DOTA 2

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Sulrn

Deuces
2,159
360
Despite my MMR, I'm not retarded.
Post a match id where you honestly don't know what you could have done differently.

The slacks video has some interesting points, though I'm not sure if going support is even useful in 800 mmr games. Obviously first make sure you can handle the basic mechanics, then I think you go one of two paths, heroes that snowball or heroes that difficult to deal with lower levels of farm/skill.
Need to keep in mind that the video is 2 years old and that he's not talking about playing a traditional hard support. He's talking about playing someone with team fight changing abilities like Omni/Dazzle/Wyvern/etc since if you put 9 retards in a pit together at 50 minutes, the 4 carries + decent/good support should win. Which, unless they have a carry with a 10kgp+ lead - is always true.
 

Nite1

<WoW Guild Officer>
786
65
Elurin, one other thing to add to all the advice your getting is attitude is extremely important as well. Back when I used to play ranked alot I tanked something like 800 points over the course of 2 weeks and to be honest I was thinking the same things that you are now. If your going into games already frustrated or expecting retards your plays going to suffer because your going to worry about everyone else. Try to ignore all the outside things you can't control focus on what you can affect and try not to be negative and you'll probably see alot better results. (I know in a game like this it's hard as shit but it really does help)
 

Nite1

<WoW Guild Officer>
786
65
I'm very interested to see what an 800 mmr player considers an "unwinnable game".
Dota is funny some times.I remember thinking games were Un winnable. Recently, maybe it's because I'm an alliance fan, but I dont really think like that anymore. Ya some games its extremely unlikely that you can win but you never know. The other team has 5 people to, and they can fuck up just as badly
 

Cyni

Lord Nagafen Raider
565
216
I've thrown games with a 30k gold lead. Won with that much of a deficit too. I still tilt and think games are over when my lane goes bad, and then we come back and I have to apologize to my team.
 

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
39,371
129,417
I honestly don't remember any of the games at this point. Feel free to pick whatever and tell me how shit I am.Gravel - YASP

I'll admit some of these games I played like crap (that PL game for instance, where I never used my diffusal for Omni ult).

I think what Cyni says is a big problem I have in my games though. I get a lot of people ready to claim the game is over when we lose a T2 or something (if we lose a single lane of rax, they're ready to just sit in fountain). Convincing people that the game isn't over is a losing proposition.
 

Kithani

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,249
1,572
Sometimes you have to go outside of what the "best play" might be, for example if someone on your team is super tilted you might need to rotate to his lane earlier than you normally would and help him out so he keeps playing.
 

Cyni

Lord Nagafen Raider
565
216
2.0 kda when you're a core player just isnt going to cut it Elurin, even in your wins you're dying more than you're killing more often than not (just looking at your last 20 games its like 50/50).

Your last hits, gpm and xpm are all trending upward over the last 100 games which is a good sign that you're improving, but your lane efficiency is at like 48% which is fucking terrible for a core player (but totally expected when you look at your mmr).

Best way to get better based on this analysis? LEARN TO LAST HIT. Same as every other player below 4k. Its the fundamentals. Stop dying so much too. Kill more, die less, last hit better. Again, same as every other person below 4k.
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
917
Remember Dota is a game comprised of many different skill sets. Until you approach pro-level skill, almost no one brings the same capacity in all skill sets, and we still compare pros to each other and recognize the subtle differences in different game aspects. Additionally, while people do not admit this, every single hero that you play would have a different hero specific mmr if the system tracked that. Players who never play support and reach 4k on cores, do not pick supports and play a 4k supporting role, they will lose, say they can't win with support and go back to playing cores. This goes for any hero/role that is different than what you have primarily played.

I'm not great at Dota, but if I used your steam account, I would win almost 100% of my games until it reached 3.5kmmr. I can say that with almost 100% confidence. Its up to you to believe this is true. I would lose some games, perhaps against players who were harder smurfs than I would be, but the climb would be dramatic. There is no intrinsic force holding your account down. Remember there are 9 idiots in your games, because you are not an idiot, the opposing team has one more dumbass than yours. That matters over time.

People mentioned that leadership, mechanical superiority, greater action efficiency, better item builds tailored to game needs, and we can also add map awareness, multi-unit control, map manipulation (stacking and pulling), and most importantly map manipulation to enable objective taking. Every player you play with including yourself will have different ratings in all these categories. One game you might get 4 allies who have no leadership ability and do not listen, in such a game your leadership calls will not win you the game, but your mechanics might. But lets say the next game there is 4 people who want to coordinate and listen, in a game like this leadership may be the deciding factor in the win.

The same type of situation can be constructed for any combination of Dota skillsets. Lets say you have an ally that never looks at the minimap, relying on them to counter TP a dive you see coming is a poor way to win. If you understand that your ally doesn't have a skillset, don't risk winning the game on that skillset. Your ally should TP in lets say, but if they do not what should you do? Yell at them? Ask them in hindsight why they didn't TP? Stay at the tower until you die, feeling justified in your decision because it was the "right" play? One of the worst things people do, is to turn a mistake by a teammate into a mistake by the team. In my example above, if you stick around and die when you ally never assists you that's making it a team mistake. The right play in that situation is to leave the tower yourself, find some safe farm or xp, but the worst thing you can do is get yourself killed and feel justified in that because your ally should have reinforced you but did not.

The only way to improve at Dota is to hold yourself accountable to the things you can control. Low tier dota trends into games where they last for an hour, everyone still only has 2-3 maybe 4 items. People randomly die with minute long death timers and eventually one team loses a rax because of random events lining up. Don't let games turn into this. Implore your team to finish buildings before they dive. It won't always work, but if they listen it will win you games.

I can first person coach you in a game if that interests you, we can at least dialog about what I see and you can have a frame. I've done that for Cyni and Intrinsic from time to time among others.
 

Cyni

Lord Nagafen Raider
565
216
One thing came to mind when reading Reth's example on an ally tp'ing in/not tp'ing in due to map awareness. A LOT of players (myself included sometimes), wouldn't say a thing while the gank is happening. Then after they are dead, they'd open up their mic and go on for 30 sec about how their team mate is shit, and how he shouldve been better at the game, etc, etc.

All it wouldve taken is a simple communication, "TP Mid, ogre ganking me", and that shitter with no map awareness may have come and saved you. I do this kind of shit all the time, I'm dead silent until im dead and raging. Things like this is one of Reth's strong suits and he would probably win a number of games I would lose just on communication alone.
 

Sulrn

Deuces
2,159
360
That leaves only one last thing I've posted to be vindicated - Bring Back Solo Queue.

I can rally 4 retards into making smarter plays, I can't rally a 2/3/4 stacks that refuse to use in game voip/chat over their private mumble and want to not share their "strategy" or basic communication with the rest of the team.
 
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Luthair

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,247
85
Despite my MMR, I'm not retarded. And that's what annoys me, is that everyone wants to offer advice tailored to someone who doesn't get basic fundamentals. There's a serious misunderstanding about what's going on at this MMR.
Its not being stupid, just that all the minor differences in efficiency and decision making grow exponentially through the course of the game. A friend of mine calibrated at 1300 MMR, I partied with him a couple times so the games are probably around the average of the two of us:1594581824,1594514948.

Need to keep in mind that the video is 2 years old and that he's not talking about playing a traditional hard support. He's talking about playing someone with team fight changing abilities like Omni/Dazzle/Wyvern/etc since if you put 9 retards in a pit together at 50 minutes, the 4 carries + decent/good support should win. Which, unless they have a carry with a 10kgp+ lead - is always true.
I realize that but despite what he says hes still relying upon a certain level of competency of his cores, at 800 MMR I'm not sure its justified. In the links I posted above when I played with a low MMR friend the Slark built a linkens despite no real spells to block (viper strike & brood nuke) and heart. They might eventually get farm but they may never do anything with it.

That leaves only one last thing I've posted to be vindicated - Bring Back Solo Queue.

I can rally 4 retards into making smarter plays, I can't rally a 2/3/4 stacks that refuse to use in game voip/chat over their private mumble and want to not share their "strategy" or basic communication with the rest of the team.
Fuck 4 stacks the most, they expect you to play a position 6 slave and MMR averages suggest you'll be better than at least half their squad in most cases. 2/3 stacks have a similar problem in that they all go core but at least one of them will suck.
 

Ridas

Pay to play forum
2,878
4,143
Grant is the man at the summit. Af vs navi was crazy entertaining casting. He is hilarious in a very natural way unlike sirItrysofuckinghardSlacks.