EQ Never

Rezz · Dec 8, 2012

Situational gear should be almost as important as generic gear. Sidegrades included. But instead of requiring you to wear a hauberk of frost resist, incorporate a passive bonus to frost resist by killing the fuck out of some ice dragons or something. I -love- the idea of passive bonuses. It lets low level/not as skilled players kick it with the big dogs in the absence of levels, but still lets those with the playtime differentiate themselves. Frank the tank has killed every dragon on earth; his resists are fucking amazing by default. To contribute to a raid of Frank's calibur, Timmy needs to wear shitloads of encounter specific gear to offset the difference.

Make Frank the goal, not the baseline. Passives + situational gear to make fights easier. Do this.

edit - the two faction system that WoW used is fucking retarded and should never be replicated. Let people decide their faction, don't hardcode that shit. EQ1 had it right from the get go with the single faction + soft factions concept. Use that for every game henceforth and lots of hate will turn to interest.

Convo · Dec 8, 2012

Rezz_sl said:
Situational gear should be almost as important as generic gear. Sidegrades included. But instead of requiring you to wear a hauberk of frost resist, incorporate a passive bonus to frost resist by killing the fuck out of some ice dragons or something. I -love- the idea of passive bonuses. It lets low level/not as skilled players kick it with the big dogs in the absence of levels, but still lets those with the playtime differentiate themselves. Frank the tank has killed every dragon on earth; his resists are fucking amazing by default. To contribute to a raid of Frank's calibur, Timmy needs to wear shitloads of encounter specific gear to offset the difference.

Make Frank the goal, not the baseline. Passives + situational gear to make fights easier. Do this.

edit - the two faction system that WoW used is fucking retarded and should never be replicated. Let people decide their faction, don't hardcode that shit. EQ1 had it right from the get go with the single faction + soft factions concept. Use that for every game henceforth and lots of hate will turn to interest.

I think that's one way of keeping some old EQ concepts but building on them. That is the kind of subtle change I would like to see throughout EQ. Just adding one more alternative for the players to not make the game less harsh but take some of the silly grind away for players who earned their way. I think maybe we would be better served to break down everything but keep the original EQ in mind when offering alternatives. That's my wish for EQN. I still think they should mold the original world together and make it seamless though.. I'm probably just dense but can anyone explain to me why that would be a bad idea? I mean, can you guys imagine a modern day Kithicor forest? lol

Rezz · Dec 8, 2012

Convo is quickly becoming my favorite mmo forum poster.

Also I am drunk so posting in this forum is hilarious at best.

Tad/Super: Seriously guys, take off the shades and involve yourselves in the modern market. Shit is not the same as 1999.

Caeden · Dec 8, 2012

I think I fit squarely into the demo Rezz is talking about. Never touched EQ1 because I was in college/grad school in engineering and I didn't have time. Picked up WoW in TBC and have played most major releases since then. All my best mmo buddies played EQ1 and speak of it as reverentially as I do TBC. Its all about what you came in on. We had a saying in our guild made up of former EQ1 hardcores and new WoW mediumcores that "You always remember your first." They all pretty much accepted that I thought TBC WoW was IT. I think the vast majority of the current demographic in the market will be where I am.

Frankly, if you get EQ1 but shinier, I'm passing. It sounds like it was probably amazing and tons of fun, but I'm in my early 30s now like a whole bunch of that demo and just like my hardcore bud that played a cleric 16 hours a day in EQ1 then played every class in TBC to cap and raided 5 days a week at the start, I have a fuckton more responsibilities and really don't have the time. But that's fine. If they're happy with EVE pop or less and target that, could be a success for those folks that have the time.

I don't think WoW fans are the demo anyway. They're just that - WoW fans. Blizzard can shit anything new and they come running. They're almost a genre unto themselves at this point.

Rezz · Dec 8, 2012

Put dragons with weird resist patterns into the game. Hell, make that a staple of endgame raiding. Nothing uses disease till you end up with Zlexack 2x a raid. Mak ethat hard to overcome via gear but possible with passives. If you have killed Venril and you have owned Trak... poison should be zero issue. Poison being negged should have an effect on disease. People with a "I killed trak!" flag should have an easier time vs. those who just joined the raid.

Character flags vs. concept flags. I support the character angle.

supertouch_sl · Dec 8, 2012

Rezz_sl said:
Oh I'm not saying that it won't be popular with WoW players. My response was to tad's idea that a "lot" of people having played EQ means it is still relevant. Lots of people played Dragon Warrior/Quest 1 for the NES, but it doesn't make it remotely close to relevant in today's market. Honestly, unless SOE is strictly aiming for a very small niche of the market and the market share, they need to market this to people who weren't EQ1 players. Otherwise they'll get the same incredibly insular subscriber base that may stay subbed but will be minuscule compared to the market at large.

And super: You still don't know how to read, nor do you understand the word "context." Glad to see you got to the third line in the post before going full retard though! <3

i certainly know what "context" means. you continuously compare the populations of games that came out 5 years apart without understanding the factors that made wow's tremendous success possible. if it were released in 1999 with nothing more than a dozen u.s. servers, we probably wouldn't be talking about it.

nobody fucking likes these games that try to replicate the "wow model" and if that's your idea of today's market then the market has failed miserably. i'm confident the genre will come full circle and with the right marketing and infrastructure to support a worldwide playerbase (and assuming it's not some amateur hack job), a game like eq could be quite popular. just take a look at all the people who played dark souls.

Convo · Dec 8, 2012

Caeden_sl said:
I think I fit squarely into the demo Rezz is talking about. Never touched EQ1 because I was in college/grad school in engineering and I didn't have time. Picked up WoW in TBC and have played most major releases since then. All my best mmo buddies played EQ1 and speak of it as reverentially as I do TBC. Its all about what you came in on. We had a saying in our guild made up of former EQ1 hardcores and new WoW mediumcores that "You always remember your first." They all pretty much accepted that I thought TBC WoW was IT. I think the vast majority of the current demographic in the market will be where I am.

Frankly, if you get EQ1 but shinier, I'm passing. It sounds like it was probably amazing and tons of fun, but I'm in my early 30s now like a whole bunch of that demo and just like my hardcore bud that played a cleric 16 hours a day in EQ1 then played every class in TBC to cap and raided 5 days a week at the start, I have a fuckton more responsibilities and really don't have the time. But that's fine. If they're happy with EVE pop or less and target that, could be a success for those folks that have the time.

I don't think WoW fans are the demo anyway. They're just that - WoW fans. Blizzard can shit anything new and they come running. They're almost a genre unto themselves at this point.

Your post implies that because of time you don't think you could keep up with a game like EQ. I think your example was pretty extreme. As I played EQ for years and don't think I ever put in 16 hour sessions. I would ask you to think back to your peak WoW playing days. How many hours a day/week were you playing? Chances are you invested some serious time too. That's not really the point I want to make though. The game gives you what you put into it. I loved EQ but was never even close to being the top guild. We raided 3 days a week, sometimes less and were probably 2 expansions behind the Uber guilds. It really didn't matter to us. We had so much fun playing together at our own place. Don't believe that because of time you can't get an enjoyable, productive feeling from your play sessions. I think with smart implementation, building on old concepts you can. I don't think EQN will be as harsh as EQ1 in regards to CR's, keying, travel, etc.. I do think the Devs should start at them areas and say here's how it was...Let's do out best to keep them in the game and add some extra alternatives. Kind of like the stuff Rezz is putting down. We should all be expecting a deviation away from the current WoWish model as Smed as already alluded to it.

Ryanz · Dec 8, 2012

All I know is that if this game has any instancing, or two faction faggotry...it's an instant pass. Hope they don't fuck it up...but they will.

Convo · Dec 8, 2012

Ryanz_sl said:
All I know is that if this game has any instancing, or two faction faggotry...it's an instant pass. Hope they don't fuck it up...but they will.

Not to keep Bringing Rezz up(I know he loves it) but we were talking about Instances at FoH for trial type stuff for your actual class. Like in order to get your taunt ability you have to beat a scenario created by your class trainer. Depending on how well you did in the trial would determine the level of the taunt. The player who didn't do as well can still build up his taunt level and all just with more practice out in the world. That kind of stuff makes sense.. But other than that, yea I agree too. It's a sandbox!

Convo · Dec 8, 2012

supertouch_sl said:
i certainly know what "context" means. you continuously compare the populations of games that came out 5 years apart without understanding the factors that made wow's tremendous success possible. if it were released in 1999 with nothing more than a dozen u.s. servers, we probably wouldn't be talking about it.

nobody fucking likes these games that try to replicate the "wow model" and if that's your idea of today's market then the market has failed miserably. i'm confident the genre will come full circle and with the right marketing and infrastructure to support a worldwide playerbase (and assuming it's not some amateur hack job), a game like eq could be quite popular. just take a look at all the people who played dark souls.

I agree dude! I think a lot of new people just don't know or have never gotten a taste. That's up to SOE to pull off though..no easy thing. I want the attempt at it. I think hype now a days will get any company some good box sales. I don't even think it's risky as some people would lead you to believe.

ThunderCougarFalconBird_sl · Dec 8, 2012

I like the idea of passive resists- I really do. But since we know there is going to be confirmed endgame/raiding, the game will also have to deal with gear resets and bringing old/new players up to speed. In terms of resists, that means you will either have slam through outdated content to acquire them which is no fun, or there would be some other shortcut type method like purchasable scrolls. Both suck.

I suppose EQN could just get away from the level/gear treadmill altogether but that seems unlikely.

Tol_sl · Dec 8, 2012

I made this argument to someone the other day. I thought dark souls was an astounding game and I loved every second. I think that MMOs kind stopped innovating and are afraid to do anything but copy wow (right down to the very UI, so many games look like "wow in (insert environment)". I want to see innovation and experimentation in the genre. Theres a ton of potential, but it's been bottlenecked for a long time, I think.

Convo · Dec 8, 2012

ThunderCougarFalconBird_sl said:
I like the idea of passive resists- I really do. But since we know there is going to be confirmed endgame/raiding, the game will also have to deal with gear resets and bringing old/new players up to speed. In terms of resists, that means you will either have slam through outdated content to acquire them which is no fun, or there would be some other shortcut type method like purchasable scrolls. Both suck.

I suppose EQN could just get away from the level/gear treadmill altogether but that seems unlikely.

I think a way to get around it is if there were tiers of bosses and when that group of bosses were beat that actual guild gets the passive resist not the players unless they are in that guild. Again, I think there are a lot of things in EQ that could be made less "harsh" by just adding 1 additional alternative to the mix. Instead we pretty much had a lot of features torn down. :-(

Arkk · Dec 8, 2012

supertouch_sl said:
nobody fucking likes these games that try to replicate the "wow model" and if that's your idea of today's market then the market has failed miserably. i'm confident the genre will come full circle and with the right marketing and infrastructure to support a worldwide playerbase (and assuming it's not some amateur hack job), a game like eq could be quite popular. just take a look at all the people who played dark souls.

The sad truth is that peopledolike this shit. They gobble it up, sporting massive wood from the moment it's announced, call it the second coming, and then abandon it a month after release and go back to playing WoW. WoW has become the model for MMORPGs for one simple reason: it gave Blizzard a license to print money, and everyone else wants a piece of that pie.

I want nothing more than to see a new, intelligent, ball-busting MMO come out carrying the EQ name. I want the robust factions. I want the sprawling dungeons. I want other people trying to kill the same rare/timed pop I'm after and only one of us walking away without our dick in hand. I want the bag full of utility gear to kill X becausethat's what it takes. I want to die in some godforsaken corner of the world and legitimately worry about being able to get my shit back. But I don't think I'll get any of that. I think I'll get a game following the WoW model with a few EQ-inspired-but-ultimately-the-same mechanics and a Norrath coat of paint. And a little bit of me dies inside with that realization.

Many people that played EQ to a great extent have more pressing shit to worry about nowadays. And yes, a lot of those people (myself included), put just as much (or similar) time into WoWat one point. Hell, even if this dream game came out, I'd play the ever-loving shit out of it - but I wouldn't be able to put the same degree of time and effort into it that I once did. It's unfortunate, but there's a generation or two gap in the MMORPG market at large between then and now - and that's where development will go, because that's what's going to make them the most money.

I can't help but retch a little bit every time I pop into a WoW forum and see all the people crying because they wanteven moresomething for nothing, or because not every Tom, Dick, and Harry can kill X. People had a shit-fit when you had to actually discover the entrance to a dungeon before you could queue for your free, instant teleport to the action. The thought of having to actually progress through the tiers of the game instead of getting a pass to the latest and greatest?Clearly insane.

With any luck, I'm dead wrong, and this could be the game we've been waiting for - I really just don't see it happening. Yes, there'samarket for it, but we're notthemarket.

Convo · Dec 8, 2012

Arkk_sl said:
The sad truth is that peopledolike this shit. They gobble it up, sporting massive wood from the moment it's announced, call it the second coming, and then abandon it a month after release and go back to playing WoW. WoW has become the model for MMORPGs for one simple reason: it gave Blizzard a license to print money, and everyone else wants a piece of that pie.

I want nothing more than to see a new, intelligent, ball-busting MMO come out carrying the EQ name. I want the robust factions. I want the sprawling dungeons. I want other people trying to kill the same rare/timed pop I'm after and only one of us walking away without our dick in hand. I want the bag full of utility gear to kill X becausethat's what it takes. I want to die in some godforsaken corner of the world and legitimately worry about being able to get my shit back. But I don't think I'll get any of that. I think I'll get a game following the WoW model with a few EQ-inspired-but-ultimately-the-same mechanics and a Norrath coat of paint. And a little bit of me dies inside with that realization.

Many people that played EQ to a great extent have more pressing shit to worry about nowadays. And yes, a lot of those people (myself included), put just as much (or similar) time into WoWat one point. Hell, even if this dream game came out, I'd play the ever-loving shit out of it - but I wouldn't be able to put the same degree of time and effort into it that I once did. It's unfortunate, but there's a generation or two gap in the MMORPG market at large between then and now - and that's where development will go, because that's what's going to make them the most money.

I can't help but retch a little bit every time I pop into a WoW forum and see all the people crying because they wanteven moresomething for nothing, or because not every Tom, Dick, and Harry can kill X. People had a shit-fit when you had to actually discover the entrance to a dungeon before you could queue for your free, instant teleport to the action. The thought of having to actually progress through the tiers of the game instead of getting a pass to the latest and greatest?Clearly insane.

With any luck, I'm dead wrong, and this could be the game we've been waiting for - I really just don't see it happening. Yes, there'samarket for it, but we're notthemarket.

John Smedley: A year and a half ago, we made that decision. I didn't get to cover this in the keynote, so I should mention it here. The engine and underlying technology has not changed. A lot of the guts and infrastructure are staying the same. What we're really changing is what the game is all about, all the design elements. We made one fundamental shift to emergent gameplay.

Once we made that shift, everything else had to follow. And what we saw was RIFT. We saw the writing on the wall with SWTOR. We saw The Secret World. We saw all these games that we knew were in development and very high-quality, but we saw what was going to happen -- this big spike and then it goes down. That's the truth of what's been happening with MMOs. The fans need to realize that if you don't change the nature of what these games are, you're not going to change that core behavior. We want to make games that last more than 15 years. That's why we made the decision to change it.

You might be...

Jait · Dec 8, 2012

As much shit as I give Smed and Brad, they're smarter than we give them credit for. I'm very much in the "wait and see" catagory.

But to dipshits who think the EQ IP means nothing, why are you here posting? My Friends and Family guild, we had one person who played Everquest1. Me. Just about every other player in that guild though has heard my stories, read these boards or others and I have heard them in vent say..."Gee, I wish I could go back and play it." EQ Next will be huge. How huge will depend on how GOOD it is. But as an IP, I'd very impartially put EQ in the second tier all by itself. Just as WoW would be in the first tier, all by itself.

And that's why you are here posting too. You've heard about it, you've seen the glow we all have when we talk about the good ol' days. You want to be a part of that, so you'll hang around waiting to see.

Smed makes a really good point. Star Wars trumps EVERY FUCKING IP out there. And it sucked, it bombed. They're learning from these mistakes. They know EQN won't be successful if they follow the old models. Anyone who thinks it can be is just plain wrong. And the post above illustrates that perfectly. Again...lets wait and see.

Convo · Dec 8, 2012

Look at that.. part of EQN world already built=P

Faiona_sl · Dec 8, 2012

Looking at that map makes me nostalgic and wanting to play EQ again. But every time I go back and play on the p99 server, or their progressive servers that they release...usually I get bored within a month or less. Just have done it too many times to have that same 'magic' feeling that the game had from when you first played it. You already know all the areas and what drops what, the adventure feel to the game is gone. Hopefully though they don't make this game too shitty, and are able to keep it relevant enough for the old players but have enough new 'magic' that I'm enamored again with a game.

Convo · Dec 8, 2012

I think in regards to the world and that map.. EQN should be familiar but new.

Lemmiwinks_sl · Dec 8, 2012

Jait_sl said:
As much shit as I give Smed and Brad, they're smarter than we give them credit for. I'm very much in the "wait and see" catagory.

But to dipshits who think the EQ IP means nothing, why are you here posting? My Friends and Family guild, we had one person who played Everquest1. Me. Just about every other player in that guild though has heard my stories, read these boards or others and I have heard them in vent say..."Gee, I wish I could go back and play it." EQ Next will be huge. How huge will depend on how GOOD it is. But as an IP, I'd very impartially put EQ in the second tier all by itself. Just as WoW would be in the first tier, all by itself.

And that's why you are here posting too. You've heard about it, you've seen the glow we all have when we talk about the good ol' days. You want to be a part of that, so you'll hang around waiting to see.

Smed makes a really good point. Star Wars trumps EVERY FUCKING IP out there. And it sucked, it bombed. They're learning from these mistakes. They know EQN won't be successful if they follow the old models. Anyone who thinks it can be is just plain wrong. And the post above illustrates that perfectly. Again...lets wait and see.

This post is the truth. The IP really means fucking nothing. Nothing. Sure, if its Star Wars or Warhammer it will have an initial surge of people logging in but thats meaningless after a couple of months. Why? Because if it sucks, people wont play it.

It doesnt matter if the IP is EQ, the Patriots, or tits. If its good, fun to play, and smooth, people will come, and stay, and pay. If its awesome the word will spread and it will be played. End of story.

EQ Never

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