EQ Never

Randin_sl said:

Even if there isn't (and if there isn't at launch, I would fully expect god-specific cleric, pally, and sk classes to show up eventually), with multi-classing, it shouldn't be too hard to custom-make one if you wish. Take a paladin, mix in some druid, and you've got a paladin of Tunare (or I guess Erolisi, for EQN); take a cleric, add some thief, and you've got a cleric of Bristlebane (or whatever the thief god's name is in EQN).

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There will absolutely not be deity specific classes created by SOE. I guarantee you that. So this is about as close as you'll get.

Now, what might happen is something they touched upon in the class panel (dwarves kegs example). If you have a hardon Cazic Thule or Erolissi or whatever, and you spend a ton of time doing thing that they find pleasing, you may get a permanent ability for your character based on that deity. Similarly, you may get an ability for hanging out in the Elf city for long periods of time, or slaying vast amounts of orcs. They'll be like achievements, but awesomer.

Randin_sl said:

Even if there isn't (and if there isn't at launch, I would fully expect god-specific cleric, pally, and sk classes to show up eventually), with multi-classing, it shouldn't be too hard to custom-make one if you wish. Take a paladin, mix in some druid, and you've got a paladin of Tunare (or I guess Erolisi, for EQN); take a cleric, add some thief, and you've got a cleric of Bristlebane (or whatever the thief god's name is in EQN).

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I can see that. With armor and weapons giving off abilities, it wouldnt be hard for this system to act like the Secret Worlds system. In that, if you have ability Q, W, E, R and Passives U, I, O, P in your repertoire, if combined together they would make a Shadow Knight of Bertox if your current God is Bertox. Its kind of cool and open ended in the secret world, so Im sure if its like that in EQ:N, I wont hate it.

Tab Targeting isnt a deal killer for me as long as they have Soft Targeting. In that, regardless of what Im targeting, my attacks will still go in the direction Im facing. I just want to be able to "Hail" people, dammit. Whats wrong with that >.>

Quaid_sl said:

There will absolutely not be deity specific classes created by SOE. I guarantee you that. So this is about as close as you'll get.

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Thats keeping a narrow minded view that would best fit the Original EverQuest. We can have deity specific classes if we have a process of some length or w/e, that would change your God. You have Catholics going to Muslim in the real world, so...

You will worship a deity through your actions, not by selecting one from a list. You may have to perform tasks in service of one to obtain a class, but that won't prevent you from obtaining other classes. Darrin confirmed this over the weekend.

So I have attended all of the EQN/LM panels at SOE Live this weekend and had a chance to talk with some of the devs.

I continue to be impressed by their team and the level of polish SOE as a whole has brought to the table over the last year.

Many of you have sat here on these boards and FOH before them bitching that a DEV team would not take risks or try something completely new. Now when a company actually decides to innovate and think outside the box you cry because you want them to make a reskinned 15 year old game with mechanics that nobody really wants to deal with anymore.

Story bricks looks amazing even if we are only seeing it in an early iteration and most of that demo looked like a game of risk. The biggest thing I took away from this weekend (Besides a cold) is that your character choices are finally going to have meaning in an MMO.

Quaid_sl said:

You will worship a deity through your actions, not by selecting one from a list.

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This.

You become a Bert priest. You don't get it handed to you at character creation.

People really need to watch the first 20 minutes of the class panel before shit posting.

Quaid_sl said:

No AAA MMORPG will ever have EQ mechanics again. Period. Just get it out of your head. You'll have a lot more fun when you do.

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Maybe - but i'm to the point now where MMOs dont hold the same appeal as they used to - most of my friends have stopped playing them now as well and with more console games having the MMO "feel" into them with their various applications of online multiplayer its hard to justify giving into just any game just to get the MMO itch scratched.

There will never be another EQ1 because everyone will want to be what WoW "was". There will never be another WoW either, no game not even WoW will reach its high point again as far as subs go.

Would be cool if in EQN they had a server with EQ1 rulesets as far as death penalty and corpse dragging and such was around, but i doubt anything like that would happen either.

Quaid_sl said:

No AAA MMORPG will ever have EQ mechanics again. Period. Just get it out of your head. You'll have a lot more fun when you do.

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As much as I have hated to admit it over the years this is true. By SOE taking the Mac Sever down and making changes to classic content, they want us to move on as well. There's a much greater population to tap into and those of us that were brought up with pencil and paper, MUD, Ultima abd EQ is a very niche crowd that isn't even guaranteed to play MMOs any longer.

I'll give EQNext a chance and look forward and welcome innovation. I just wish there was an outlet though for those of us who care for it. Someone will make EQ in Unity or bring up a Classic/Mac Emu but how many people would it truly service? Not enough to garner SoE's development resources.

I was hoping for a more scaled back class system. I like the story bricks and rally calls as they seem like great ideas but if there is one thing I like is simplified class systems to help streamline my class and it's role. That's an entirely different discussion but there's still a lot to see and it looks like Landmark will be the method it is incrementally be revealed to us.

X X E X X_sl said:

Would be cool if in EQN they had a server with EQ1 rulesets as far as death penalty and corpse dragging and such was around, but i doubt anything like that would happen either.

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EQN won't have a custom ruleset server like that, but if people want to recreate EQ1, that's pretty much what Landmark is there for. Been saying it for a year and even after all these panels I guess it still isn't clicking with people.

Will be intrigued if so, but only time will tell - but i doubt id even still be playing MMOs a couple years from now if its not out by end 2015. I havent turned on my PC in months outside media server and at some point it will just be my laptop, ipad and consoles.

Lleauaric_sl said:

Creating content isn't laborious or time consuming.

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Agree to disagree? Because my unfounded opinion is that it absolutely is time consuming.

Voxels arent making it easier, and storybricks doesnt make it easier either. Both systems offer incredible possibilities beyond current MMOs, but both also throw up additional things to consider when crafting content. Simple example: In EQ1 you cannot dig a tunnel to Nagafen in order to skip content - in EQN that situation throws up questions on how to deal with that possibility. And although the answer may be simple here (can't do that: Lava!), the voxel world will pose such questions again and again, and they cannot always go with "can't do that!" without making their whole voxel gimmick seem empty and fake. In a similar vein Storybricks will throw a whole train load of wrenches into the otherwise straightforward writing part of world creation.

Every other MMO had content creation tools for the team making the game, just because SOE makes their tools public doesnt mean it suddently takes a quarter of the time that it takes every other company to create and fill the world. I also believe that while it's great PR and a good move to engage and build a community, using playermade content is not going to save them that much time. Instead of just making Freeport in-house, they have to decide on the rules for a contest, lay out enough instructions to have the player creations match their vision of the city, have the contest run long enough for players to reasonably produce the content, then poll, judge the entries, decide on a winner, and finally tweak that creation in collaboration with the winner to fit it into the world? Hell that sounds like it'll take more time not less.

Quaid_sl said:

There will absolutely not be deity specific classes created by SOE. I guarantee you that. So this is about as close as you'll get.

Now, what might happen is something they touched upon in the class panel (dwarves kegs example). If you have a hardon Cazic Thule or Erolissi or whatever, and you spend a ton of time doing thing that they find pleasing, you may get a permanent ability for your character based on that deity. Similarly, you may get an ability for hanging out in the Elf city for long periods of time, or slaying vast amounts of orcs. They'll be like achievements, but awesomer.

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I'm sure they will makie deity specific classes eventually. It sounds like they want to keep throwing out new classes all the time, which is feasible given the limited skill set each class has. That'll lead to niche stuff coming out eventually, be it deity specific or faction specific. What I think is unlikely is race-limited classes, because that and gender seem to be only fixed points on your character (I would LOVE to see 'Amazon' as a female only class just to watch the drama)

Making a "Crusader of Prexus" that meshes well with existing paladin and water elementalist types but to unlock it you need to suck up to that particular deity is no different then making a "Defender of Kaladim" warrior type class that requires you to suck up to Kaladim factions. And they pretty much said you need to be good at sucking up to npcs in order to unlock some classes. In addition to that you are right they can opt to put the deity stuff into faction perks instead of a class but what difference does it make? In both cases you spend time to unlock stuff that allows you to customize your character. Class is no big deal with the design they are going with and they could've made it without classes and just unlocking skills and loadouts directly.

They've already made it clear they'll control where you can dig in EQN. Like it or not, that'll be the restriction. You're not just going to dig a hole straight to Naggy's lair.

Mr Creed_sl said:

Simple example: In EQ1 you cannot dig a tunnel to Nagafen in order to skip content - in EQN that situation throws up questions on how to deal with that possibility. And although the answer may be simple here (can't do that: Lava!), the voxel world will pose such questions again and again, and they cannot always go with "can't do that!" without making their whole voxel gimmick seem empty and fake.

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I get your Devil's Advocate, but there are simple things that you already mentioned like lava that impedes that kind of circumvention. Just as an example, in Landmark right now if you dig a tunnel not only is it ridiculously more time consuming if your plan is to travel underground from one end of a map to another (impossible basically), but the tunnel itself 'regenerates' after a certain amount of time passes. So even if it's you that is bypassing content, you're not really opening up the world for everyone else to do the same. Considering MMOs aren't meant to be 100% persistent, a tunnel that magically closes after a time wouldn't seem fake at all.

So assuming someone wanted to go the slow route to China method you mentioned and eventually end up where that new zone is, they aren't able to go back the same way ever again.

I would imagine its going to be something kinda cheesy, like the base floor in Minecraft. Its reasonable, and everyone knows why its there - but it still would have appeased the crowd that just wanted to tunnel down forever and ever. But suffice it to say, Im sure there will be a material that cant be dug through and itll have a small bit of lore attached to it. "Unobtainium!!!!!"

Games have done the Amazon class before - and usually just end up making the male equivalent but with a different name. Its not as drama inducing as you would think. Especially since you have a great deal of mangina's out there.

Daidraco_sl said:

I would imagine its going to be something kinda cheesy, like the base floor in Minecraft. Its reasonable, and everyone knows why its there - but it still would have appeased the crowd that just wanted to tunnel down forever and ever. But suffice it to say, Im sure there will be a material that cant be dug through and itll have a small bit of lore attached to it. "Unobtainium!!!!!"

Games have done the Amazon class before - and usually just end up making the male equivalent but with a different name. Its not as drama inducing as you would think. Especially since you have a great deal of mangina's out there.

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I want a ranged throwing spear class like Paragon from GW1.

Just so everyone is on the same page. This is the class system.

There are 6 archetypes. Martial, Nature, Divine (good and evil), Psionic, Elemental and Arcane. 40 different combinations.

In addition to this there are 7 power types each ability has. Lightning, Physical, Shadow, Water, Fire, Affliction, and Radiance. There are an Unlimited number of these... Some are granted, most have to be discovered.

Each Archetype is limited to 2 or 3 power types and has 2 slots for different powers on their bar. Combine 2 archetypes to make a class.. So Martial/Martial is warriors drawing on physical powers for its 4 class powers. Martial/Nature is the Tempest, drawing on physical and lightning powers. Wizards pull on psionic, elemental AND arcane. So you can vary the rules somewhat.

Simply and obviously, a Divine arcane class could pull on shadow and affliction, making a Bert priest if they unlocked and found the specific powers and that class combo.

In addition, you also have access to any power from other classes you have, providing they align with powers the class you have active can use. Like, you earned whirlwind a physical power, with warrior, you can slot that in your tempest class make up.

Lleauaric_sl said:

Classes and stuff

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I dont think peoples questions are arising from what and how each class works, but how they are obtained. At least, thats my question. If I eat Firona Vie's pussy, is she going to give me an entire class, abilities and all? Or is she going to give me a piece of armor that has the class defining ability on it? That when matched with other skills I have obtained from elsewhere, will come together to make a specific class? Do you see where Im going with this?

Cause from the way I understand it after watching the videos is that your abilities are based on armor and weapons, alone. A class would only be a collection of certain abilities that are accrued from certain pieces of armor and weapons that give those specific abilities. You're pretty hostile in this thread, so my bad if this angers you...

Classes and achievements give you abilities, items modify how they interact with each other.

@LLeauaric: I understand their systems, I just think you underestimate the effort and time that will have to go into it. Similarities to it are found in CCGs, GW1 or D&D 4th Edition. Ensuring acceptable balance is going to be a bitch. And I dont even mean avoiding obviously OP stuff, there's also a real danger of most abilities simply being bad and going unused. One of the panelists kinda adressed that as an issue they are aware of so when aswering a question at the end. Good that they are aware but still alot of work.

Lleauaric_sl said:

In addition, you also have access to any power from other classes you have, providing they align with powers the class you have active can use. Like, you earned whirlwind a physical power, with warrior, you can slot that in your tempest class make up.

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So this limits the multiclass combinations quite a bit. Are you sure about this, or would Whirlwind just be more powerful on your tempest? I didn't hear them say that explicitly but I was hoping someone would ask that question.

I thought last year they talked about the class limiting the type of skill selections, like Offensive, defensive, travel, utility. For instance a Warrior could have 3 Offensive, 2 Defensive and 1 Travel, where a Rogue might have 4 Offensive and 1 Travel. Is that gone or was I just imagining it?

Daidraco_sl said:

I dont think peoples questions are arising from what and how each class works, but how they are obtained. At least, thats my question. If I eat Firona Vie's pussy, is she going to give me an entire class, abilities and all? Or is she going to give me a piece of armor that has the class defining ability on it? That when matched with other skills I have obtained from elsewhere, will come together to make a specific class? Do you see where Im going with this?

Cause from the way I understand it after watching the videos is that your abilities are based on armor and weapons, alone. A class would only be a collection of certain abilities that are accrued from certain pieces of armor and weapons that give those specific abilities. You're pretty hostile in this thread, so my bad if this angers you...

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When you unlock a class, you will unlock an entire class which == 4 weapon abilities, 4 character abilities and the armor you can wear. You can change your weapon which brings new weapon abilities for the class you are currently playing. You can modify the way abilities interact by using items.

The character abilities are the ones you can swap out with ones from other classes you have unlocked.

Best thing is to check out the Curse recording of last years panel:EQ Next: Class Panel @ SOE Live 1/2 - YouTube

Lleauaric_sl said:

Using a small amount of common sense would tell that followers of different gods would earn distinct abilities, gear and powers.

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Randin_sl said:

Even if there isn't (and if there isn't at launch, I would fully expect god-specific cleric, pally, and sk classes to show up eventually), with multi-classing, it shouldn't be too hard to custom-make one if you wish. Take a paladin, mix in some druid, and you've got a paladin of Tunare (or I guess Erolisi, for EQN); take a cleric, add some thief, and you've got a cleric of Bristlebane (or whatever the thief god's name is in EQN).

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And that's exactly the way it shouldn't be. A class, paladin and SK especially, shouldn't be able to follow any deity. There's a difference between customization and incoherent blandness becauseeverythingis a template.

We're never getting another EQ. This industry is too far down the toilet bowl to be recovered.