Drugs to steer clear of

Rajaah

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Putting out a warning of sorts here. 7-OH tablets are everywhere nowadays, they're great for pain relief, they're totally unregulated for whatever reason...

...and if you take 'em for a little bit, they totally fuck you up when you stop taking them, or slow the dose, whatever the case may be. I was out of commission for most of the past 3 weeks, barely able to show up for work twice a week and game a bit, but not much else, due to these spawns of Satan. I'm still figuring out how to get the hell off of them so I can get back to my normal routine. Luckily I only have short-term use to kick, been reading online about people being on them for multiple years and having to go on Suboxone and shit. I've been on plenty of potent prescription drugs in the past and never had this much trouble kicking any of them. This is more like what I imagine kicking street drugs would be like. Maybe I've gotten hit in the head too many times but these pills seemed like a pretty benign thing to try out for a little while, made me feel good, yada yada.

7-OH tablets, being "kratom", are very different from regular kratom powder in capsules and I'm not sure if people realize that. Powders/capsules are generally sold in grams, while 7-OH is sold in milligrams (and yet is vastly more potent and addictive). One can get addicted to either, sure, but I think it takes a lot longer with comparatively weak kratom leaf capsules. Those also help people kick heroin addictions and whatnot so I'm not in favor of the various congressional attempts to ban the stuff. However, 7-OH probably needs to be regulated because I can't imagine how many teenagers are gonna ruin their lives with the stuff. The doses I was taking were minor (like a quarter of a pill) and kids popping whole tablets are gonna completely fuck up their lives.

That dude AwakenWithJP on Youtube was on Feel Good shots for a while, which are made from similar stuff, and he had a really bad time getting off of 'em too. I guess we could just keep taking these things and become full-on addicts, but after a while you're spending hundreds of dollars a week on them and your hair is falling out of your head. Which, being 40, it's great I've held onto my hair this long, don't need a drug taking it away. And no, just maintaining a consistent dose doesn't work, you need to keep increasing it because of how fast it builds a tolerance. Soon as I realized how habit forming they actually were, and couldn't stop taking them (or sleep without them), I started trying to stop, but it was too late.

So just a warning to bros and non-bros alike, even "benign herbal supplements" that help your mood can be fucking disasters. I suspect these companies are probably adding things to them to make them habit forming / excruciating to come off of, as well. They make way, way more money if someone is fully dependent and taking four tablets a day, rather than taking fragments recreationally every couple days.

To re-iterate, I'm talking about 7-OH, not standard kratom leaf powder which I've had in the past and it was fine. Big difference. 7-OH are tablets and they're usually marketed in bright colorful packaging that jumps out at kids. So watch out for them getting into this stuff too.

Feel free to post things you've had bad experiences with that people should avoid, or just mock me for having back injuries and taking things to relax and having it backfire. Whatever. Just sharing a cautionary tale so somebody can learn from my fuck-up. It's never harmless.
 
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Gurgeh

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Rajaah said:
Putting out a warning of sorts here. 7-OH tablets are everywhere nowadays, they're great for pain relief, they're totally unregulated for whatever reason...

...and if you take 'em for a little bit, they totally fuck you up when you stop taking them, or slow the dose, whatever the case may be. I was out of commission for most of the past 3 weeks, barely able to show up for work twice a week and game a bit, but not much else, due to these spawns of Satan. I'm still figuring out how to get the hell off of them so I can get back to my normal routine. Luckily I only have short-term use to kick, been reading online about people being on them for multiple years and having to go on Suboxone and shit. I've been on plenty of potent prescription drugs in the past and never had this much trouble kicking any of them. This is more like what I imagine kicking street drugs would be like. Maybe I've gotten hit in the head too many times but these pills seemed like a pretty benign thing to try out for a little while, made me feel good, yada yada.

7-OH tablets, being "kratom", are very different from regular kratom powder in capsules and I'm not sure if people realize that. Powders/capsules are generally sold in grams, while 7-OH is sold in milligrams (and yet is vastly more potent and addictive). One can get addicted to either, sure, but I think it takes a lot longer with comparatively weak kratom leaf capsules. Those also help people kick heroin addictions and whatnot so I'm not in favor of the various congressional attempts to ban the stuff. However, 7-OH probably needs to be regulated because I can't imagine how many teenagers are gonna ruin their lives with the stuff. The doses I was taking were minor (like a quarter of a serving) and kids popping whole tablets are gonna completely fuck up their lives.

That dude AwakenWithJP on Youtube was on Feel Good shots for a while, which are made from similar stuff, and he had a really bad time getting off of 'em too. I guess we could just keep taking these things and become full-on addicts, but after a while you're spending hundreds of dollars a week on them and your hair is falling out of your head. Which, being 40, it's great I've held onto my hair this long, don't need a drug taking it away. And no, just maintaining a consistent dose doesn't work, you need to keep increasing it because of how fast it builds a tolerance. Soon as I realized how habit forming they actually were, and couldn't stop taking them (or sleep without them), I started trying to stop, but it was too late.

So just a warning to bros and non-bros alike, even "benign herbal supplements" that help your mood can be fucking disasters. I suspect these companies are probably adding things to them to make them habit forming / excruciating to come off of, as well. They make way, way more money if someone is fully dependent and taking four tablets a day, rather than taking fragments recreationally every couple days.

To re-iterate, I'm talking about 7-OH, not standard kratom leaf powder which I've had in the past and it was fine. Big difference. 7-OH are tablets and they're usually marketed in bright colorful packaging that jumps out at kids. So watch out for them getting into this stuff too.

Feel free to post things you've had bad experiences with that people should avoid, or just mock me for having back injuries and taking things to relax and having it backfire. Whatever. Just sharing a cautionary tale so somebody can learn from my fuck-up. It's never harmless.
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Looks like natural Kratom leaf are safe, you'd die from ingesting kilograms of leafs before getting significant amount of natural 7-OH, but what you got was actual synthetic opiod ? Like kratom leafs with added synthetic 7-OH, which is basicaly not very different from having taken morphine for 3 weeks. How the fuck is that not regulated ? Or rather than being regulated, written clearly that it's akin to taking morphine.
 
Sylas

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congrats on overcoming your first opioid addiction, its tough
 
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“synthetic cannabis” AKA spice, was legal in stores before the government caught up. I’m sure these pills will be more of the same. A new OTC product will come out and replace it. If you’re stupid enough to be ingesting gas station pills in bright packaging, YGWYD.
 
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Gurgeh

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Caligula_The_Cat said:
“synthetic cannabis” AKA spice, was legal in stores before the government caught up. I’m sure these pills will be more of the same. A new OTC product will come out and replace it. If you’re stupid enough to be ingesting gas station pills in bright packaging, YGWYD.
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If you plan on taking any supplement or drug, spending a few minutes to check what’s up is a sensible idea. Looking at the 1st paragraph on Wikipedia would have been enough to tell you that more than a few days was a bad idea.
 
Rajaah

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Caligula_The_Cat said:
“synthetic cannabis” AKA spice, was legal in stores before the government caught up. I’m sure these pills will be more of the same. A new OTC product will come out and replace it. If you’re stupid enough to be ingesting gas station pills in bright packaging, YGWYD.
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Not gas station, got 'em from the local smoke shop. I've gotten plenty of kratom capsules in the past and the way it was described, 7-OH is just a more concentrated variety of the same thing.

Gurgeh said:
If you plan on taking any supplement or drug, spending a few minutes to check what’s up is a sensible idea. Looking at the 1st paragraph on Wikipedia would have been enough to tell you that more than a few days was a bad idea.
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Looking it up online seemed to indicate that it helped lots of people, but also could be addictive. So just don't take 'em all the time, right? A small dose every couple days to help me get work done. No problem. The fact that I'd taken kratom powder before without issue (and zero problem going off of it) was what had me thinking this stuff would be fine. Next thing I know it's every day, then a couple times a day, then I can't turn it off.

When I started there were just two official-looking types of 7-OH brands in the store, now there is an entire "bookcase" dedicated to 7-OH brands behind the counter and they look like a big bowl of Fruity Pebbles with all the colors. Some even have animal mascots (WTF).

As a reminder, I was taking an extremely minor dose of this stuff. Not even the recommended serving size (half a tablet), more like half of a serving or even less than that. Recognized the potency right off the bat and only took what were essentially micro-doses to help out. STILL got fucked up. People taking the "recommended dose" and servings will just get fucked up 2x as fast.

Sylas said:
congrats on overcoming your first opioid addiction, its tough
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Oh, I haven't overcome shit yet. I'm in a box now where I have to dose to travel or get things done (or else I'm entirely useless), then try to de-tox on my free days. I need like two weeks completely off from life and I might be able to get clean on my own, otherwise it's gonna probably be getting on Suboxone (which is its own problem).

Gurgeh said:
Looks like natural Kratom leaf are safe, you'd die from ingesting kilograms of leafs before getting significant amount of natural 7-OH, but what you got was actual synthetic opiod ? Like kratom leafs with added synthetic 7-OH, which is basicaly not very different from having taken morphine for 3 weeks. How the fuck is that not regulated ? Or rather than being regulated, written clearly that it's akin to taking morphine.
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Never read anything about it being like morphine, but that's a good way to describe it, it's like micro-dosing morphine. I've gotten morphine for operations before so I can draw a comparison from experience. Didn't even want to mention that in the initial post because I don't want anybody going "Wait, this sounds AWESOME". Can't even discuss this with friends because I know some of them will want to try it for themselves, because they "won't overdo it" or whatever justification their brain makes.

Yeah, natural Kratom leaf is safe. Benign as hell but it won't kill you and it takes a long time to become addictive. It also has a built-in safety mechanism where if you consume too much of it, you get sick and throw up. That requires a lot more than I ever took, and you'd need a lot more than even that to die from it. So you'll be puking it out way before you have any chance of dying, is what I'm saying. Around 36 people died from "kratom use" in the last decade and all of them had something else in their system (usually heroin).

7-OH =/= kratom leaf, thinking "it's just a concentrated version of that" is where I made a substantial mistake.
 
Gurgeh

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Rajaah said:
Never read anything about it being like morphine,
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7-OH binds to opioid receptors like mitragynine, but research suggests that 7-OH binds with greater efficacy.[4]
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Literally on top of Wikipedia. Usually it takes a little digging to find the issues with drugs or supplement, but this one took me 15 seconds.

Binds with the same receptor, has the same effect. Sounds bad.
 
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Rajaah

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Gurgeh said:
How the fuck is that not regulated ? Or rather than being regulated, written clearly that it's akin to taking morphine.
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That is the question of the hour. 100% chance it will be regulated at some point, likely in the near future, and when that happens all the new 7-OH addicts who are riding the wave are going to hit an absolute brick wall. Unfortunately I think we're in the early phase where it's catching people by surprise, and the people who know better and could sound the alarm are also generally people who are still on it.

I did super low doses and then cut back when it was clearly becoming a problem, now I'm suffering. No riding the wave for me because I know where that's going. Given how the smoke shop (which is run by a bunch of Indian people who actively push this stuff on customers) has been filling their shelves with more and more 7-OH, trying to keep it stocked, and even giving out free samples, I can only conclude tons of people are getting on it.

They told me about one guy who was going from shop to shop (they have 5 or so shops) filling up on 7-OH (if one didn't have enough) and another guy who would buy ten packs at a time every Tuesday. I don't know who those guys are or if they have a family / people who rely on them or what, but they have my sympathies when it doesn't work out.

In the meantime they're probably getting along better with said families, I know I was for a bit and nowadays that's pretty great. I got together with friends more often, had some nice days with family and actually formed some quality memories considering my family has been a mess for years now. Stuff really makes you want to socialize. Felt about ten years younger. For a few weeks. Then it turns you into Demi Moore from The Substance if you don't keep increasing the dose. The Substance was a 100% perfect allegory for 7-OH, actually. And probably other hard drugs.

How is it legal, indeed. I'll let y'all know if I ever actually fully get off of it. Going to my doctor (who is a long-time associate and trusts me) and telling him that I fucked up and need Suboxone would be a bitter pill to swallow, no pun intended. Which reminds me, a lot of the 7-OH tablets have a great minty flavor, which encourages people to chew them up (causing them to hit you way harder and faster). Jesus Christ. When I was a teenager I would have been all over this and I might be dead.

Gurgeh said:
Literally on top of Wikipedia. Usually it takes a little digging to find the issues with drugs or supplement, but this one took me 15 seconds.

Binds with the same receptor, has the same effect. Sounds bad.
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Unfortunately, I don't know what a lot of that medical jargon means. Also, when I looked into this substance, I most likely looked into "kratom tablets" rather than "7-OH" because for the first few weeks I really did think it was just the same thing in a condensed dose. Now I know the tablets are actually 7-OH, so I'm making sure to call it 7-OH and let people know it ISN'T the same thing as just basic kratom leaf.

Whole point of this post isn't to get sympathy or even advice on the issue, it's to warn other people not to be stupid.

They should just put "extremely addictive substance with potentially harmful effects" in huge red letters at the top of the Wikipedia page
 
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Sylas

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In layman's terms, while not technically correct, the gist is:

All opioids your liver converts into Morphine at varying rates. The type of compound it is determines how easily/quickly your body can convert this into morphine. This drug you are taking converts at the rate of approx 14-20x easier than actual morphine. For the record, Heroin is only 3x as potent as Morphine, this drug is roughly 5-7x more powerful than heroin. It is about 1/2 as powerful as Fentanyl.

stop fucking taking it or end up on the street
 
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Izo

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O2. I got a taste for it after the umb cord was cut. Now I can't live without it. Jesus muh addictions.
 
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Izo said:
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O2. I got a taste for it after the umb cord was cut. Now I can't live without it. Jesus muh addictions.
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We all know that you really live for the other 1% of gases.
 
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Rajaah

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Sylas said:
In layman's terms, while not technically correct, the gist is:

All opioids your liver converts into Morphine at varying rates. The type of compound it is determines how easily/quickly your body can convert this into morphine. This drug you are taking converts at the rate of approx 14-20x easier than actual morphine. For the record, Heroin is only 3x as potent as Morphine, this drug is roughly 5-7x more powerful than heroin. It is about 1/2 as powerful as Fentanyl.

stop fucking taking it or end up on the street
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Seriously? Can you hook me up with whatever documentation you got the numbers from for this particular drug?

No wonder it's so ludicrously difficult to stop taking 7-OH, if it's stronger than morphine. But stronger than heroin? Not sure I believe it...but at the same time, I kinda do. Never had heroin so I can't compare anything, but this does feel around 1:1 with the morphine I've had in the past.

How is this sold in smoke stores? Jesus Christ.

I'm working on it, it's pure misery. I can't seem to go a whole day without having at least a microdose in my system just to be at 4/10 misery instead of 10/10 misery.

Got some Gabapentin and that seems to quell some of the symptoms, particularly the RLS, if taken before I go to sleep in particular. So I'm actually able to sleep through the night now at least, once I get past the insomnia.

We're at about two weeks of misery now. Really thinking a Suboxone treatment is the best option before it gets any worse or I just go fuck it and return to full dosing. Due to my short-term and very limited use of the drug, I might be able to get away with one month of subs which won't have too bad of a withdrawal from it. Given the potency of 7-OH they'll probably want me to do two months of subs though. ...assuming my doctor has even heard of the stuff yet. I also might be overreacting and maybe I can beat it on my own once I taper down to where a week off from it is doable (maybe a week would be enough to overcome it, I don't know).

Either way, I'll also be giving up something that hugely helped me for a little while. Took me back in time ten years. I'll miss it, and will need to refer back to this to remind me that it turns into a fucking spawn of Satan. If it gets regulated, it'll probably save a lot of lives. Unfortunately this bastardized concoction will also likely take regular kratom powder down with it, and that stuff helps a lot more people than it hurts. Oh well.
 
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Foler

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Isn’t this that diddy rape drug?
 
Rajaah

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That second one is a particularly interesting read.

When J.R. spotted defendants' 7-OH tablets on a shelf at the store where he bought delta-9 gummies, he asked about it. He was advised they would help with his leg pain without being addictive, and when J.R. tried the tablets for the first time, “he was amazed that such a product could produce such effects without being addictive, so he came back for more,” the lawsuit said.

J.R. was consuming between four and five of the tablets every day “because he had no reason to believe it was habit-forming,” according to the lawsuit. By June, however, J.R. had run out of cash. “He had been spending nearly his entire paycheck each week on the products,” the lawsuit noted. J.R. then went into withdrawal, which he compared to the struggle of getting off prescription opiates.

Sounds about right. I was also under the impression from the stores that this was just concentrated kratom and not addictive, both of which are wildly incorrect.

The crazy thing is that all of the people mentioned in the class-action lawsuit are still on the stuff (despite being out of money and miserable). Yikes. Well, except the one who went on Suboxone.

Foler said:
Isn’t this that diddy rape drug?
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No, that was GHB. He'd put rohypnol into baby oil and squirt it on women (what the actual fuck)
 
Sylas

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Rajaah said:
Seriously? Can you hook me up with whatever documentation you got the numbers from for this particular drug?

No wonder it's so ludicrously difficult to stop taking 7-OH, if it's stronger than morphine. But stronger than heroin? Not sure I believe it...but at the same time, I kinda do. Never had heroin so I can't compare anything, but this does feel around 1:1 with the morphine I've had in the past.

How is this sold in smoke stores? Jesus Christ.

I'm working on it, it's pure misery. I can't seem to go a whole day without having at least a microdose in my system just to be at 4/10 misery instead of 10/10 misery.

Got some Gabapentin and that seems to quell some of the symptoms, particularly the RLS, if taken before I go to sleep in particular. So I'm actually able to sleep through the night now at least, once I get past the insomnia.

We're at about two weeks of misery now. Really thinking a Suboxone treatment is the best option before it gets any worse or I just go fuck it and return to full dosing. Due to my short-term and very limited use of the drug, I might be able to get away with one month of subs which won't have too bad of a withdrawal from it. Given the potency of 7-OH they'll probably want me to do two months of subs though. ...assuming my doctor has even heard of the stuff yet. I also might be overreacting and maybe I can beat it on my own once I taper down to where a week off from it is doable (maybe a week would be enough to overcome it, I don't know).

Either way, I'll also be giving up something that hugely helped me for a little while. Took me back in time ten years. I'll miss it, and will need to refer back to this to remind me that it turns into a fucking spawn of Satan. If it gets regulated, it'll probably save a lot of lives. Unfortunately this bastardized concoction will also likely take regular kratom powder down with it, and that stuff helps a lot more people than it hurts. Oh well.
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All that info is freely available on wikipedia, generally within the first paragraph.

Also don't assume that something isn't yet regulated or schedule 1'd that it's not bad for you or not addictive. Holy shit the government is slow, incompetent, and inefficient? who could have guessed this?

Morphine was a cough syrup that was used to treat opium addiction in soldiers, Heroin was created to be a less addictive cough syrup to treat morphine addiction. Methadone, hydracodone, oxycodone, fentanyl, it's all the same thing. hell even naloxone that is used to save people from ODing (it is just an extremely short half life version of the drug, like 30min), they are all opioids that bind to the MU-opioid receptor in your brain to varying degrees by pushing out weaker versions of themselves and they all can be used to "Treat" a less strong version. You can get just as high on methadone as you can on heroin, but clinics give out a "maintenance" dose, enough to stop withdrawal symptoms but not enough to get high, but Methadone is chosen because it has a half life that is twice as long as heroin so you can give a maintenance dose every morning and not get withdrawals all day. Suboxone is the exact same thing. Longer half life opioid that you take just enough of to not get high and then you slowly ween off of it. You can get just as high on that shit too if you take more.

Don't get caught up in the efficacy/dosage equivalents, its irrelevant. Users aren't out in the streets with measuring scales and graduated cylinders like some chemist formulating dosages. A High is a High a High is a High, people buy highs. whether that's 250mg of morphine or 200mg of vicodine or 100mg of heroin or 200 micrograms of Fentanyl it's all the same high. if 100mg of morphine is a "High" for you, then the equivalent dose of fentanyl is not 50x "higher" It's "ok this is higher, oh shit i'm dead" about 48.5x of that high is gonna be wasted because you are gonna stop breathing around 1.5x.

Back in the day the common dose was the $10 baggie of heroin and that's what was High for most people, and the longer you on the streets you had to do more, up to like 2 or even 3 bags a day to stay high, or at least 1 bag a day to maintain and not go through Withdrawals. Fentanyl changed the game (and spiked the OD deaths 25x from 4k a year to 100k a year) precisely because it is so efficient that the equivalent dose to $10 worth of Heroin is 200 micrograms, and junkies aren't fucking precise enough to handle micrograms. You've all seen the pictures of what a lethal dose looks like, next to a dime for scale, it's a few grains of dust.

You can't sell that. What you do is take a cannister of baby powder (or box of baking soda, depending on if your customers snort or shoot it) and mix in a tiny dose of fentanyl and blend well. its 99.9% baby powder and 0.1% Fentanyl, and you put that in the baggie and sell those. If your lucky you get only 0.1% fentanyl but if the guy didn't mix that shit right you die. With the advent of Naloxone maybe you live.

The shit you are fucking with is like Temu Fentanyl, it's almost half as strong. Whatever dosing you were taking to feel great is basically a High. You microdosing now to not to feel like shit is a maintenance dosage to avoid going through withdrawals.
 
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Void

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This is the adult forum, so I am asking this earnestly.

How long have you been on this stuff? Because I know I've specifically wondered if you take drugs when posting some of your theories in other threads, and you (understandably) got a little annoyed and told me that you didn't. Except now we find out you've been basically taking heroin. That would explain a lot.

I sincerely hope you get whatever help you need to kick this habit, and my suggestion would be to get actual medical help because doing it yourself seems like you are just going to drag it out forever hoping that some day you get a couple of weeks free, but when those weeks finally come it will probably be too hard to actually quit, since no one wants to be miserable for a couple of weeks right? You've already tried to do it yourself, go to the doctor and get help. Hell, maybe you can help educate the doctor as well so they maybe stop someone else from doing the same thing.
 
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Hateyou

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I can’t wrap my head around regularly buying Indian gas station pills and never thinking to research wtf you’re ingesting. Jesus man.
 
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Fadaar

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Caligula_The_Cat said:
“synthetic cannabis” AKA spice, was legal in stores before the government caught up. I’m sure these pills will be more of the same. A new OTC product will come out and replace it. If you’re stupid enough to be ingesting gas station pills in bright packaging, YGWYD.
Click to expand...

heard about spice so much in the military i wanted to blow my fucking brains out every time the higher ups started talking about it
 
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