Dungeons & Dragons - New & Old

Himeo

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I think the idea of Dark Sun is interesting, but playing in a desert world just doesn't appeal to me /shrug I've played it, FR, and Birthright, and FR is my home I guess. Though Birthright is pretty damn fun, if a tad frustrating if you play a blooded character and fight the random anwsheigh. It's like playing D&D and Risk at the same time.
Let me show you why it appeals to me.
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"I live in a world of fire and sand. The crimson sun scorches the life from anything that crawls or flies, and storms of sand scour the foliage from the barren ground. This is a land of blood and dust, where tribes of feral elves sweep out of the salt plains to plunder lonely caravans, mysterious singing winds call travelers to slow suffocation in the Sea of Silt, and selfish kings squander their subjects' lives building gaudy palaces and garish tombs. This bleak wasteland is Athas, and it is my home."

- The Wanderer's Journal
The sorcerer-kings have ruled the Tyr Region for longer than anyone can remember. For generations, no one contested their power and lived to tell about it, but everything changed recently when a spear impaled Kalak, the sorcerer-king of Tyr.

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Listen to this song while you read.
Kalak's death and Tyr's liberation marked the beginning of a new era, shaking thrones that had not been threatened in countless years. Rumors of Tyr's freedom spread like wildfire across the Seven Cities, giving pause to sorcerer-kings who hoped that thoughts of rebellion would not spread to their own domains.

For uncounted centuries these sorcerer-kings have ruled Athas with an iron fist. But the truth is known. These sorcerer-kings can bleed. They candie.

In the courts of the other city-states, rumors of King Kalak's overthrow are only whispered, but in Tyr, the repercussions howl through the streets. Many scheme to succeed Kalak, and the templars and other power groups vying for control struggle to keep the city-state from disintegrating into anarchy at the hands of people eager to enjoy their freedom. Nobles and merchants clamor for influence, and commoners and freed slaves openly celebrate, challenging civic authority and social boundaries at every turn.

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Tithian, the former high templar, is now recognized as King of Tyr. However, his throne is far from secure. King Tithian holds his crown at the sufferance of the other templars and the heads of powerful groups who wield great influence but are not yet strong enough to overthrow him.

What about King Kalak's death did these strutting pretenders not understand? Tyr has no King. Tyr needs no King.

As the sun dips below the Ringing Mountains, you make your way through the crowded streets of the Warrens district. You've been invited to a clandestine meeting for revolutionaries and sympathizers. Your heart beats faster with each step you take. Your life will be forfeit if you're caught but something drives you forward. Is it hope for a better life or naked ambition? Only you know the answer.

Plot Hooks_sl said:
Embedded Spy:Tyr's newfound freedom has caused no shortage of consternation among the Seven Cities. The other sorcerer-kings have dispatched agents to gather intelligence about the liberated citystate and create conflict where possible. You are one such spy. Were you born in Tyr, or are you from another city-state? To whom do you report? How do you view the rebellion?

Freed Slave:Following Kalak's death, King Tithian outlawed slavery in Tyr. You were one of thousands set free. Do you think your liberty will last? Who owned you? How do you feel about your former master?

Noble of Conscience:You have enjoyed comfort and privilege throughout your life, but you know that your wealth was earned through the efforts of people who didn't have enough. You want to help the oppressed, but should you keep your title and become a protector of the weak, or should you fight to erode the power and influence of your noble peers?

Revolutionary:You worked to overthrow Kalak in the final months of his reign. Whether you spied on his nobles, preached rebellion to slaves in the brickyards, or carried messages for rebel leaders, you played a part in the king's downfall. What will you do now that you have succeeded? What secrets did you learn? Do you have contacts among the groups vying for power in the city-state?
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Listen to this song while you read.
Beneath a crimson sun lie wastelands of majestic desolation and cities of cruel splendor, where sandal clad heroes battle ancient sorcery and terrible monsters. This is Athas, the world of the DARK SUN campaign setting, a dying planet of savagery and desolation. Life hangs by a thread in this barren land, and now it is up to you to write your own story in blood and glory.


EIGHT CHARACTERISTICS OF ATHAS

The world of the DARK SUN setting is unique in several ways. Many familiar trappings of the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game are missing or turned on their heads. Athas is not a place of shining knights and robed wizards, of deep forests and divine pantheons. To venture over the sands ofAthas is to enter a world of savagery and splendor that draws on different traditions of fantasy and storytelling. Simple survival beneath the deep red sun is often its own adventure. Newcomers to Athas have much to learn about the world, its people, and its monsters, but the following eight characteristics encapsulate the most important features of the DARK SUN campaign setting.

1. THE WORLD IS A DESERT

Athas is a hot, arid planet covered with endless seas of dunes, lifeless salt flats, stony wastes, rocky bad lands, thorny scrublands, and worse. From the first moments of dawn, the crimson sun beats down from an olive tinged sky. Temperatures routinely exceed 100 degrees F. by midmorning and can reach 130 degrees or more by late afternoon. The wind is like the blast of a furnace, offering no relief from the oppressive heat. Dust and sand borne on the breeze coat everything with yellow-orange silt.

In this forbidding world, cities and villages exist only in a few oases or verdant plains. Some places don't see rain for years at a time, and even in fertile regions, rain is little more than a humid mist that falls during a few weeks each year before giving way to long months of heat and drought. The world beyond these islands of civilization is a wasteland roamed by nomads, raiders, and hungry monsters. Athas was not always a desert, and the parched landscape is dotted with the crumbling ruins of a planet that once was rich with rivers and seas. Ancient bridges over dry watercourses and empty stone quays that face seas of sand tell the tale of a world that is no more.

2. THE WORLD IS SAVAGE

Life on Athas is brutal and short. Bloodthirsty raiders, greedy slavers, and hordes of inhuman savages overrun the deserts and wastelands. The cities are little better; each chokes in the grip of an ageless tyrant. The institution of slavery is widespread on Athas, and many unfortunates spend their lives in chains, toiling for brutal taskmasters. Every year hundreds of slaves, perhaps thousands, are sent to their deaths in bloody arena spectacles. Charity, compassion, kindness- these qualities exist, but they are rare and precious. Only a fool hopes for such riches.

3. METAL IS SCARCE

Most arms and armor are made of bone, stone, wood, and other such materials. Mail or plate armor exists only in the treasuries of the sorcerer-kings. Steel blades are almost priceless, weapons that many heroes never see during their lifetimes.

4. ARCANE MAGIC DEFILES THE WORLD

The reckless use of arcane magic during ancient wars reduced Athas to a wasteland. To cast an arcane spell, one must gather power from the living world nearby. Plants wither to black ash, crippling pain wracks animals and people, and the soil is sterilized; nothing can grow in that spot again. It is possible to cast spells with care, preserving the world and avoiding any more damage to it, but defiling offers more power than preserving. As a result, sorcerers, wizards, and other wielders of arcane magic are reviled and persecuted across Athas regardless ofwhether they preserve or defile. Only the most powerful spellcasters can wield arcane might without fear of reprisal.

5. SORCERER-KINGS RULE THE CITY-STATES

Terrible defilers of immense power rule all but one of the city-states. These mighty spellcasters have held their thrones for centuries; no one alive remembers a time before the sorcerer-kings. Some claim to be gods, and some claim to serve gods. Some are brutal oppressors, where others are more subtle in their tyranny. The sorcerer-kings govern through priesthoods or bureaucracies of greedy, ambitious templars, lesser defilers who can call upon the kings' powers. Only in the city-state ofTyr does a glimmer offreedom beckon, and powerful forces already conspire to extinguish it.

6. THE GODS ARE SILENT

Long ago, when the planet was green, the brutal might of the primordials overcame the gods. Today, Athas is a world without deities. There are no clerics, no paladins, and no prophets or religious orders. Old shrines and crumbling temples lie amid the ancient ruins, testimony to a time when the gods spoke to the people ofAthas. Nothing is heard now but the sighing of the desert wind.

In the absence of divine influence, other powers have come to prominence in the world. Psionic power is well known and widely practiced on Athas; even unintelligent desert monsters can have deadly psionic abilities. Shamans and druids call upon the primal powers of the world, which are often sculpted by the influence of elemental power.

7. FIERCE MONSTERS ROAM THE WORLD

The desert planet has its own deadly ecology. Athas has no cattle, swine, or horses; instead, people tend flocks of erdlus, ride on kanks or crodlus, and draw wagons with mixes and mekillots. Wild creatures such as lions, bears, and wolves are nonexistent. In their place are terrors such as the id fiend, the baazrag, and the tembo. Perhaps the harsh environment of Athas breeds creatures tough and vicious enough to survive it, or maybe the touch of ancient sorcery poisoned the wellsprings of life and inflicted monster after monster on the dying world. Either way, the deserts are perilous, and only a fool or a lunatic travels them alone.

8. FAMILIAR RACES AREN'T WHAT YOU EXPECT

Typical fantasy stereotypes don't apply to Athasian heroes. In many DUNGEONS & DRAGONS settings, elves are wise, benevolent forest dwellers who guard their homelands from intrusions of evil. On Athas, elves are a nomadic race of herders, raiders, peddlers, and thieves. Halflings aren't amiable riverfolk; they're xenophobic headhunters and cannibals who hunt and kill trespassers in their mountain forests. Goliaths or half-giants, as they are commonly known are brutal mercenaries who serve as elite guards and enforcers for the sorcerer kings and their templars in many city-states.


ABOUT THE DARK SUN CAMPAIGN SETTING

The original DARK SUN campaign setting, by Troy Denning and Tim Brown, was published by TSR, Inc., in 1991 for the 2nd Edition DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game. Strikingly illustrated by renowned fantasy artist Gerald Brom, DARK SUN offered a compelling new vision for the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game, one that broke free of the traditional medieval trappings of fantasy roleplaying. Troy Denning went on to write a five part novel series, the Prism Pentad, telling the story of the revolution in Tyr and the downfall of the sorcerer-kings. More than thirty game supplements, adventures, and boxed sets supported the setting, along with novels, short stories, and articles in Dragon magazine.

This new version of the DARK SUN campaign setting returns to the days immediately after King Kalak's overthrow, when freedom glimmers weakly in a single city-state and ancient evils begin to stir once again. You can still find 2nd Edition DARK SUN game products online or in used bookstores, but this new edition of the setting is a reimagining of the campaign world as its story begins. People, places, and events described in older products might be different (or absent) in this edition. Likewise, this edition of DARK SUN introduces many elements of DUNGEONS & DRAGONS 4th Edition-for example, new character races and classes-that were not part of the 2nd Edition setting.

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If that doesn't make you want to bust out your dice bag I don't know what will.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
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I thought Dark Sun was always a great setting. It came late in D&D's life cycle and didn't have an ubiquitous fantasy novel written about it like FR and Dragonlance did.
 

kaid

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I thought Dark Sun was always a great setting. It came late in D&D's life cycle and didn't have an ubiquitous fantasy novel written about it like FR and Dragonlance did.
Dark sun did not have as many books written in it but it had a couple really good series. The prism pentad was excellent but the series I liked more revolved around a character who had what appeared to be multiple personalities. It wound up involving the quest for raising up basically an opposite of the dragons a powerful preserver that was transforming to a benevolent form of mastery over magic that could help counteract the desertification caused in part by the dragon kings.
 

kaid

Blackwing Lair Raider
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The higher power level is a selling point and it was very different than the traditional Greyhawke/Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance high fantasy type stuff but I don't really know anyone that ran a campaign of Dark Sun, or Spelljammer, or any of the other unique settings for more than a couple weeks.



Most campaigns I've played in and even the ones I've ran usually involve a bunch of small town yokels in the backwoods nowhere that find themselves thrust into the larger world as they combat the evil that plagues their homes etc etc. Basically they all start like Secret of Mana or Star Wars. Pretty standard monomyth hero of a thousand faces stuff.
One of the interesting things about the original dark sun is they actually prompted you to make I think three character and gave some rules for how they can be kept up to date with your primary. They fully expected a fair amount of player casualties due to the harshness of the world shoddy quality of equipment and lack of armor. This was not a world you had character in their +5 plate armor of fear and flame it was holy shit I got a +1 wood spear that won't break in combat any more woots.
 

Vaclav

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Anyone seen torrents up for the new edition yet? If so PM please.

Curious to read it early (already read the "starter kit" thing and like it) but would like to start the reading before my Amazon order gets here on the 19th without paying the extra $25 getting it at the gaming store.
 

Himeo

Vyemm Raider
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I went out and picked up the Starter Kit, Player's Handbook, and the first published adventure "Tyranny of Dragons: Hoard of the Dragon Queen".

My local gaming store is awesome and has a close relationship with WotC so we got stuff a week earlier than everyone else.

Just wish I had a way to PLAY the damn thing.
 

Chanur

Shit Posting Professional
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Yeah I don't know anyone out here that games and looking over the Wizards boards did not see much in the area.
 

Vaclav

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I went out and picked up the Starter Kit, Player's Handbook, and the first published adventure "Tyranny of Dragons: Hoard of the Dragon Queen".

My local gaming store is awesome and has a close relationship with WotC so we got stuff a week earlier than everyone else.

Just wish I had a way to PLAY the damn thing.
Yea, my LGS has it right now too (although didn't see the adventure maybe behind the counter though, didn't ask) - just can't justify spending MSRP on it after 4E until I see where it's at quality wise.
 

Chanur

Shit Posting Professional
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I would like to support a local gaming shop but I'm not going to drive 2 and s half hours each way to do it .
 

Mist

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The Dark Sun sourcebooks and Dune were big inspirations for me when I wrote my own campaign world material, but I ended up not wanting to do a whole campaign based around wasteland aesthetics. I kept the resource politics angle of Dune and some of the 'using up all the magic' themes of Dark Sun and and went more in the direction of urban political intrigue mixed with colonial exploitation and some exploration to break up the monotony of both.

I wanted a setting where a traditional fantasy world was in the midst of maturing into one of realpolitik. It worked for a while until characters got so powerful (hard for politics to matter when you can assassinate anyone in the world that isn't a CR20+ with an army of personal bodyguards) it ended up being more absurd and super hero/Final Fantasy-esque than anything else, minus the whole spikey haired emo protagonists.
 

Grimsark

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My second favorite, almost as much as Dark Sun, was Planescape.
I think its because I was never able to get a campaign started in it... So I was never as close to it.

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Himeo

Vyemm Raider
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Yea, my LGS has it right now too (although didn't see the adventure maybe behind the counter though, didn't ask) - just can't justify spending MSRP on it after 4E until I see where it's at quality wise.
I loved 4E and I'm still bummed the only books I was able to afford back then were PHB, MM, DMG1, and DMG 2. I used torrents for everything else. I have the entire published 4E library on an 8G tablet. 4E is my edition.

But I regret not being able to financially support it at the time. Sure, WotC abandoned it before it was complete. But they made an awesome game I love. Why should anyone be bitter about that?

Also, 5E is pretty much free to play for the first 5 levels from a player perspective. There's no reason not to try it. If you like it, and you have the cash, what's wrong with paying MSRP?

I mean, shit, pay it forward right? I may abandon 5E and return to 4E. But there are lots of kids for whom 5E will be their edition. A lot of them will be in the same boat I was. Just seems like a dick move to not support WotC if you have the cash.

Then again, 3.5 players have no class, so I'm not surprised. They already killed 1 edition. I have no doubt they'll turn on 5th and go back to playing Pathfinder.
 

Himeo

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So I finally got around to reading the rules for 5e. 95% of this game is 3.5 repackaged.

I'm really sad.
 

Vaclav

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Yea part of my worry. (I am buying just from Amazon with the delay)
 

Grimsark

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So I finally got around to reading the rules for 5e. 95% of this game is 3.5 repackaged.

I'm really sad.
It is a thankless job reinventing/refurbishing something that people are as intimately familiar with as an RPG mechanic. It is a tool that made our imaginations come to life... And those bastards are ruining it!! AGAIN!!

Some of the criticism I remember about 2e when it came out, was that they ruined the uniqueness of classes by creating proficiencies and such generous multi-classing. But generally, 2e was 1st edition, with a few caveats.

Some of the criticism I remember about 3e when it came out, was that they took the ROLE out of Role Playing!! Too many numbers, dice, and game mats!! It became more about fighting monsters than developing a character. But generally 3e (and 3.5e) was merely 2e with an emphasis on what people wanted more of... And has remained the most popular of the 4 current versions to date. (evident in its spiritual successor, Pathfinder)

Some criticisms for 4e, were that the game became an MMORPG on paper. Cool downs? Short, long resting?!? Power parity?? Tiers?!? Paths?!? 4e was about as different from its predecessor as you could get without making it a completely different game... Many 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition players called it D&D in name only. I can't claim any more than anecdotal evidence, but by my observations less than 50% of 3e and 3.5e players made the move to 4e, precisely because it did away with (or fundamentally changed) so many core D&D mechanics.

And now 5e is barely off the press and people are complaining that its 3.75e... But what would you be saying if it wasn't?!?

I am not saying that people aren't entitled to their opinions. I am trying to point out that if you look hard enough, you will find whatever you need to justify your own preconceptions... I doubt previous edition books will be burned to make room on shelves for 5e. If you don't want to play it, you don't have to. And who knows, once you actually start to, you may end up enjoying it after all. Which is how it was for me with 4e. It took a few sessions, but eventually the shock, gave way to genuine enjoyment and an appreciation for what was done right, rather than everything I wanted to see wrong.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
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It's a business, I understand, but at a certain point wouldn't you just assume that they've gotten it right and want new campaigns instead of new rulesets?


Nah, nevermind at a certain point there is no way to keep new campaigns fresh without shuffling up the rules a bit. It's just the nature of the format.
 

OneofOne

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Then again, 3.5 players have no class, so I'm not surprised. They already killed 1 edition. I have no doubt they'll turn on 5th and go back to playing Pathfinder.
That seems unnecessarily assholish. What's got your underwear bunched up? You think 3.5 players killed 4e by... not playing it because it sucked?
 

Xasten_sl

shitlord
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3.5 was an amazing edition. It had a lot of flaws, but find one that didn't. It's taken years for many groups to patch over the holes, and a lot of campaigns are held together with houserule duct tape, but it's still stood up pretty well. Pathfinder's existence is a testament to how well the d20 system has worked. 5th edition may not be what I'm looking for ultimately, but I'll give it a shot. Making it 3.75 is probably the best way to go about it.
 

Gavinmad

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I always thought 3.5 was the biggest joke. It was basically just a few errata and house rules that they milked for an entire new edition. At least they actually tried something new for 4th ed.