bixxby
Molten Core Raider
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This. GW2 is what I think of when people suggest sideways leveling instead of actual leveling. It's not fun and kills the replay value of the game
EQ Never
- Thread starter Convo
- Start date
This is an EverQuest Game. In order to be successful in EQ, you had to farm keys, camp mobs, get flagged for zones... all while competing with others for the same objectives. It's still what made EQ unique among the 100s of MMOs that have flooded the market. For the guildies that I still maintain contact with to this day, these aspects of EQ were positive attributes. This is an EverQuest game. Why is it unreasonable to want some of the fundamental progression styles that made EQ the unique game it was. There are so many carebare games out there to cater to some of these posts I am reading. As many times when those who share my view on EQ have been told by you (you know you yall are): Go play those games. Please don't shit up the game that we obviously liked more than you did.
Edit for more: Flagging for higher zones/progression by completings raids or even farming keys is a strong way to keep older content fresh for newer players without crowding the upper end game. It will also keep those newer players playing for as long as the older players have been playing and has that content being used for something other than idiots farming it for achievements with a group of 1 that used to require 40 people.
Edit for more: Flagging for higher zones/progression by completings raids or even farming keys is a strong way to keep older content fresh for newer players without crowding the upper end game. It will also keep those newer players playing for as long as the older players have been playing and has that content being used for something other than idiots farming it for achievements with a group of 1 that used to require 40 people.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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Well this is EQ Next. EQ2 didn't contain most of what you stated and its an EQ game too. This isn't EQ. Take your own advice and go shit up that thread.
Edited to add: do we really need to list all the logistical nightmares back flagging and keying new members creates again for the 1000th time? That shit isn't fun. It's tedious.
ZyyzYzzy
RIP USA
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I still think keys/flagging if done like VP, VT, PoP, etc would do more harm then good. I feel like it has the exact opposite effect on old content that you stated, it just plane and simply keeps people from seeing certain zones and doing raids. Not only that, it greatly decreases the amount of people you interact with.
As an example, getting elemental flagged in PoP was great. However, it essentially made it so when I grouped it would be exclusively with guildies or the few other guilds later on who got flagged. It segregated the server even more. It wasnt worth the effort to group in PoV, tactics, BoT and other zones as the exp didn't really compare. The problem can even be applied further down to the other zones like BoT. Towards the end of the expansion, if someone was relatively new to the game it was difficult to get flagged for even those zones where a lot of the server was.
I think a recent alternative to a system like that would be flagging, but this wouldn't grant access (zones would be open) it would just give benefits that aren't required to those who have taken the time to do all the raids/ quests in progression up to that point.
As an example, getting elemental flagged in PoP was great. However, it essentially made it so when I grouped it would be exclusively with guildies or the few other guilds later on who got flagged. It segregated the server even more. It wasnt worth the effort to group in PoV, tactics, BoT and other zones as the exp didn't really compare. The problem can even be applied further down to the other zones like BoT. Towards the end of the expansion, if someone was relatively new to the game it was difficult to get flagged for even those zones where a lot of the server was.
I think a recent alternative to a system like that would be flagging, but this wouldn't grant access (zones would be open) it would just give benefits that aren't required to those who have taken the time to do all the raids/ quests in progression up to that point.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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A lot of people who liked EQ didn't like EQ2 and considered it to be a carebear group game. And many EQ2 players didn't care much for EQ and it's more hardcore style. EQ and EQ2 are very different games that attract different audiences. Which is a smart move by Sony in a business sense. Why cannibalize an existing successful game's playerbase?
Expect EQNext to be a different game altogether from EQ and EQ2. Which is cool, I like new things. Would still love to play a reskinned EQ classic, but if it ever is done I don't see it coming from SoE.
Fight
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,730
- 5,614
I really hope they get the classes right, as well as the leveling curve, in EQN.
There was nothing rewarding about leveling in GW2. You were doing the same things at level 50 that you were doing at level 10. You were using the exact same skills and abilities. Your gear was doled out to you in a predictable manner with ever so small +gooder upgrades, which where pretty much negated by an under the cover level-scaling-to-gear system anyways. All of the classes could play the exact same way (melee, ranged, support), if you simply changed your weapon out.
In reality, EQ was much more of a grind than GW2, but it didn't feel that way. EQ staggered it's class defining abilities across the entire level range, so that you were playing a much different character every 4 to 8 levels. For instance, the EQ1 Shaman... at level 10 you were a SoW bot. At level 29 you were a solo machine with Regeneration and Cannibalization. At level 44 you were given over powered Dots and were a DPS machine. At 50 you were at the height of your powers and completely balanced class that could do it all... solo, group, crowd control, buff boss, heal, and dps. Now that is a rewarding leveling curve.
Combine that with the fact that they allowed gear to drastically modify the balance of your character, and you always felt like you could "cheat the system" and get a leg up. If you were one of the lucky few to have a Rubicite Breastplate, it was going to drastically cut down on your downtime, which made you more efficient, and thus made you more powerful. But, for all of those things to fall into place, you had to have down-time to begin with.
EQ was great because it put all these really shitty challenges in front of you, and if you were resourceful enough, smart enough, and played enough, you could blow right past most of them. No game since has ever attempted to have the depth that EQ1 did. Every game these days removes complexity for the sake of balance, which has created a bland and unrewarding MMO experience.
There was nothing rewarding about leveling in GW2. You were doing the same things at level 50 that you were doing at level 10. You were using the exact same skills and abilities. Your gear was doled out to you in a predictable manner with ever so small +gooder upgrades, which where pretty much negated by an under the cover level-scaling-to-gear system anyways. All of the classes could play the exact same way (melee, ranged, support), if you simply changed your weapon out.
In reality, EQ was much more of a grind than GW2, but it didn't feel that way. EQ staggered it's class defining abilities across the entire level range, so that you were playing a much different character every 4 to 8 levels. For instance, the EQ1 Shaman... at level 10 you were a SoW bot. At level 29 you were a solo machine with Regeneration and Cannibalization. At level 44 you were given over powered Dots and were a DPS machine. At 50 you were at the height of your powers and completely balanced class that could do it all... solo, group, crowd control, buff boss, heal, and dps. Now that is a rewarding leveling curve.
Combine that with the fact that they allowed gear to drastically modify the balance of your character, and you always felt like you could "cheat the system" and get a leg up. If you were one of the lucky few to have a Rubicite Breastplate, it was going to drastically cut down on your downtime, which made you more efficient, and thus made you more powerful. But, for all of those things to fall into place, you had to have down-time to begin with.
EQ was great because it put all these really shitty challenges in front of you, and if you were resourceful enough, smart enough, and played enough, you could blow right past most of them. No game since has ever attempted to have the depth that EQ1 did. Every game these days removes complexity for the sake of balance, which has created a bland and unrewarding MMO experience.
Oddly enough, I dont think a re-skinned EQ classic would be greatly successful. It would definitely be profitable, but not industry-changingly successful. EQNwillchange the industry. August 2nd will be madness.
To flipchode: I would clarify some things about my post because superficially you are correct. However, I don't sense that you can look beyond the surface. If I am wrong, let me know, I have a passion for a great MMO to be release and I am accepting of all views.........................Fuckwad.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I don't think a reskinned EQ classic would be wildly successful either, not in the WoW sense anyways. It would be profitable if done correctly though. But most gaming studios are not interested in the risk of going down that path. Dark Souls has proven that there is a large audience out there for a more hard core style of gaming, but it will be a while before any gaming studio tranlates that into a mmo.
In the meantime, EQNext will be fun I'm sure. They are treading a new path and that is always exciting. I am so sick of the modern mmo WoW clone style.
ZyyzYzzy
RIP USA
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On spell effects, I want them done so I actually play with them on. I don't need my entire screen a ball of colors when I'm in a group and multiple people are casting.
It would also be nice if you had to pay attention to either spell effects on am player or monster to chain abilities or use one that is more effective at that instant. I do hate staring at buff/debuff windows.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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Really? Guess you haven't been reading my posts. Whatever you say chief lol.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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- 321
I think even vanilla wow was too fast. IMO, the hardcore people that play 12-18 hours a day should hit max in about 2-3months. The average joe 4-6 months. I'd like to have a lot of interesting content at all levels so ideally you don't get bored or you can see new areas on an alt.
ZyyzYzzy
RIP USA
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Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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If you wanna talk mechanics or have something of substance to say, then be my guest. If you just wanna wax about EQ nostalgia and how superior it is, we've been doing that for the entire thread and every other thread. Contrary to your labels, I am not asking for a WoW version of EQ. We have that now called EQ2. If you've read anything I've stated, and I have spelled it out in detail, you would realize you're the one who's wrong on what I want. But I digress...
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
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That category encompasses the people like me that can play long periods of time but not 12 hrs a day anymore as well as the folks who play even less. I only work 3 12s a week so I could put a good 4 days a week in. Won't be on the bleeding edge anymore but I don't expect the game to cater to my free time either.
Edited to add: we have enough games that cater to Sally soccer mom. It's time we had some that aren't ADHD instant gratification. At the same time, no one except a few on these boards enjoys tedium. There can be a balance contrary to some folks all or nothing views.
ZyyzYzzy
RIP USA
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I think that would be too steep of a leveling curve. You're saying essentially it should take 30days played to hit max level for a hardcore person (12hrs a day for 60days). Let's say causal Timmy plays 14 hours a week (2hrs a day), it'd take him a years time playing at that rate to hit max level.
Dude you truly have the a 3rd grade reading comprehension. Someone else said you wanted a wow version of EQ, but thanks for playing. I actually liked your previous post about how long it should take to hit max level. But how does one achieve that in a game? We know how EQ1 achieved it. But there are also so many other variables that made EQ what is was. It is the accumulation of all these variables that will truly make a great game. Sometimes the game has to be abusive, we should all know that people like to be punished for their mistakes, its the best way to learn. That aspect has been completely removed from the MMO genre. It needs to return.