DOTA 2
- Thread starter Bels_sl
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Zaphid
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Pangolin looked like garbage everytime I've seen him. Fairy looked pretty ok, the ult seems really nice to disengage or split the enemy team hard. There's a bunch of wisp videos on reddit showing how retarded the "attack when your tether target attacks" talent is, not sure this one is staying, although not sure how feasible it is in a pro level game. Although it does put a clock on the end of the game since you can beat backdoor very easily with a fast attacking hero with very limited items. Bane also looks pretty retarded, I think either the attack without nightmare breaking or enfeeble stealing damage is going to go or be nerfed. Separately they're ok but together they're super broken considering how long nightmare lasts and how much damage enfeeble gives.
Dandain
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I am honestly not that concerned. The game needs to be kept fresh in some manner to recruit new players. Retention of 40 year olds is probably not dota's long term problem. Its still dota, even if you haven't played in years. 95% of players are not good enough to have patch changes deeply impact their experience. Pro's sure, But they are getting to play for like 13 million + 20 million in prize pools this year. His normal sport analogies are weak at best. They most certainly don't have as many knobs to tweak as dota by far.
Sulrn
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There are other ways to keep interest fresh besides changing core concepts, minor or major. There's still a vast amount of ground to be covered by simply reviving the rest of the -mode system and expanding the non-ranked mode types and curating + adopting some of the more successful mods. Seasonal quests (like the PA Contract) that reward potentially going against the meta are more than enough when coupled with map rotations, new heroes, new items, and ranked seasons.
Dandain
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I'm not sure the core concepts that have been changed. For example he invoked Starcraft BW and Smash as his two examples of esport games that have gone patchless. In Starcraft's case at least, the game was kept competitive in large part due to the maps. Which just misses the point that the game was improved in a way without changing the rules, but there is only 3 races. Smash - I have no idea - I do not know how, what, when, where, and why accidents make it an esport other than its unintentional high skill ceiling. However, aren't some characters in smash just dead in competitive? Isn't only a portion of the cast viable? If anyone can answer this I'd love to know. This is where I just can't see a world where dota isn't getting patched, it has 110~ characters and the map is one thing that can adjust them all in a way that just changing one of them cannot. The difference between the first versions of Dota and Dota 2 today are immense...but the following is still true. It really does just play like Dota, play a game.
Zaphid
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They definitely were if you are playing at the top level. Starcraft has ironed out all the kinks when it comes to macro etc. You will macro the same way on the same map forever and ever. Suddenly you have to figure out whether they have CC resist, is their Aeon Disk on CD or not ? Base MS+boots no longer work if you need to figure out whether you can outrun somebody, especially an agi hero. How long does your stun last on a CK with heart now ? Nukes do less damage to int heroes, but when does it start to matter ?
All of those things are seemingly insignificant for a casual player, but they screw with your "feel" if you are a pro and I honestly don't think that's what the game needs. Not to mention if you aren't reading all 10 pages of patch notes, you can't even figure out what went wrong, because as usual Valve doesn't do tutorials.
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I mean for stuns and stuff, it's not really an issue, considering they also added the timer bar thing that everyone bitched about before. You can clearly see when your stun is going to drop. Or at least I assume that's how it works. Aeon Disk is pretty much like keeping track of Abaddon or SkK ultimates or whatever when ganking. The other 2 I agree are more of an issue, you can probably see the enemy movespeed if you click on him but it's a lot more obsfucated than a quick look at their inventory and general knowledge of base hero movespeed in typical match ups(to be fair it wasn't necessarily that easy to remember the base movespeed of every hero in the game, just the more common ones you might lane against) and int is quite a mess to calculate, especially when trying to do specific damage math when you're low on mana and stuff.
Some of the talents are pretty fucky too. The double linken QoP build is quite a mess since it's so hard to keep track of her talent linken(I think you have to check the buff icon?).
That said I'm not necessarily against these types of patches, I think sometimes a bunch of the stuff is just experiments but out of it, some pretty good stuff came out. Talents are cool imo, so are bounty runes. They were crazy unnecessary ideas but their addition has changed a lot of things for the better. Talents open up a lot of viable different ways to build heroes and offer meaningful non item based progression for supports and a lot helped make some heroes more viable, plus they gave a very high incentive to gaining levels that wasn't present before. Before once you reached 16, the incentive to get to 25 was super low(unless Invoker). Like sure you got a bunch of free stats and everyone wanted the free stats to an extent, but xp lost a ton of value over gold as the game progressed. Nowadays, xp is super valuable due to the power of lvl 20 and 25 talents and people will keep trying to be xp efficient even lategame(until they're 25 obviously).
I don't know if I like the secondary stats effects, I feel it's kinda meh and not really adding much. I guess it defines stat type identity a bit better, but I'm not sure that's a good thing, most classes already built either stat neutral items or items for their secondary effects only, and the secondary effects are so small it seems that stacking your main stat isn't really that useful anyway.
Some of the talents are pretty fucky too. The double linken QoP build is quite a mess since it's so hard to keep track of her talent linken(I think you have to check the buff icon?).
That said I'm not necessarily against these types of patches, I think sometimes a bunch of the stuff is just experiments but out of it, some pretty good stuff came out. Talents are cool imo, so are bounty runes. They were crazy unnecessary ideas but their addition has changed a lot of things for the better. Talents open up a lot of viable different ways to build heroes and offer meaningful non item based progression for supports and a lot helped make some heroes more viable, plus they gave a very high incentive to gaining levels that wasn't present before. Before once you reached 16, the incentive to get to 25 was super low(unless Invoker). Like sure you got a bunch of free stats and everyone wanted the free stats to an extent, but xp lost a ton of value over gold as the game progressed. Nowadays, xp is super valuable due to the power of lvl 20 and 25 talents and people will keep trying to be xp efficient even lategame(until they're 25 obviously).
I don't know if I like the secondary stats effects, I feel it's kinda meh and not really adding much. I guess it defines stat type identity a bit better, but I'm not sure that's a good thing, most classes already built either stat neutral items or items for their secondary effects only, and the secondary effects are so small it seems that stacking your main stat isn't really that useful anyway.
