Doctor Who

Jait

Jait

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Loved the finale. Michelle Gomez absence sucked. Rest of it was nerd gold, but needed more clarity regarding the whole Master/Doctor thing with the Cloister, President, Moon. Missed opportunity to explain how the Master stole the Key prior to the Valeyard usurping the Matrix in their futures (Trial of a Time Lord). Lots of vague blue-ball plotlines too. The Doctor's stepmother? That fucking barn again. Ashildr referencing the Doctor Who movie hybrid. So I guess the Doctor was born a girl? Many future plotlines setup too: Rassilon. Cloister Wars. That General guy reminds me of Borusa. I think she'll be around again.

Clara went out great. What I took from the whole entire existence was the Master brought them together in an attempt to bring back the original Doctor's personality, his childhood playmate. This was by far her best episode. And just to reiterate Moffat has said many, many times she will never return. I bet we see Arya Me again tho.
 
Enzee

Enzee

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Jait_sl said:
Loved the finale. Michelle Gomez absence sucked. Rest of it was nerd gold, but needed more clarity regarding the whole Master/Doctor thing with the Cloister, President, Moon. Missed opportunity to explain how the Master stole the Key prior to the Valeyard usurping the Matrix in their futures (Trial of a Time Lord). Lots of vague blue-ball plotlines too. The Doctor's stepmother? That fucking barn again. Ashildr referencing the Doctor Who movie hybrid. So I guess the Doctor was born a girl? Many future plotlines setup too: Rassilon. Cloister Wars. That General guy reminds me of Borusa. I think she'll be around again.

Clara went out great. What I took from the whole entire existence was the Master brought them together in an attempt to bring back the original Doctor's personality, his childhood playmate. This was by far her best episode. And just to reiterate Moffat has said many, many times she will never return. I bet we see Arya Me again tho.
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Real quick, I think Moffat means she won't come back as a companion, but this leaves open the possibility for her and Me to assist him in future 'epic level' events, like the anniversaries, specials and such. Another immortal being with a companion and a Tardis could come in handy. Also, why do you think the Doctor was born a girl? I didn't get that at all.

As for my thoughts on the episode, it was good. I like anything that deals with the Timelords, Gallifrey and their technology, though. So, I'm probably biased. The ending with Me and Clara was unexpected, and potentially very cool. I thought maybe the Dr would either use the new tardis, or otherwise fix his own chameleon circuit. I know many fans think that's blasphemy at this point, but he can simply choose to leave it as a blue box 99% of the time for nostalgia. Something about it being continuously broken has always irked me and was really hoping he'd fix it/replace it when I saw the new Tardis.

The whole hybrid story felt a little rushed, like Moffat needed an over arching storyline, but didn't build it up enough, and the end of it feels incomplete. I mean, ok so the Doctor and Clara were the hybrid? None of his other companions, just Clara? They are both alive still though, so just making one of them forget about the other set everything right? Ok.. sure, I suppose.

Honestly though, the biggest 'FUCK YEA!' moment came in the preview for the Xmas special. RIVER MOTHERFUCKING SONG! About god damned time she came back. The relationship between her and the Dr is great, and I think her and Capaldi fit a lot better then Smith or Tennant even. She made lots of references to aging while he didn't, so she should enjoy having the Dr look closer to her in age. I'd love to see her fill in as the companion for a bit. She had a reason for not traveling with him before, but maybe she agrees to do it temporarily, to prevent him from being alone and wallowing in self pity like he tends to do.
 
iannis

iannis

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I hope Capaldi has at least 2 seasons left. I know it's his second already now, but they've been struggling with him and these past two episodes have shown how great he can be if the writing is there.

That said... yep, the next doctor is gonna be female. That's a thing that's going to happen. Gender fluidity in my Dr. Who. They're setting it up so that when it happens it won't be a shock.

But I do hope it isn't Maisey. I truly hope that. She's not Doctor Who. I'm sorry, she's fine as Ayra, and I'm sure she's fine in other roles as well, but she just doesn't have the chops.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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it was ok, i didnt get as much "nerd gold" from it as Brother Jait did , but thats my fault, not from the show. so they went through all that just to ask the doctor what the hybrid was? the thing that was prophesied about for x years, they busted his balls about it now? what was the rush? i liked the diner cameo at the end and i felt better about clara's exit now. hopefully i never have to see her gorgeous body and horrible character ever again.

oh and thanks for giving him back his godamned screwdriver.

and oh again because they replaced timothy dalton with Maester Luwin as Rasilon

final edit

i kinda called it
Maester Chuk_sl said:
Also when The Doctor said " the hybrid is me" did he mean himself or is it a play on words and he was saying Me as in Ishilda (Maisie Williams)? I mean she is an immortal and a bit of a hybrid, mixing human and whatever was in that immortality wafer.
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Qhue

Qhue

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Having Me and Clara rampaging through time and space in a diner is just damn cool even if they never go back to the concept.

We still didn't actually see the Timelords get rescued, so there might be a story there. Having them hide out at the end of the universe too terrified to do anything or use the fleet of Tardises etc is just tragic. Kicking Rassilon out is almost certainly going to set up some future problems as well, but maybe this will shock them back into some sort of normality.
 
Qhue

Qhue

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Having Me and Clara rampaging through time and space in a diner is just damn cool even if they never go back to the concept.

We still didn't actually see the Timelords get rescued, so there might be a story there. Having them hide out at the end of the universe too terrified to do anything or use the fleet of Tardises etc is just tragic. Kicking Rassilon out is almost certainly going to set up some future problems as well, but maybe this will shock them back into some sort of normality.
 
Caliane

Caliane

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so they seemed to be suggesting he IS over 2 billion years old now.
A companion flipping the outcome on him is neat. not sure how he can remember the story to tell to clara at the diner, but not remember clara... None of what happened in the cloister, or pulling her out, or the raven, etc. should have been in his memory.

the big deal on death is silly again. this right after the whole afterlife deal. Robbing someone of their members may be potentially be far worse then death. if learning things and new experiences is the point of living, stealing those, defeats the point of life.

and yeah, hybrid was nonsense.
 
Malakriss

Malakriss

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Caliane_sl said:
so they seemed to be suggesting he IS over 2 billion years old now.
A companion flipping the outcome on him is neat. not sure how he can remember the story to tell to clara at the diner, but not remember clara... None of what happened in the cloister, or pulling her out, or the raven, etc. should have been in his memory.

the big deal on death is silly again. this right after the whole afterlife deal. Robbing someone of their members may be potentially be far worse then death. if learning things and new experiences is the point of living, stealing those, defeats the point of life.

and yeah, hybrid was nonsense.
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Why does no one think River Song is the hybrid? Especially after trying to make it seem like nonsense then rolling straight into Christmas special preview with.. River Song.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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Caliane_sl said:
so they seemed to be suggesting he IS over 2 billion years old now.
A companion flipping the outcome on him is neat. not sure how he can remember the story to tell to clara at the diner, but not remember clara... None of what happened in the cloister, or pulling her out, or the raven, etc. should have been in his memory.

the big deal on death is silly again. this right after the whole afterlife deal. Robbing someone of their members may be potentially be far worse then death. if learning things and new experiences is the point of living, stealing those, defeats the point of life.

and yeah, hybrid was nonsense.
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i still think it was a simulation and he only thinks it was billions of years. those gallifrey guys were chilling out at the end of the universe already. so whether he was in the time puzzle a few days or a few billion years he would still show up at around the same time since he gets ported at the end, regardless. it has to be that way, because if they made the doctor live out 2 billion years just to ask him a stupid question which really didnt matter in the end, then that makes it worse.
 
Caliane

Caliane

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Malakriss_sl said:
Why does no one think River Song is the hybrid? Especially after trying to make it seem like nonsense then rolling straight into Christmas special preview with.. River Song.
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no, I think its more along the lines of, no one CARES who or what the hybrid is. We the viewers are not given a reason to give any shits about it at all. Hell, Maisey is sitting there at the end of time, and she doesn't know. Shouldn't she KNOW if the Hybrid destroyed the universe? or, it didn't because the universe is clearing dying out on its own, in normal time.
 
Jait

Jait

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No one gives a shit about the Hybrid except Daleks and the Time Lords which suggest once again *someone* is manipulating the Matrix which NO ONE except the Valeyard was ever able to do. Early guess is this is the Control the Doctor is using to keep both races in check. Time Lords are now quite literally doing what the Valeyard did in the books. That was part of the nerd gold for me.
 
iannis

iannis

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the whole hybrid thing is p. dumb. It's a flaw. I don't even know why they framed it that way. I really don't. They needed a vague looming threat to compact a story?

They could have done all of the same things a more cohesive way without "THE HYBRID -- dun dun!" The Doctor wants to go back to Gallifrey because he's just been the War Doctor and he's got some PTSD and he wants to go kick Rassilon's ass for making him fight. Rassilon doesn't want his ass kicked, so he time loops The Doctor in his confession wheel to give the Doctor some time to calm his tits. And the only way you can really do that is to present The Doctor with either an unsolvable riddle or a moral dilemma -- and why not both? The Doctor still does all the stuff with saving Clara and freezing her in the final heartbeat and breaking time because of the power of love. Really, he wanted to do both all along -- kicking Rassilons ass was just a bonus. The Doctor does enjoy himself a good rassilon ass kicking.

The whole hybrid thing was just needless and pointless. But it did compact the story into 2 episodes rather than the 3 or 4 that they could have done otherwise. It's one of those... what do you call it when a deus ex machina happens in the middle of a story? A contrived plot device.
 
iannis

iannis

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Even with that gaping flaw, those last 2 (or 3) episodes were Dr. Who proper they were.

I hope next season pulls more in that direction. I hope it means that they've found their feet with Capaldi.
 
Jait

Jait

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Capaldi is great. Amazingly so when a certain companion didn't dominate screen time. Can't remember her name anymore.

Hybrid is Bad Wolf/Rose. Nothing comes close to that scale of power. And it fits the billion billion hearts (basically the Universe) to heal its own prophecy. If Billie Piper wants to take time off fucking werewolves and do Doctor Who again I'm all for it. Otherwise it's all just a new Foozle.
 
Phazael

Phazael

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There is also a small chance that they are going back to the "Master Plan" thing they were working on during Sylvester McCoy's run but never got to pull off. A lot of the early ground work for the time war shit and the Doctor being the man in the middle began during that time in the series. Moffat loves pulling classic era lore in whenever he can get away with it.

As for the season ender, its about time Capaldi got to sink his teeth into the part for once. I really hope they get the fuck away from the whole eye candy female who dominates screen time for a companion thing and was glad to see Clara bail. The show is noticeably better with less of her in it. Its not that she is bad, but she is not good. They need another Turlough, Donna Noble, or similar type. Someone who plays off of him, but lets him be the center of the story. I love tits as much as the next guy, but Rose, Amy, and Claire were the wrong direction to take companions in the show.
 
Enzee

Enzee

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Jait_sl said:
No one gives a shit about the Hybrid except Daleks and the Time Lords which suggest once again *someone* is manipulating the Matrix which NO ONE except the Valeyard was ever able to do.
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I have a hard time enjoying the old Dr. Who episodes due to the low production value (plus I dislike older shows in general, they just feel 'cheap' by todays standards. Never liked Original series Star Trek for same reason) so I don't know a ton about the story from back then. I've read up on some things through the wikipedia and such cause I'm really interested in Time Lord/Gallifrey things.

I'm curious what 'manipulating the matrix' actually does? It seemed like it was just their database of knowledge they pull from, but your saying it has control over Time lords (and other races)? Also, how is it that only the valeyard (who is hinted to be a future version of the Doctor, right?) could manipulate it? Who the hell made it then? I thought Rassilon, Omega and the Other made most of the tech that makes the Time Lords actual 'Time Lords', why can't any of them control the Matrix?
 
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