EQ Never

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Fight

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,645
5,565
Plane of Time pickup raids, in era circa Oct 2002 - Feb 2003? lol. Didn't happen. Anywhere. Unless you were in the top guild on the server, you probably weren't even going to see the Elemental planes. Rallos Zek would be on lockdown to deny any lesser guilds entry into the Elemental planes.

Frankly, the PoP progression was a convoluted mess. It would have helped if there was some sort of in-game interface or checklist, but you just had to go off of memory, on-line spoiler guides, and faith that your triggers were happening.
 

Louis

Trakanon Raider
2,836
1,105
See, I hear this a lot and its totally bunk. The POP flagging system was accessible toEVERYONE, but it wasn't handed over on a silver platter, yes,you did have to work for it. Effort was required. The game was what, four years old, and the majority of the player base was 65, so it only made sense to make an expansion that catered to the higher level players. The POJ trials were a frikkin breeze and actually required very little effort as they had groups running people through 12 hours a day. Not just guild groups, just whoever was there. I was in an upper tier guild but didn't even need to group with guild mates because another guild was just running anyone who showed up through a cue, so I put in my name and an hour later they jammed me in with a bunch of total strangers and we breezed through it. I actually got a few lower tier flags (Disease, Nightmare, Storms, Torment) just running through with pick up groups because I was working a lot of nights and missed a few guild raids.

My point is, if you tried, you could conceivably join pick up raids for all but Time, and later in the expansion, there were even pick up raids in Time. It was possible if you tried, and those who didn't and just complained, well honestly, the flagging system was great because it filtered out the crap, immature, annoying players, so if you zoned into say, POF, the only groups there were serious, dedicated players and the game became ten times more enjoyable as you didn't have to deal with garbage players, KS'ing, that idiot who will run in circles around the group jumping every 10 feet while waiting for pulls, arguing in OOC or SHOUT, none of the usual crap one has to put up with in the "open" zones.

Besides, the "casuals" were not even capable of grouping in the higher level Luclin zones, most casuals were still hanging in Chardok, KC, and Sebilis. They are called casuals for a reason.
None of this was true on 7th, albeit was a smaller pop server. As others said, things like this didn't help until much later after the release of the xpac.
 

Rangoth

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,771
1,883
Plane of Time pickup raids, in era circa Oct 2002 - Feb 2003? lol. Didn't happen. Anywhere. Unless you were in the top guild on the server, you probably weren't even going to see the Elemental planes. Rallos Zek would be on lockdown to deny any lesser guilds entry into the Elemental planes.

Frankly, the PoP progression was a convoluted mess. It would have helped if there was some sort of in-game interface or checklist, but you just had to go off of memory, on-line spoiler guides, and faith that your triggers were happening.
Ohh come on now! be fair! There was that guy in PoK you could talk to and get a novel of text which told you about your flags!(also wasn't in at release of PoP I don't think lol), gotta love the EQ solutions...

They did improve on this actually. Now you join tasks or whatever the fuck they are called. There is a nice(eq nice) UI and current status for various steps, etc. EQ(current day) isn't really all that bad. I'm not just saying nostalgia here, they did improve on many things as best one could in a system built on old and probably scrambled code.

A proper reboot with everything they've learned, combined with vanguard classes or classes like them, and the FF system of switching classes and jobs could be awesome. They just need to stop going so crazy with the graphics. Build the game in like minecraft mode first then get the artists in.
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Yea my memory may be off. I started drinking during raids with techno blasting in the background to get through the 10,481 backflagging raids so my memory isn't the greatest around that era.
 

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
<Silver Donator>
8,357
10,373
Same experience here. Although by PoP I was no longer on Tunare but playing on Ubisoft-run Sebilis, there wasn't any options to get group-level flags beyond the Valor flag in Justice. Everything else? Raid. Group shortcut opened later, but you still had to do the raids, because the elemental planes required not only a raid to flag, but you had to have the previous raid flags; group flags didn't count.

The raids themselves weren't that trivial, and certainly not pickup material until much later. So if you weren't in a regular raiding guild, you didn't go beyond Justice, Disease, Innovation, Nightmare, Valor, and Storm. Forget half of tier 2, all of tier 3, or elementals.

But, well, after 13 years, memories can get a little jumbled.
 

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
The only thing I can say is on Drinal we had "nightraid." Which was basically led by an alt of one of the top members of the #1 guild on the server (Cats in Hats). We were basically a pick-up technically as we all had different guilds, but it was the same roster of players night in and night out, essentially the #4 "guild" on the server at the time (or #3, I don't remember). I know eventually they went on to form their own guild once Defy got booted from Cats in Hats and he just boxed Crackel. We killed Quarm before GoD came out I believe, but again, I wouldn't call this a "pick-up" raid, we just weren't all in the same guild.

Pretty sure we zerged Rathe Council with like 120 people in the zone lmao.
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
I actually liked the PoP expansion. It was definitely a great expansion for trimming the fat. The shittier players were cut off from the better players for a good several months because of the flagging. Of course, I was in one of the higher end guilds. Not sure if my opinion would be the same if I were on the other side of the wall...
 

Creslin

Trakanon Raider
2,505
1,151
That's why I hated PoP, it totally changed the feel of the game. Before non-raiders were with raiders in alot of zones, you associated with everyone, as a raider you went into some of those old zones for gear in a few slots. And then PoP just totally changed all of that, and then after PoP it got worse where they started instancing every group zone almost and the game just totally lost its feel.

I just can't believe anyone here is for that design direction in games, it is the direction that leads directly to WoW. Totally killed off the great open world design that made EQ a great game and keeps people coming back for TLPs, and yet people talk about trimming the fat like its a good thing, it's not, it's what killed EQ.
 

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
Having instances =/= the open world no longer matters. I don't have time to spawn camp contested raid bosses. No one does anymore.
 

Djay

Trakanon Raider
2,324
364
That's why I hated PoP, it totally changed the feel of the game. Before non-raiders were with raiders in alot of zones, you associated with everyone, as a raider you went into some of those old zones for gear in a few slots. And then PoP just totally changed all of that, and then after PoP it got worse where they started instancing every group zone almost and the game just totally lost its feel.

I just can't believe anyone here is for that design direction in games, it is the direction that leads directly to WoW. Totally killed off the great open world design that made EQ a great game and keeps people coming back for TLPs, and yet people talk about trimming the fat like its a good thing, it's not, it's what killed EQ.
I thought PoP was great...maybe it was a stepping stone to the crap you mentioned, but in and of itself, I loved the design. I don't like all the instanced stuff either...I actually had fun in LDoN, but looking back that was where things really went in the wrong direction.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,771
628
Having instances =/= the open world no longer matters. I don't have time to spawn camp contested raid bosses. No one does anymore.
I will in 25 years when I retire! Either way, I'd play that game now. You always get it eventually
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
That's why I hated PoP, it totally changed the feel of the game. Before non-raiders were with raiders in alot of zones, you associated with everyone, as a raider you went into some of those old zones for gear in a few slots. And then PoP just totally changed all of that, and then after PoP it got worse where they started instancing every group zone almost and the game just totally lost its feel.

I just can't believe anyone here is for that design direction in games, it is the direction that leads directly to WoW. Totally killed off the great open world design that made EQ a great game and keeps people coming back for TLPs, and yet people talk about trimming the fat like its a good thing, it's not, it's what killed EQ.
Disagree. The lower tiers still had the non-raiders intermixed with the raiders. It was breaking into the higher tiers where people got separated, and made for a lot less competition for all of the gear/exp. The only thing I didn't like about PoP was that it totally made the original continents/areas of the game irrelevant. At least up until SoL, you still were at least part of the original world. When SoL came out, and then PoP, you never really had a reason to go back to any of the original continents.
 

Flobee

Vyemm Raider
2,682
3,084
Disagree. The lower tiers still had the non-raiders intermixed with the raiders. It was breaking into the higher tiers where people got separated, and made for a lot less competition for all of the gear/exp. The only thing I didn't like about PoP was that it totally made the original continents/areas of the game irrelevant. At least up until SoL, you still were at least part of the original world. When SoL came out, and then PoP,you never really had a reason to go back to any of the original continents.
I think this more hurt EQ more than just about anything else. Clever reuse of old content could have breathed life into the community.
 

Fight

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,645
5,565
Disagree. The lower tiers still had the non-raiders intermixed with the raiders. It was breaking into the higher tiers where people got separated, and made for a lot less competition for all of the gear/exp. The only thing I didn't like about PoP was that it totally made the original continents/areas of the game irrelevant. At least up until SoL, you still were at least part of the original world. When SoL came out, and then PoP, you never really had a reason to go back to any of the original continents.
Epic quests were a good draw to keep people coming back to older content, but places like Velious & Luclin were ghost towns except for people farming items for alt accounts. That is just the way MMO's are. I have yet to play one that people continue to use the old world when new expansions come out. There is no progression to be made there, so there is no point.

From a developer standpoint, Elidroth even said that they felt the need to create and open new worlds, otherwise people wouldn't buy their expansions. /shrug

I think PoP was one of the best expansions for a couple reasons. The convoluted Flagging system aside, PoP provided an amazing path of progression. The zone tiers, the armor quests, the spell parchments... they just nailed it. Next, it was a serious challenge. You had to have a large, max level guild, filled with a deep-roster of classes and talent. Finally and most importantly, the zones were an MMO masterpiece. The atmospheres were amazing, the music was a grand slam. You take gods that are known for one thing and you formulate a fully realized vision around it. It is simple and the pulled it off beautifully. The gods were truly legendary in EQ lore and they delivered on the epic, grand-scale everyone was hoping for.
 

Jysin

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,486
4,499
I'm still bitter about being cockblocked by SoE on Rathe Council for 3 months.

The "ship it and complete it / fix it later" mantra was well in effect.