! And despite numerous attempts by other devs to make those amulets actually useful, he keeps overriding them.

They have removed a couple systems recently. Perandus was removed a couple leagues ago and the league uniques folded into the base drop table. Same for Prophecy league last league I think. They've finally shown a propensity to bite the bullet and "waste" some assets. Just need to do it quicker.


If you show a propensity for refreshing stale content(which the have been doing) or removing it outright(which they have been doing but perhaps too slow), is a reboot necessarily required?
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Deathwing said:
It almost worked on rubes like you!

Wasting assets is anathema to Chris Wilson. Fucking Torment is still in the game! Talismans too! And despite numerous attempts by other devs to make those amulets actually useful, he keeps overriding them.

They have removed a couple systems recently. Perandus was removed a couple leagues ago and the league uniques folded into the base drop table. Same for Prophecy league last league I think. They've finally shown a propensity to bite the bullet and "waste" some assets. Just need to do it quicker.


If you show a propensity for refreshing stale content(which the have been doing) or removing it outright(which they have been doing but perhaps too slow), is a reboot necessarily required?
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See but thats the thing. You dotn have to waste them, you can reuse them at a later date. Kinda like bungie does with D2. They basically re-introduced like 3/4 of D1 back into D2, lol. They could re imagine some of it, and reintroduce it at a later date. I honestly think Chris Wolcen is actually holding this game back from being great at this point.
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

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Juvarisx said:
I know you are a avid ARPG player so I wont discount what you are saying but I will add this. If you are to sit down someone and say try this game Path of Exile. No you are not allowed to use YouTube guides or visit the forum, how far realistlcy do you think they will get? GGG themselves fully admitted the vast majority of the playerbase never got to maps. Is that a sign of a well constructed game? In my mind it isnt.

Now sit that next player down infront of the D4 beta. Which game do you think they will have more fun with and have clearer idea of what does what and how to progress at a reasonable rate? The answer is a resounding Diablo 4. You could counter with well Diablo 3 didnt need that either and I agree, but the issue with Diablo 3 is the end game loop was hot garbage that you could reaonably enjoy for a week or 2 a season once a year. If this game gets the endgame loop right then its golden. Not once did I feel the need to check out a maxroll guide or vist a discord or forum to get step by step instructions on how to put together and enjoy a build that I could maybe take to ealy/ mid endgame before reolling and hope for a jackpot item to build a real build that could kill Uber Uber Elder.

PoE is still pure bloat weather sextant blocking or atlas fixes occurred. There are systems on systems and optimal paths spanning a decade of systems that are not obvious to an average player at all. Yea I killed Uber Searing Exarch and Eater of Worlds and Uber Uber Elder or Catarina (good luck explaining how to spawn her coherently). At some point complexity spawns complexity for the sake of it. It should take a college course to explain how to craft endgame rares.
Click to expand...
No Youtube, no guides, no wiki? Depending on their goals, they won't get far. I quit PoE a handful of times before it finally stuck. My son loves taking one of my builds and just killing Izaro in normal lab. Story mode Kitava too. Do all games have to be equally accessible? Honest question, I'm not trying to bias an answer.

My comments that are soley on PoE are not meant to imply a dislike of D4 despite this being a D4 thread. That's likely a mistake on my part. The thread has meandered and I'm just responding to some hangups past PoE players have had about the game that may or may not be resolved at this point.
 
Juvarisx

Juvarisx

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Deathwing said:
No Youtube, no guides, no wiki? Depending on their goals, they won't get far. I quit PoE a handful of times before it finally stuck. My son loves taking one of my builds and just killing Izaro in normal lab. Story mode Kitava too. Do all games have to be equally accessible? Honest question, I'm not trying to bias an answer.

My comments that are soley on PoE are not meant to imply a dislike of D4 despite this being a D4 thread. That's likely a mistake on my part. The thread has meandered and I'm just responding to some hangups past PoE players have had about the game that may or may not be resolved at this point.
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No, not every game needs to be accessible but if the game in question is the "standard" which all others in the genre need to be held up to then yea it probably needs to be. Counterstrike was the standard FPS for 10+ years and it was accessible to everyone regardless of skill level. The best were on a different plant but the average newbie could player on a public server and have fun. Fortnite has taken that crown now but the concept is the same. WoW is the gold standard in accessibility. It took what was an genre that was for the for the ultra nerd and made it into one that anyone could play at their level and see 95% of the content. Could they see everyhintg? nope but they could see most of it and strive to improve based on what they learned within the conext of the game as was presented. I'd argue that PoE is an incomprehensible mess without outside help which is the issue.

Again I love PoE, it took a game i liked a lot and imporved on it until it didnt. An AAA game needs to be accessible, more so if its the genre defining game. Chris I think has lost sight of that, and yea PoE will continue on until PoE 2 finally kills off the original, but he like Blizzard before is finally facing competition and I will be curious how the development of PoE 2 swerves to meet the challenge.
 
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O

Ortega

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Kirun said:
Why do you feel compelled to have the VERY BEST BUILD in D4? Just put 1 point into everything and then you'll be diverse as fuck.
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Beyond the fact your being intentionally obtuse. See point about max of six abilities and absolutely no integration between differing elements.

How is the fact that I went and counted core abilities in D3 vs D4 and there are MORE in D3 which everyone complained was terrible and super limited compared to D2....

I mean there is literally more skill diversity in Diablo 3 when you factor in passives and runes..... Not a great start folks no matter how you skin this cat.
 
Xevy

Xevy

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I can't be fucked to read all 20 of the last 2 days of pages, but if you think there's more build diversity in ANY, ANY Diablo game than PoE you're out of your fucking gourd.
 
O

Ortega

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Xevy said:
I can't be fucked to read all 20 of the last 2 days of pages, but if you think there's more build diversity in ANY, ANY Diablo game than PoE you're out of your fucking gourd.
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Should probably read at least the last few pages lol. My entire argument is that the game is way to watered down skill wise. I don't think we need a PoE clone, but this game definitely needs a little bit more choice.
 
Xevy

Xevy

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I haven't played it but watched everyone play all three available classes and it definitely seems there could be more to do. It'll probably end up like D2 where there's THE spec that does everything but gear reliant and then there's 2-3 builds that are really good but not braindead good and then like 2-3 builds that are almost good but never up to snuff. D2R for instance has shit, shit diversity. Entire branches and even CLASSES are basically moot compared to some (Sorcs).
 
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