EQ Never

Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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Vitality_sl said:
I speak of Exploiting in strict terms of knowing predetermined AI patterns and abusing triggers for personal gains. Like killing 10 dwarves then 10 ogres show up, then you switch sides and kill 10 ogres, then 10 dwarves show up. That kind of trigger exploiting etc.

I can't really see a way for SOE to stop this without putting trigger cooldowns or faction/interactable locks on their content. Which would just make it a Public Quest at that point.
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Creslin_sl said:
I just really dont think something like that is an exploit. Besides I have never seen a faction system that let you kill 10 enemy then 10 friendlies and come out as a net neutral, so doing that type of thing will tank your faction fast I bet.

Some neckbeard is always gonna min max his way to an early cancellation, who really cares. Devs who try to combat that shit end up doing far more damage to their games than if they just let the powergamers do their thing, all they really need to concern themselves with is if that gameplay becomes widespread and is less fun than actually playing as intended.

A sandbox is about going out and having fun, I played some sandboxes for years after I hit the point where I didn't really need to log in any more. Its a game type that essentially has no endgame, so there is no reason to rush and nothing to rush towards.
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Creslin has the right idea there, and I agree that the chain of events Vitality describes is not really exploiting. It's tanking two factions at the same time for some kind of gain, a situation where he as a player decided the standing loss is worth it for the gains he achieves through it. As long as that trade-off and decision is there, the situation is fine with me. If it doesnt matter because it's too easily fixed or meaningless in the first place, I consider their claims of having consequences as a failure.

They need to focus on making factions matter again. There was some meaning to them back in vanilla EQ, mostly race-based and downsides to killing everyone and everything, you limited your options of using some druid rings, banking in some places, and so on. Small stuff but it mattered enough to pay some attention to or at least acknowledge it. Velious was neat too but very stratified already, not the wide web of interwoven factions of classic. Ever since then factions have been a loot dispenser you need to level up first, with no decisions or downsides attached. That's lame and could be much more, I hope EQN goes all in on making your interactions with the world matter.
 
Vitality

Vitality

ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
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a_skeleton_02_sl said:
This,

I'm not sure why.. Who cares if you can exploit NPCs for ability points or what ever. probably won't be and even if it is more efficient who cares?

it took months to hit max level

No MMO will ever be hard, Hell EQ in 99 wasn't hard
\ will be a Korean grinder and be DOA anyways.

the exploit gives you items or faction that it should not normally give you sounds like an expoit.
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You don't seem to care
 
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Creslin

Trakanon Raider
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Vitality_sl said:
So you're not going to care that the Metaphorical Orc Scalp market gets shit on because I can infinitely trigger metaphorical orc spawns?
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Well you would need to find some spawn of mobs that is otherwise rare that is for some reason spawning in a loop and it would have to drop something really good that you can sell, and even if it did it would have to drop so much of it that you can affect market prices. We don't really know much about the world size yet, we do know forgelight now supports up to 126x126km maps, so like the size of Connecticut.
 
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a_skeleton_02

<Banned>
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Mr Creed_sl said:
I hope EQN goes all in on making your interactions with the world matter.
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well the good news is that these are the five pillars EQN is designed off of

Multi-Classing - EQN will offer players the ability to explore and interact with the world according to their individual style of play. There are no levels in EQN, but there will be more than 40 distinct classes (or professions) at launch, with multi-tiered abilities and specialized weapon skills to collect and master. Players will even mix and match abilities from each class, creating truly custom characters that feel distinct and powerful.

Destructible Environments - No modern MMO has successfully implemented destructible environments that stretch across an entire seamless game world -- this changes forever with EQN. Every piece of the world is fully destructible and players will have the ability to manipulate almost all of it. They will interact with and explore the world in amazing ways; venturing down into the deep bedrock beneath the surface and using powerful combat abilities to blow gaping holes into the ground. The EQN world will extend far into the heavens and deep into the procedurally-generated earth through 10,000 years of known lore and history.

Permanent Change - Players will also have the ability to cause the world to change around them, permanently, in dramatic ways. Through the concerted effort of the world's inhabitants, including players, creatures, and non-player characters (NPCs), city walls will be built and destroyed, large-scale wars will be fought and won, and epic stories will unfold over months and years.

Emergent AI - In EQN, NPCs will have specific motivations and preferences that direct behavior in nuanced and unpredictable ways. Players will find themselves in a world where NPC decisions are based on core values, not dictated by static spawn points. For example, Orcs may attack opportunistically because they want an adventurer's gold, not simply because a careless hero wanders into an attack radius.

A Life of Consequence - Finally, each character in EQN will have a unique story; they will not follow a predetermined path. Instead, they will seek out adventure, fame and fortune in a constantly changing sandbox world. The game will remember every choice and action that players make and will organically deliver increasing opportunities to do more of the things players like to do ... from crafting armor and exploring the wilderness to purging goblins from the forests.
 
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Laerazi_sl

shitlord
293
2
Imagine a Velious with a perpetual dragon/giant/coldain war that you can actively push in your factions direction
eek.png


Velious Ring War xAlways /dream
 
Lenas

Lenas

Trump's Staff
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2,361
Imagine a Velious where a failed ring war actually meant that the Coldain are now extinct.

/moist
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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Now imagine the forums if sacking a town disables the AH/bank/crafting there for a week, let alone forever. Time to drown in delicious tears.
 
Warmuth

Warmuth

Molten Core Raider
881
550
Man, if they have the balls, and I don't think they do, to let the various servers be truly different based on the choices of the player base then Ill be all over this. I'm skeptical that they'll let them vary in any significant way though. I can see maybe some Orc camps in different places and frog locks invading black burrow or something like that that's superficial at best.

If the servers are allowed to develop alternate realities from each other to the point that entire cities are founded/destroyed or not then they'll have solved a hell of a lot of player retention issues. I can see players on the hook for at least a year or two as they reroll onto entirely different servers to play through stuff they cant experience on their own server. But, I'm dreaming big, and I know it.
 
Quaid

Quaid

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I'm sure all the servers will complete all the planned Rallying Calls (which I assume are events planned by SOE), the only difference will be the timeline. I seriously doubt 'city building' will exist outside Rallying Calls/designated areas immune to NPC intrusion.

Prove me wrong, Mr. Georgeson. Please.
 
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Menion_sl

shitlord
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0
Warmuth_sl said:
Man, if they have the balls, and I don't think they do, to let the various servers be truly different based on the choices of the player base then Ill be all over this. I'm skeptical that they'll let them vary in any significant way though. I can see maybe some Orc camps in different places and frog locks invading black burrow or something like that that's superficial at best.

If the servers are allowed to develop alternate realities from each other to the point that entire cities are founded/destroyed or not then they'll have solved a hell of a lot of player retention issues. I can see players on the hook for at least a year or two as they reroll onto entirely different servers to play through stuff they cant experience on their own server. But, I'm dreaming big, and I know it.
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Darren McPherson mentioned in the Storybricks panel that if a server wanted to band together and revert Kithicor forrest that was a possibility in the game. They also clearly stated that different servers could have completely different outcomes based on the decisions that players made and which factions they chose to back or ignore. In part of the Storybricks presentation they said they weren't sure what was going to happen when the Elf/Shadow/Druid simulation was ran because it's different each time based on variables.

So, yes I think you are going to see very different servers based on players decisions and player faction populations. That is if everything works out the way they have it planned!
 
Dandai

Dandai

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Menion_sl said:
Darren McPherson mentioned in the Storybricks panel that if a server wanted to band together and revert Kithicor forrest that was a possibility in the game. They also clearly stated that different servers could have completely different outcomes based on the decisions that players made and which factions they chose to back or ignore. In part of the Storybricks presentation they said they weren't sure what was going to happen when the Elf/Shadow/Druid simulation was ran because it's different each time based on variables.

So, yes I think you are going to see very different servers based on players decisions and player faction populations. That is if everything works out the way they have it planned!
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I'm curious if the player base will segregate itself naturally (ie one server always siding with the good/light/dryads while another always siding with evil/dark/dark elves). As far as I know, almost all of WoW's PVP servers have super majorities of one faction (and they intentionally kept the majorities roughly the same when merging servers). If PVP is as optional as they're suggesting, I wonder how many care bears will be driven to pvp to ensure their goals are realized.
 
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Creslin

Trakanon Raider
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Wows majorities built up over years tho because of how shit the pvp systems were, that might happen in eqn but the initial balance should be more even.
 
Flipmode

Flipmode

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This all sounds good in theory but it's been my experience that players are what make MMOs suck more than anything. And if you give Timmy the chance to fuck up everyone else's game, yet alone the course of the world, he will. Just for the angry lulz. They're gonna have to be really careful to make sure that can't happen.
 
Dandai

Dandai

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Flipmode_sl said:
This all sounds good in theory but it's been my experience that players are what make MMOs suck more than anything. And if you give Timmy the chance to fuck up everyone else's game, yet alone the course of the world, he will. Just for the angry lulz. They're gonna have to be really careful to make sure that can't happen.
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There are definitely some design hurdles for distinguishing between trolling and "the will of the people." I hate to be yet another voice of cynicism in this thread, but I just don't see SOE, of all companies, as the one capable of solving this problem.
 
Lleauaric

Lleauaric

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Vitality, Im not sure you know how they plan on doing things.

There are no static spawns. If you kill start camping orcs in an area the orcs will either A. Leave the area. or B. Respond with increasing force. Not only that, there are no "quests" per se. You killing enough orcs in the Burned Woods may cause your Rohsong to send you to another area to speak with someone about killing tougher orcs in another place, as you have shown your prowess as an infamous orc killer.

And this wouldnt appear in a walkthrough, or be triggered. It would be reactive to your actions and a bit random.


So you can sit there and chase down random spawn points in the area. BTW.. the Map is fucking huge.. They already said the area the continent they showed was bigger than every single EQ1+EQ2 zone combined. The Serpents Spine/Kithcor area was divided into 30 different sections, alone. Someone did some quick calculations, and said the map is the approximate same square mileage as New Hampshire and Vermont combined. So if you had your character on auto walk, it would take 7 days to walk from one end of the map to the other. That area is just surface as well, it doesn't include the mile deep layer of earth.

rrr_img_74123.jpg
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a_skeleton_02

<Banned>
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Lleauaric_sl said:
BTW.. the Map is fucking huge.. They already said the area the continent they showed was bigger than every single EQ1+EQ2 zone combined. The Serpents Spine/Kithcor area was divided into 30 different sections, alone. Someone did some quick calculations, and said the map is the approximate same square mileage as New Hampshire and Vermont combined. So if you had your character on auto walk, it would take 7 days to walk from one end of the map to the other. That area is just surface as well, it doesn't include the mile deep layer of earth.
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I really truely hope that a game this size includes HUGE tracks of randomly generated forests,swamps,plains etc just like landmark that we can build our player housing on.

I don't know how that effects the travel aspect of the game but I would like a 2 hour long trip from Freeport to Rivervale
 
D

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
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Menion_sl said:
Darren McPherson mentioned in the Storybricks panel that if a server wanted to band together and revert Kithicor forrest that was a possibility in the game. They also clearly stated that different servers could have completely different outcomes based on the decisions that players made and which factions they chose to back or ignore. In part of the Storybricks presentation they said they weren't sure what was going to happen when the Elf/Shadow/Druid simulation was ran because it's different each time based on variables.

So, yes I think you are going to see very different servers based on players decisions and player faction populations. That is if everything works out the way they have it planned!
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If they can pull it off, it'll be the next step in evolution from Rift and GW2. Rift supposedly had tech to do this in some fashion (let rifts fight each other and take over towns and build stuff) but they scrapped it because they wanted a more static base and offer the same experience for everyone at every level. Yawn.

It's essentially the evolution of the public quest system. Hopefully they do something like that.
 
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Laerazi_sl

shitlord
293
2
EQNext not having such huge ranges of "levels" should hopefully free the Emergent AI system to do whatever it wants, without having to worry about whether players can outlevel the content or not. The system they are proposing doesn't seem like it would work in a mostly static world/content system like Rift or GW2.
 
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