Edge of Tomorrow (2014)

Void · Oct 8, 2014

Hoss_sl said:
Hell, I forgot what the argument was about. Wasn't it more along the lines of cruise saying, hey general, I'm convincing these boys to sign up and die, you need to stop sacrificing them by doing stupid shit? I thought he took more of a 'war is bad' stance and he didn't like that everyone hated him for getting their sons killed.

Not even close. He simply didn't want to be on the front lines because he was scared as fuck of dying. He implied that he could easily make it look like the General was the bad guy if he wanted, instead of the good guy the General wants to be portrayed as, which is why the General asks if he's trying to blackmail him.

It was entirely Cruise's character being terrified of being on the front lines and dying. Nothing more.

This is one of my favorite movies in a long time. If it weren't for Guardians of the Galaxy coming out the same year, this would be my favorite of the year easily. And I prefer this "time loop mechanic" to the whole "server and backups" thing of the manga.

Foggy · Oct 9, 2014

Vvoid_sl said:
Not even close. He simply didn't want to be on the front lines because he was scared as fuck of dying. He implied that he could easily make it look like the General was the bad guy if he wanted, instead of the good guy the General wants to be portrayed as, which is why the General asks if he's trying to blackmail him.

It was entirely Cruise's character being terrified of being on the front lines and dying. Nothing more.

This is one of my favorite movies in a long time. If it weren't for Guardians of the Galaxy coming out the same year, this would be my favorite of the year easily. And I prefer this "time loop mechanic" to the whole "server and backups" thing of the manga.

Pretty much this. Cruise was a pussy in the beginning and tried to blackmail the General into not going. The General stopped that shit real quick.

My problem with the movie version of the loop vs manga is the random, "I lost it because I received blood. I can feel its gone." That is some weak shit. In the end I didn't really care, but there has to be a better way of knowing it is gone.

The only change that disappointed me was how they changed the interactions between Cruise and Rita from the manga. My favorite part of the manga was when she realizes somebody else is experiencing the hell she is going through and she breaks down.

Grimmlokk · Oct 9, 2014

Foggy_sl said:
The only change that disappointed me was how they changed the interactions between Cruise and Rita from the manga. My favorite part of the manga was when she realizes somebody else is experiencing the hell she is going through and she breaks down.

That's what I said.

"The scene where they meet in the manga, like for real not on the battlefield but after she knows he's looping, is waaay better than in the movie. Wouldn't have worked with the characters in the movie though."

It was genuinely emotional and you really felt like she had been all alone going throughsome shitfor so long, that the relief of not being the only one just broke her down.

But they didn't really set her up like that in the movie at all, so it would have just been weird to see that version react so emotionally.

Really powerful scene though.

Sabbat · Oct 10, 2014

Deathwing_sl said:
Taking the (permanent)consequences out of death might change the psychological impact it has one someone. More to the point, I don't think the movie was interested in telling that part of the story. Just like when Cruise is in the bar and the old guys are wondering why the aliens are here. The movie spells out for the audience it doesn't care about that part of the story.

As always, Deathwing is wrong.

The scene showing him taking off on the motorcycle was him saying "Fuck it, I'm tired and I'm done with this shit." At this point in the movie he's watched Rita die over and over again, trying to get off the beach and gives up. It's the scene after this that he accepts that his only way out is to succeed in the mission, and turns up for training earlier than usual. The motorcycle scene, placed perfectly between watching him and Rita make slow but steady progress with hundreds of deaths to reach that point, and the next that shows him up early to take on the world CLEARLY shows that the movie DOES care about showing the audience the psychological impacts repeating the same day over and over without a way out, without a ham-fisted exposition.

Hoss · Oct 10, 2014

Vvoid_sl said:
Not even close. He simply didn't want to be on the front lines because he was scared as fuck of dying. He implied that he could easily make it look like the General was the bad guy if he wanted, instead of the good guy the General wants to be portrayed as, which is why the General asks if he's trying to blackmail him.

It was entirely Cruise's character being terrified of being on the front lines and dying. Nothing more.

This is one of my favorite movies in a long time. If it weren't for Guardians of the Galaxy coming out the same year, this would be my favorite of the year easily. And I prefer this "time loop mechanic" to the whole "server and backups" thing of the manga.

Well then, we're back to it not making sense that the general wanted to put him on the front line. Maybe he hated cruise as much as I do.

Sabbat · Oct 10, 2014

Christ, Hoss, you're as bad as Deathwing.

Cage was going to be on the least active part of the invasion, it was supposed to be under/un defended. He was "embedded with several hundred thousand men and woman that were combat ready". He was to have camera crews... he wasn't going to be sent in as an active combatant... right up until Cage decided he was going to blackmail the General to get off the job completely. That's the moment Cage got black-balled and shipped of as a deserter -- to join the front line.

Phoenix Prime_sl · Oct 10, 2014

You're all wrong about the first scene with the general. The general did not want to take responsibility for the deaths of soldiers storming the beach. The remark of soldiers being sent home in body bags. His plan was to send Cruise onto the beach so that the people would look at him and blame cruise for everything rather the general. He wanted a fall guy to take the blame for everything if shit hit the fan. Cruise turns it around and says he can still make him the bad guy and thats when he gets black balled by the general.

Arakkis · Oct 10, 2014

That makes absolutely no sense.

Nester · Oct 10, 2014

Phoenix Prime_sl said:
You're all wrong about the first scene with the general. The general did not want to take responsibility for the deaths of soldiers storming the beach. The remark of soldiers being sent home in body bags. His plan was to send Cruise onto the beach so that the people would look at him and blame cruise for everything rather the general. He wanted a fall guy to take the blame for everything if shit hit the fan. Cruise turns it around and says he can still make him the bad guy and thats when he gets black balled by the general.

Swing and a miss....

Deathwing · Oct 10, 2014

Sabbat_sl said:
As always, Deathwing is wrong.

The scene showing him taking off on the motorcycle was him saying "Fuck it, I'm tired and I'm done with this shit." At this point in the movie he's watched Rita die over and over again, trying to get off the beach and gives up. It's the scene after this that he accepts that his only way out is to succeed in the mission, and turns up for training earlier than usual. The motorcycle scene, placed perfectly between watching him and Rita make slow but steady progress with hundreds of deaths to reach that point, and the next that shows him up early to take on the world CLEARLY shows that the movie DOES care about showing the audience the psychological impacts repeating the same day over and over without a way out, without a ham-fisted exposition.

What's your problem? Still sandy that I was right about monks in D3?

The specific topic, way to quote something 2 weeks old, btw, was about Cage's repeated temporary deaths affecting himself. Rita's possibly permanent deaths were quite obviously affected him, nobody was debating that. Nor was anyone debating the impact of frustrating repetition and failure.

Void · Oct 10, 2014

Phoenix Prime_sl said:
You're all wrong about the first scene with the general. The general did not want to take responsibility for the deaths of soldiers storming the beach. The remark of soldiers being sent home in body bags. His plan was to send Cruise onto the beach so that the people would look at him and blame cruise for everything rather the general. He wanted a fall guy to take the blame for everything if shit hit the fan. Cruise turns it around and says he can still make him the bad guy and thats when he gets black balled by the general.

Do you guys even watch these movies?

Fuck, I'm going to even see if I can find the dialogue to quote it here, I'm so rustled.

This is from the subtitles, so forgive the timing notations, but it is already more time than I should have had to take to explain this if people actually paid attention.

A lot of good soldiers
are gonna die tomorrow, major.

67
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:14,845
When all the smoke clears...

68
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,481
...and the body bags start coming home,
people look for someone to blame...

69
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,370
...someone like me.

70
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,080
Ideally, I'd prefer a different scenario.

71
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:23,800
Please.

72
00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:27,366
A best-selling memoir, perhaps.

73
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,445
Maybe a career in politics?

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00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,042
Off the top of my head,
I would go with...

75
00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:37,123
...the sense of manifest destiny.

76
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,408
Rags to riches.
Rapid rise through the ranks.

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00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,486
Born to deliver us. And the people,
well, they love that sort of thing.

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00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,287
You misunderstand. I didn't ask you here
to sell me. Sell the invasion.

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00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:49,040
Okay.

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00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,409
You ship for the coast in one hour.
Your camera crew is standing by.

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00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,603
You'll be on the beach
with the first wave.

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00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,971
I'm sorry, the first wave? The beach?
You mean the front?

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00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:02,201
France.

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00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,406
Satellites show minimal
enemy movement on the coast.

85
00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:06,971
Little resistance.

86
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:08,969
A little excitement,
something to tell your grandchildren.

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00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:10,446
While I appreciate...

88
00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,409
...the confidence, general...

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00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,722
...I do this to avoid doing that.

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00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,764
I was in ROTC in college.

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00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,442
The war broke out,
I lost my advertising firm...

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00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,121
...and here I am.

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00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,170
You know, I do what I do,
and you do what you do.

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00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:31,601
But...

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00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:35,083
...I'm not a soldier, really.

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00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:37,361
No, of course you're not.

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00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,246
I'm embedding you with several
hundred thousand who are.

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00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:44,204
While it is an honor,
I'm afraid I'm gonna have to decline.

99
00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,484
Can't stand the sight of blood.
Not so much as a paper out.

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00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,607
But...

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00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:58,320
...sitting here thinking about this...

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00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,528
...a couple of names come to mind...

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00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,684
...that I feel I could recommend to you.

104
00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,008
It's not an offer, major. It's an order.

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00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,726
General, I am an officer
in the United States military.

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00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,804
- You don't even have the authority.
- I have spoken to your CO.

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00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:16,691
You are now under my command.

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00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:18,806
You will retain your present rank...

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00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,644
...of course.

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00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,211
My secretary has all the details.

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00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:26,650
Do a good job, major.

112
00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,247
Good luck. You are dismissed.

113
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:45,246
General?

114
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,965
I just inspired millions of people
to join your army.

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00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,603
And when the body bags come home
and they're looking...

116
00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:01,322
...for someone to blame,
how hard do you think it would be...

117
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,683
...for me to convince people
to blame you?

118
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:06,763
I'd imagine...

119
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,685
...the general would prefer to avoid that.

120
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:14,965
Are you blackmailing me, major?

121
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:17,810
I would prefer...

122
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,365
...not to be filming acts of heroism
and valor on that beach tomorrow.

123
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,411
You won't be.

124
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,048
I'm glad we could, work this out.

125
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,009
Now if you'll excuse me, general. I...

126
00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:50,160
Thank you.

127
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,166
Arrest this man.

Foggy · Oct 10, 2014

Grimmlokk_sl said:
That's what I said.

"The scene where they meet in the manga, like for real not on the battlefield but after she knows he's looping, is waaay better than in the movie. Wouldn't have worked with the characters in the movie though."

It was genuinely emotional and you really felt like she had been all alone going throughsome shitfor so long, that the relief of not being the only one just broke her down.

But they didn't really set her up like that in the movie at all, so it would have just been weird to see that version react so emotionally.

Really powerful scene though.

Ya, not sure why they just made Rita a complete hard ass when they cast a capable actress like Blunt. She could have been much more complex. Oh well. Still loved the movie.

Hoss · Oct 10, 2014

Well, I was going to say I'd have to see the scene again to refresh my memory, but vvoid took care of that. So, it makes sense why the argument started, but it still doesn't make sense why he went into scorned woman mode so quick. Unless, like I said, he just hates cruise as much as I do. AKA plot device.

Rezz · Oct 10, 2014

Well, look at it this way:

This general has actually seen what the enemy can do to his troops, magic-suits or not. He knows the numbers first hand. Cruise selling the world that it is winnable is, in the General's perspective, pretty much wrong. But he needs to make that clear from the beachhead, so he wants the guy who is selling the world that it is winnable what reality really is. Like "you wear the suit that doesn't actually work and then tell us it works" type mentality. Him arresting cruise is both a response to Cruise's threat and the need for catharsis regarding the potentially avoidable deaths that Cruise has semi-inspired.

I mean I see it, but it isn't really spelled out in giant letters in the movie.

edit: reread the scene: it does look like the general is protecting his ass to a degree from the dialogue. But it definitely seems like there are some undertones that belie the situation.

Ridas · Oct 11, 2014

The general thinks, they win the fight. But of course there will be casualties. So he wants to send Cruise there to sell their victory properly, so he doesnt get shat on. Thats basically it. And then Cruise tries to blackmail himself out of it, because he is scared and the General doesnt like to be blackmailed. The end.

Void · Oct 11, 2014

Ridas_sl said:
The general thinks, they win the fight. But of course there will be casualties. So he wants to send Cruise there to sell their victory properly, so he doesnt get shat on. Thats basically it. And then Cruise tries to blackmail himself out of it, because he is scared and the General doesnt like to be blackmailed. The end.

Exactly.

iannis · Oct 11, 2014

That's one part of the movie I actually thought was lazy. Really the general is a giant douchebag for the sole purpose of being a giant douchebag. I get they were going for the "i'll win this at any cost" personality, and that's fine. They almost pulled it off -- it comes across that way if you don't bother to think about it. And sentencing cruise to death for cowardice is also fine. And even the history that Rita describes can fit into that idea.

But he's apparently never heard of stationing guards inside his office. Apparently his solution to every problem is to let the crazy person / potential mimic into his office, smile at them, give them exactly what they want, and then let them leave his office. And then sick his office guards on them. You would think that he might be a bit more efficient than that.

iannis · Oct 11, 2014

That's one part of the movie I actually thought was lazy. Really the general is a giant douchebag for the sole purpose of being a giant douchebag. I get they were going for the "i'll win this at any cost" personality, and that's fine. They almost pulled it off -- it comes across that way if you don't bother to think about it. And sentencing cruise to death for cowardice is also fine. And even the history that Rita describes can fit into that idea.

But he's apparently never heard of stationing guards inside his office. Apparently his solution to every problem is to let the crazy person / potential mimic into his office, smile at them, give them exactly what they want, and then let them leave his office. And then sick his office guards on them. You would think that he might be a bit more efficient than that.

Ridas · Oct 11, 2014

What are you rambling about, Iannis? He is degrading him to a grunt. It is not a death sentence per se, but he wont be heavily embedded in a fight, that most higher ups assume will be easily won.

And why would he have guards in his office, when he is speaking in confidence with an officer of the US army? Potential mimic? What?

iannis · Oct 11, 2014

He degraded him to a frontline grunt, not just any old grunt. Remember how he doesn't even know how to turn off the safety? And while they expect a victory they also expect heavy casualties -- the general expects it, the troops expect it, the drill sergeant expects it, cruise expects it. Hence the reason for calling cruise to do a PR piece embedded with the troops to begin with. The general passed a death sentence on cruise. The movie itself isn't ambiguous about that. And that much is fine. Rather than hanging him from the flagpole he's making use of him to at least provide another target for the mimics, and maybe save the life of a worth soldier in the process.

The movie is a little more ambiguous about Rita, but remember her "Hey... you'll get dissected for research experiments if you tell him. You're not the first person to think of that. I've tried."

I see what they were going for with the high commander, and it mostly works, but it was a bit lazy. It's in the back end of the movie. It doesn't fall apart unless you think about his character. The only thing I can think of that makes any sense for him giving them that piece of deus-ex tech and then once they're out of his office putting the swat team on them is that he concludes they are enemy agents (potential mimics). And even that doesn't make much sense. And you might think that he has a guard or two stationed nearby, being as that he is the high commander and sort of an important person.

It's fine. It didn't ruin the movie. It's just a part I thought was a little lazy. For that part you just have to go "oh, ok, he's just an asshole." An analogue of that was also in the book.

Edge of Tomorrow (2014)

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