Until SOE decides to give us their definition of "sandbox" it could be anything. All assuming will do is 9 times out of 10 piss you off but hey what else is there to do since we have no info so speculate away
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Grim1
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Like I said, a little imagination would solve all of your problems. A mega server isn't instancing in the standard sense, it's shards that you can travel between. If EvE used it they could then have 30,000 players (or more) fighting inside the same system.
One way integrate that into EvE is by giving every ship a "phase shifting" engine or some such. This engine would change your phase in relation to the universe, so that you would only see ships in the same phase and would be able to avoid other ships out of phase. The phase shift is just another name for a shard but you call it that to integrate it into the lore. Presto, you have the ability to have 30,000 players battleing in the same system.
And for a game like EvE you would only create separate shards when player load demands it. In EvE that is somewhere north of 3000 players atm. So it would only be used during the most intense battles. Restrictions to phase shifting (changing shards) would obviously have to be implemented into the lore, something like "the mass energy of 3000 plus corbomite engines has weakened the bonds of the local phase substructure, phase engine capabilities now online.. etc, etc".
As for resources etc. I covered that in a different post. Resource nodes would tied to each other so the copies can't be exploited. And again, for EvE separate shards would only happen during the most intense battles where there are too many ships in one system for even their servers to handle. But phase shifting could also add a new tactical element to the gameplay, much like a cloaking device.
This is just one scenario a mega-server could be used in a game like EvE. There are any number of ways to integrate it into sandbox games, you just have to be creative. Try it and leave your old crusty notions of what is "impossible" behind.
I never did play SWG, but I have heard / read that SWG before Sony changed it was a sandbox style game. Could Smed / SOE actually be considering this as a starting point with destructive elements added into the world for their game rather coming from a Minecraft point of view? Curious what others think.
Minecraft is a simple game though. You take blocks and you build shit with them. There is meta shit on how to get certain blocks etc, but it's essentially virtual legos. So when you say EQ-minecraft-EVE hybrid, to me that sounds like some in a car forum saying it's a Mustang-Ford150-HondoMotorcycle hybrid.
It just sounds silly to me.
Grim1
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No, it's not. Star Citizen is more like GW1 where instancing is a way of life. What I described is a way to implement a mega-server into EvE without changing the basic gameplay. Apples and oranges.
Convo
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That's because you still think the world will be like minecraft. I'm not saying that. I think minecraft has inspired part of the design in someway and I expect to see it in some form.
Daidraco
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Whoa.. calm down Mr. Armchair. No one knows enough information on Star Citizen to tell anyone theyre wrong at this point. <insert jimmies rustled>
Muligan
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The same guy that made this made a North Freeport as well (I think...) It is actually really cool.
In regards to Sandbox... I agree, I want to know what Smed feels is a true sandbox because I think it has to be in context. Minecraft is a sandbox but it has different limitations because it is what it is... It's like comparing Lego's to Monopoly. For EQ to be a "Sandbox" what freedoms and player-to-environment- impact are we talking about?
Grim1
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Don't care what the details are about in Star Citizen. And if nobody knows, then Draegan shouldn't have made his statement either. But my general contention is correct, Draegan was wrong. Based on what little has been said by the Star Citizen devs, their game will be nothing like EvE.
Ukerric
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And this single phrase tells you exactly why it is a very bad idea, in the context of EVE's core motivations and gameplay, to implement exactly that.
Good. So what does that mean? That I can attempt to force a shift, and go harvest stuff while the legitimate owners can't figure out how to get around the phase system so they can flush their thief? Or that I can force a shift, and get to pluck the belt of resources, while the legitimate owners don't even know I'm there? Or that my fleet can attack their towers unseen? Or what?
My problem is that I work in computer security. Us security types have one problem: put a design in front of us, and we're going to immediately zoom in on its flaws, problems, and the ways one can exploit it in an unintended manner.
(and we laugh hysterically when the devs start by saying "but no one will ever do THAT!")
Once again, I'm not saying that the idea of a single server with on-demand instancing of zones doesn't work in a MMO. I'm saying that there are MMO types in which it is going along with the gameplay, and there are MMO types in which this is going to go AGAINST the gameplay. EVE is one of those. And yes, when subscriber pressure becomes a bit worrying in the single galaxy, they don't instance zones. They create additional, non-instanced content (new constellations! Wormholes!). Which works a lot better in EVE's context than trying to have phased-shift systems.
Grim1
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And you completely missed the part where I said that for EvE it would only be used on a as need basis during the most intense battles. It could also add to EvE's intense battles by allowing more people to participate in a single system battle.
A mega-server isn't a one size fits all solution. How it is used is up the the devs. It can be fit into any mmo of any type. The devs decide the restrictions. You said it was impossible to be used in a game like EvE, and is only good for theme parks. My post was just one way that showed how it could be done and that your contention is wrong. There are any number of ways to use a mega server in EvE (or any sandbox game) and still keep the gameplay.
A mega-server isn't a one size fits all solution. How it is used is up the the devs. It can be fit into any mmo of any type. The devs decide the restrictions. You said it was impossible to be used in a game like EvE, and is only good for theme parks. My post was just one way that showed how it could be done and that your contention is wrong. There are any number of ways to use a mega server in EvE (or any sandbox game) and still keep the gameplay.
Daidraco
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Grim1
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Well when you sayd EQN = Minecraft + Eve that tells me you think it's a large portion of the design. What do you think minecraft inspired in EQN other than Smed going, "Shit this game is popular, players like freedom, lets give EQN 3rd redesign more freedom!"
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.c...nd-instancing/
One thing I don't like about most MMO structures is the fragmentation of the player base between these "shards". If you had joined much later than a friend of yours, there may not be room on his world instance anymore and you have to join another parallel one and so cannot play together. This is one of the nice things about the Eve Online design - everyone plays in the same universe.
In Star Citizen there is going to be one persistent universe server that everyone exists on. So you will never be separated from your friends, and if you want you'll be able to join up and adventure together, you can. Due to the fidelity of the dogfighting and physics simulation we can't however handle thousands of players in the same area of space. Even if you had enough internet bandwidth to handle the data going back and forth and a super computer for the server there's no PC, even with quad SLI that could render that many spaceships with Star Citizen's fidelity.
So the "magic" of Star Citizen's multiplayer design is how we combine a persistent universe with a more traditional (and easier to implement) temporary multiplayer "battle" instance.
The way it works is that the persistent universe server, which we're calling the Galaxy Server, keeps track of all players' assets, group relationships and locations inside the Star Citizen universe. As the Galaxy server isn't handling any realtime action it can handle our complete player base, which right now would be about 45,000 players, but is designed to be able to scale to millions if need be. The other key thing the Galaxy Server does is dynamically place players based on their location, skill level, alignment and player versus player (PvP) preference into battle instances. Think of a "battle" instance like a Battlefield 3 multiplayer session or a World of Tanks Battle with the key difference that the selection of players is done transparently and is "in fiction".
An illustration of how this would work is like this -
I start out planet side on New Pittsburg. I decide to buy a few tonnes of steel to fly to the shipyards of Terra. I'm currently in the hands of the galaxy server that communicates with my client and handles my purchases and interactions on the planet as these are not real time in the manner that the space action is. We render these in the manner of Freelancer, as detailed 3D environments where we see a third person view of our character in a location and we can click on Non Player Characters (NPCs) or terminals to buy / sell, upgrade your ship, get gossip, hear about a mission and so on. You'll also be able to interact with other players via a chat interface. We haven't fully worked out the player avatar handling planet side but the bar or private clubs will be where you can meet / chat to other players. Besides populating the bar with NPCs, the game will also populate the bar with other players. If there are more players planet side than there are slots of avatars in the bar the ones visible to you will be based off your friends list and then it will be based on relevance to you - a player looking for a wingman, one from a similar group, or maybe someone that you've been given a mission to find or hunt down. You will also be able to see the full list of players in the room if there are more players than there are slots. Default would be a drop down list for this, but as I hate anything that breaks the immersion, we'll probably come up with a better in fiction way of seeing the list of players - maybe you tell the bartender who you're looking for, maybe you can look at the door list for the bar.
In Star Citizen there is going to be one persistent universe server that everyone exists on. So you will never be separated from your friends, and if you want you'll be able to join up and adventure together, you can. Due to the fidelity of the dogfighting and physics simulation we can't however handle thousands of players in the same area of space. Even if you had enough internet bandwidth to handle the data going back and forth and a super computer for the server there's no PC, even with quad SLI that could render that many spaceships with Star Citizen's fidelity.
So the "magic" of Star Citizen's multiplayer design is how we combine a persistent universe with a more traditional (and easier to implement) temporary multiplayer "battle" instance.
The way it works is that the persistent universe server, which we're calling the Galaxy Server, keeps track of all players' assets, group relationships and locations inside the Star Citizen universe. As the Galaxy server isn't handling any realtime action it can handle our complete player base, which right now would be about 45,000 players, but is designed to be able to scale to millions if need be. The other key thing the Galaxy Server does is dynamically place players based on their location, skill level, alignment and player versus player (PvP) preference into battle instances. Think of a "battle" instance like a Battlefield 3 multiplayer session or a World of Tanks Battle with the key difference that the selection of players is done transparently and is "in fiction".
An illustration of how this would work is like this -
I start out planet side on New Pittsburg. I decide to buy a few tonnes of steel to fly to the shipyards of Terra. I'm currently in the hands of the galaxy server that communicates with my client and handles my purchases and interactions on the planet as these are not real time in the manner that the space action is. We render these in the manner of Freelancer, as detailed 3D environments where we see a third person view of our character in a location and we can click on Non Player Characters (NPCs) or terminals to buy / sell, upgrade your ship, get gossip, hear about a mission and so on. You'll also be able to interact with other players via a chat interface. We haven't fully worked out the player avatar handling planet side but the bar or private clubs will be where you can meet / chat to other players. Besides populating the bar with NPCs, the game will also populate the bar with other players. If there are more players planet side than there are slots of avatars in the bar the ones visible to you will be based off your friends list and then it will be based on relevance to you - a player looking for a wingman, one from a similar group, or maybe someone that you've been given a mission to find or hunt down. You will also be able to see the full list of players in the room if there are more players than there are slots. Default would be a drop down list for this, but as I hate anything that breaks the immersion, we'll probably come up with a better in fiction way of seeing the list of players - maybe you tell the bartender who you're looking for, maybe you can look at the door list for the bar.
It's very similar.
Convo
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If I had to guess.. player made housing/cities/landmarks. Using a style similar to minecraft. So when it comes to construction/trade skills/resource harvesting I imagine it will be more in tune with minecraft also. At least the inspiration would probably come from that game. I guess we will find out..
Smed also said destructible environment which could point at a game like minecraft.. You lack imagination at times dude.. I'm not sitting here and saying EQN will be minecraft.. I'm saying they looked at that game and said how can we take parts of it and make it a part of EQN..
Grim1
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