EQ Never

Grim1_sl said:

I prefer that over over some idiot hoop jumping contest memorized by watching a youtube video.

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Why do people keep saying this? I'm sorry, but that is such a stupid argument. Running to youtube to watch videos on how to do encounters is a choice. If you, or anyone else wants to just go memorize content then that is your problem. It is not a design flaw that people choose to be lazy. You, and your guild can sit down in WoW, Rift, GW2 etc and figure out encounters, and design strategies for them all on your own.

This same "problem" would show up in any game. You couldn't design a game that couldn't be cheapened by youtube. A game designed around the "journey" can easily be spoiled with someone showing where all the hidden stuff is. Completely taking out the need to explore or do anything but memorize stuff off youtube.

Abefroman_sl said:

I have no problem with different types of gameplay. I wish there was more diversity. What I am trying to explain is that if you make a game like EQ now with the grinding, death penalty, no instancing, no LFD etc. It will fail. That is why nobody is willing to fund one.

The future as I see it is player created content sold in a steam like store. Gabe Newell and Jeremy Gaffney both talk about this. This eliminates your content problem, but your QOL features still need to be there to attract a larger playerbase.

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this is called conjecture

Lost Ranger_sl said:

Why do people keep saying this? I'm sorry, but that is such a stupid argument. Running to youtube to watch videos on how to do encounters is a choice. If you, or anyone else wants to just go memorize content then that is your problem. It is not a design flaw that people choose to be lazy. You, and your guild can sit down in WoW, Rift, GW2 etc and figure out encounters, and design strategies for them all on your own.

This same "problem" would show up in any game. You couldn't design a game that couldn't be cheapened by youtube. A game designed around the "journey" can easily be spoiled with someone showing where all the hidden stuff is. Completely taking out the need to explore or do anything but memorize stuff off youtube.

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And this, in large part, is the reason we will never recapture the feeling and experiences we had in EverQuest. Though I think the driver is less about being lazy and more about keeping up with the jones'

supertouch_sl said:

are you referring to vanguard or darkfall? vanguard flopped because it was buggy as shit and was released during wow's peak. darkfall was an amateur hackjob. neither was handled properly.

and the amount of scripting and choreography involved in a raid depends on the number of people, not on instancing.

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I'm talking about group or even solo content. For an example, play any Everquest expansion past PoP and note how much better the fights are.

And why does everyone think instances has to be some 15 minute 3 room affair like WoW? EQ has instanced versions of entire major zones. It would take hours to actually clear it all. Taking lower guk and instancing while leaving everything else intact would change.. what? You don't have to deal with some faggot pulling "your" mobs? Wow that sure ruins the experience.

Khane_sl said:

And this, in large part, is the reason we will never recapture the feeling and experiences we had in EverQuest. Though I think the driver is less about being lazy and more about keeping up with the jones'

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Whatever peoples reasons are in the end it all just comes down to self control. There is no reason people can't still go into new games, dungeons, raids, pvp, or whatever completely blind still. Anyone who complains about just memorizing stuff on youtube doesn't seem to get that the problem is them, and not the game. Using the internet to find all the resources you need does kill the magic. So don't do it heh.

Keeping up with the jones' shouldn't be a concern for anyone who claims the fun is the journey and not the destination.

Lost Ranger_sl said:

Whatever peoples reasons in the end it all just comes down to self control. There is no reason people can't still go into new games, dungeons, raids, pvp, or whatever completely blind still. Anyone who complains about just memorizing stuff on youtube doesn't seem to get that the problem is them, and not the game. Using the internet to find all the resources you need does kill the magic. So don't do it heh.

Keeping up with the jones' shouldn't be a concern for anyone who claims the fun is the journey and not the destination.

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Lol, right. 99.9999999999999 percent of the guilds just watch the video. And even if you do try to figure it out yourself, it's all just a matter of memorizing the script and kicking out the dorks without rythym. Boooooooring.

Boring encounter design isn't relegated to just instanced games but they take it's worst aspects to the n'th degree.

Raiding in general hasn't evolved much. Once you've jumped out of the fire once, it's all pretty much the same. The focus on highly scripted encounters is overdone.

I stated before in other posts I find most boss encounters boring, always have in every game. It's just really lame to fight the computer. I really enjoy the competition from other guilds (and the mutual griefing). That is so much more fun than the actual boss mob. Not everyone likes that kind of play though and it's hell on the GM's. But EvE and other games have shown that it does have marketplace appeal if done correctly.

Kreugen_sl said:

I'm talking about group or even solo content. For an example, play any Everquest expansion past PoP and note how much better the fights are.

And why does everyone think instances has to be some 15 minute 3 room affair like WoW? EQ has instanced versions of entire major zones. It would take hours to actually clear it all. Taking lower guk and instancing while leaving everything else intact would change.. what? You don't have to deal with some faggot pulling "your" mobs? Wow that sure ruins the experience.

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i'd like to see some combination of open zones and instances. i have no problem with the concept of instancing, especially for raid content. my problem with instances lies in their current use because they usually go hand and hand with an mmo's shitty story and i hate that the story has become the focus of modern mmos.

Steve aka Moorgard moved to announced project coughs, EQNext with Brad,Jeff and smokejumper.

http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/in...moorgard.1338/


RahtizDeveloper



Man, I must admit, I do enjoy the fact that everyone's talking about whether Moorgard's left or not because, to me, it means we must be doing decent enough things in-game.

But in all seriousness I will fill you guys in on a couple of things quickly that have been mentioned in several other threads.

Moorgard is in fact transitioning off of Vanguard and onto an unannounced project. He's still around and it has been a pleasure working with him. The last couple of weeks we have been discussing what should be accomplished within Vanguard and the direction that we are going for the future. Nothing regarding this will be changing.

From some of you, I expect to see the same negativity threads that have been going for the past several years but for the rest, I wanted to be open, as we have been since growing the team, and let you know what's going on. As other game teams start staffing up, it is necessary to pull talent from other projects. It is the nature of the beast.

Vanguard is still growing and we plan on continuing that growth as much as we can with your help.


See you guys in-game.


Devs confimed it then Moorgard after many posted about it.

Wow, Harvey referred to me as 'talent'. I think I might faint!

While it's been interesting to watch the speculation about whether I got canned, or ran off to Lothenland to fight an epic duel with Silius, or another scenario that's equally dramatic, the truth is much more mundane. I'm moving to [unannounced project] to do my best to help make an upcoming SOE game something awesome.

Though the future is exciting, this transition is definitely bittersweet for me because I've grown so fond of Vanguard over the past few months. Despite its flaws, unpredictability, and occasional craziness, Vanguard is a great game with one of the most compelling histories in the MMO business. The whole team has been awesome about welcoming me back to SOE, and I think we've done a lot of things to breathe new life into the game.

Most of all it's been my interaction with you, the players, that has been most rewarding. You all reminded me how exciting it is to be part of a live MMO service, of how regardless of what developers do, it's ultimately the fans who make the game what it is. And as I've said before, Vanguard's community is second to none. I truly mean that.

You're in excellent hands with Rahtiz and the rest of the crew. They're a talented, hard-working group and will continue doing great things for Vanguard. If they ever need me, I'll be just across the parking lot.

Though I'll be absent from official forums for a while, maybe I'll turn up at SOE Live this summer and get a chance to talk to some of you again. And hopefully I've done a good enough job that you'll be interested to check out what I work on next.

Thanks again for all you've done for me. Please keep the faith in Vanguard, and keep on making Telon an awesome place for new players and veterans alike.

Be seeing you.

They are deleting the threads someone started about Brad being moved monthes ago.

Convo_sl said:

Probably bc he's not on the project..unless he's lying about it.. Since he flat out told me he's not on it.

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I tried to tell you, Brad is great guy, but he cant say they moved him, cause alot peps are still slowly trying VG again, and excited Brad is back.
The sad shit is he was back and charged up, doing good job again, but they moved him to work with Jeff get the magic back.

Now today only cause the thread got so large they admited that steve D. Moorgard got moved to announced project which understand but we arent fucking retarded its eq3. Since Brad came back he and Steve are buddies and thick as thieves,with ideas.

Well... it IS Brad after all.

Convo_sl said:

So instead of ignoring my email he lied to me??

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Depends on how well you know him, he tried that nonsense with me.

They locked deleted 4 threads today on Brad ,soe is greedy bastards and its marketing tool that Brad is back now, which is he, but this time Brad has his heart passion back, he not just collecting money with some job title being told he dont have to come to work.

They are doing the same shit with steve he told me for few weeks he wasnt going to EqNext with him and the others, then today after week and some of him not posting due to metric size threads about him, they had to confirm he was being moved off VG.

Then senseing blood in the water, as the expression goes were their is smoke their is Fire everyone kept posting we know Brad got moved monthes ago, Mods came in chain deleted long threads about Brad.

1 Last thing, Im dieing for this game like the rest of you, but would rather it take 3 years more and not suck or be average with average shitty graphics, gameplay.

Here is my point SOE thru the years sucks at communcation, and lies like crazy, or appears to for spin whatever.
You have to understand Brad is under Major NDA even more then eq 1 which he did with Jeff,Smed,Rich, VG is his baby for better or worse he is kicking ass again now, but he does not have the Control aka power that he had back then, so he cant go post shit or talk about without breaking legal stuff, geting clearance from Marketing etc you see what im saying.

Before I post this all.

I wanna ask cause im not going to read every single page of this thread , that missed ok?

So want to know did you see Linda C, from SOE aka Brasse her post debunk Smeds comments on eq3 Next coming out in 2013?

I wanna know yes or NO before post it ok?

I dont want Nerd rage that it was posted 20 pages back etc.

Ugg. My fucking head hurts.

Grim1_sl said:

Lol, right. 99.9999999999999 percent of the guilds just watch the video. And even if you do try to figure it out yourself, it's all just a matter of memorizing the script and kicking out the dorks without rythym. Boooooooring.

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the fun has always been tryng to be amongst those to kill an encounter first before it got leaked to the general public at least for me... anyone who sits around waiting for a youtube video to come out before they try raid encounters shouldent be playing.

thats why i loved EQ and its era, everything was kept within if we managed to kill a boss before said rival guild, and we recorded it we sure didnt put it on Youtube the next morning for them to see and go down said night......and even early WoW had this.

I don't think classes need to go at all. I think classes give a game flavor. I'm sick of every character being able to do everything. That's what alts are for. If your world is big enough, you can see a ton of content you didn't see the first time.

TecKnoe_sl said:

the fun has always been tryng to be amongst those to kill an encounter first before it got leaked to the general public at least for me... anyone who sits around waiting for a youtube video to come out before they try raid encounters shouldent be playing.

thats why i loved EQ and its era, everything was kept within if we managed to kill a boss before said rival guild, and we recorded it we sure didnt put it on Youtube the next morning for them to see and go down said night......and even early WoW had this.

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I can agree with that. For a time, my guild had most of the server firsts in EQ and a couple of minor world firsts. We tried for more world firsts and were very close, and we worked it out on our own. That was fun. But that happened after we took over the server and left the other guilds behind.

Early on in the game (up to Velious) we were competing very closely with the other guilds and it was very rough and exciting. I just enjoyed that guild vs guild competition more.

But the days of EQ where knowledge of the encounters were held back for a time doesn't happen anymore. Social media is instant and youtube vids are up almost as soon as the expansion is released, before if players beta tested it. It's a different era.

I'm not against scripted content. It can be fun, I just prefer competing against other players more. It's less predictable and more exciting.

Kreugen_sl said:

No Lithose my post did not miss any point that you are making because your point has next to nothing to do what Grim1 has repeated in multiple posts or with what I am talking about.

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Yes, you did. Listen, I know your shtick is some drunk angry dwarf that comes in and tears up the nerds like Itzena on a rampage, rather than being a whimpering cunt, but you did miss the point. You came in like a blind driver pulling a retarded rickshaw, barreling into a thread that he has no fucking clue about what's going on.

Here, let me explain below. Take the rest of this shitpile post you made, like a senile old man asking why these young kids are dressed with their whipper snappers hanging out.

Kreugen_sl said:

Now, if what you mean is that ALL content is relevant ALL the time.. well, that just makes no fucking sense because this is a thread about Everquest 3 and notSome High Concept SandboxHyper Reality Simulator 3000. This shitpile of a thread should at least try to stick somewhat within the parameters that the name "Everquest" suggests to you.

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The reason why sandbox concepts are being discussed is because Smed said the old EQ formula was being abandoned in favor of a sandbox formula, with player created content--he gave the examples of EvE and Minecraft. Which, if you haven't figured it out yet, have elements of content having a broad range of uses to a wider variety of players--IE high end sandboxes. So maybe YOU should read the parameters of the thread and stick to it?

Kreugen_sl said:

I guess if you had no stats or skills or any RPG trappings of any kind you could have a game where Befallen and Veeshan's Peak are open for exploration the moment you log in to the game. But why would anyone go kill rats when they could be killing dragons? In fact, what the fuck is the POINT in such a game?

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Soft caps are HARD bro. You can have wide variety zones that are useful long into a game's life, and you can even give the players the power to transform those zones so they stay relevant with the population. (Towns ect). These systems have problems just like a linear leveling system does, but the difference is the wide ranging, soft cap style systems (Like what was being discussed) were never really developed, by any game.

It's not difficult to have a soft cap, near endless level or skills system that has plenty of RPG trappings. The original PnP RPG's, where ALL this bullshit spawned from, were pretty much "soft caps" beyond level 12--this was an element of leveling that most MMO creators abandoned in their models because without a human DM and an evolving, imaginative, world, it's difficult to translate. Butnotimpossible (At least for some aspects). The fact is, it hasn't even been tried--which is why a bunch of people were excited when Smed was talking sandbox, because these elements are often in Sandbox games.

But then you tumble in here like the Kool Aid man on crack and try to shit on people for being ON topic.

Kreugen_sl said:

Even if you make your MMO as flat, horizontal or however the fuck you want to define it, there's still a final boss. That being the last dude you haven't killed yet, in whatever random ass order you took in your meandering path through this no-level no-stats no-progression MMO.

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Yes, there is. And the concept of progression and even new content can be within a broader MMO. They don't just nullify each other. There are tons of small elements in current WoW which eliminate any "breadth" in the game play, that make it impossible to do anything but run the treadmill down the line the way it was set up. You can still have a goal, you can still have a progression, but STILL offer different paths to get there.

It's funny, in a later post you mention how everyone has tied instancing with the current Mcdonalds dungeons--and you speak about broad instancing of large dungeons (Like BRD, I suppose). But you're guilty of that in this thread. People talk about soft caps, and broad progression and you immediately nullify all RPG aspects...You can't see a middle ground, just like the anti-instanced ground can't see one in their own little example.