EQ Never
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Tolan
Member of the Year 2016
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I think he made several exemplified good points, with which I happen to agree.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Nope! It's pretty factual unless you're aware of a true EQ 1 sequel that has recently released?
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Give me a game that has released in the last 5 years that is even close to being considered it?
More questions from a question. Anyway, it's been discussed at length on here.
That'd be WOW.
EQ was revolutionary due to what it offered at the time. Given the nature of the gaming universe right now, we've evolved. I think people really do not know what they want, but it involves a paradigm shift.
I played EQ from day 1, and while there was a lot of fun, some here seem to have rose colored glasses on about some of the headaches. Exploring was amusing, but getting lost at times was a huge pain in the ass. I rank that up there with 'camps', something necessary and, yes, social, but by no means a good gaming design and definitely something I'm happy not to do again.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Disagree.. It's now wow. WoW would be the EQLite version. Not a true EQ sequel. Design/vision wise VG would be more of a EQ sequel. I just didn't want to go in this huge circle again as we have all heard this conversation a million times.
Btw we should have mini maps and minimal exploring because getting lost was a pain?! Wtf is that dude.. It's not suppose to be easy all the time.. what camps are you referring? The majority were optional and we talked about the keying which wow did too..
Minimaps and exploring are segregate things. For a great example, I'd refer to Guild Wars 2. A minimap is not changing encounters, revealing traps, or changing underlying things. I like the convenience of it, and it makes the game better for me. Exploring in EQ was for the sights, but after two expansions became somewhat meaningless.
As far as camps, I don't just mean for items, but early EQ was all about them for exp, too either in Sol B, Lower Guk, or waiting for many, many hours for rare respawns.
The most fun and challenging parts of EQ were due to oversights or poor design, i.e. kiting, FD pulling, Enchanter early CC stuff, etc. Running in circles looking for a spawn on the ground to me was just really crappy design. I guess some miss that and want it again, but I personally do not.
Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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Camping in EQ wasn't an intentional design in and of itself, they even tried to hard code against it in beta (anti-camp code anyone?). Camping was the player response to the other design decisions that were made with regard to itemization and the slow nature of HP and mana recovery. WoW style dungeon crawling was unfeasible in early EQ for practically everyone. Casters needed to be stationary to make mana recovery efficient. Any modern MMO that tries to embrace that same camp centric style of game play is going to have to have similar limitations to force players into that type of behavior, because when given a choice between that and something else, they usually elect the later.
Grim1
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Hyperbole much? Most people have fond memories of EQ and miss many of the things you talk about. I really miss old school pulling, open world dungeon crawls, old school enchanters, etc. As do most of us.
I think most of us also agree that some of EQ's harsh systems could be successful in a modern mmo, if the devs had the balls, intelligence and creativity to implement them. But we also recognise that the mmo landscape has evolved, not always for the best but change is inevitable. Old school EQ is gone forever, we may get some of it back but the complete and original EQ experience can not be relived... ever... (even SoE doesn't have the old code).
Mmo's change, Life changes, the world changes... but apparently some old EQ basement dwellers do not.
a fantasy world doesn't have a gps system? how inconvenient! do you like your movies full of exposition?
dude, i think we're all aware of the headaches involved in everquest but some people are able to appreciate them. games without frustrations are rarely worth playing. as a kid, i would get pissed off when i would die at the end of a level and have to start over. it made overcoming obstacles more satisfying. that's a normal response.
oh, and you know what else is "bad design"? being forced to run the same instance repeatedly.
dude, i think we're all aware of the headaches involved in everquest but some people are able to appreciate them. games without frustrations are rarely worth playing. as a kid, i would get pissed off when i would die at the end of a level and have to start over. it made overcoming obstacles more satisfying. that's a normal response.
oh, and you know what else is "bad design"? being forced to run the same instance repeatedly.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Grim1
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True, but EQ evolved along with the industry. The modern version of EQ is nothing like the original, and hasn't been for a very long time.
EQ up to and including Velious seems to be the consensus version that most have enshrined in rose colored memory. I personally liked some of the things in LDON too, but many old school players don't. After LDON EQ was a different game.
EQ up to and including Velious seems to be the consensus version that most have enshrined in rose colored memory. I personally liked some of the things in LDON too, but many old school players don't. After LDON EQ was a different game.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I enjoyed LDON but we would zone in, check tracking for named and decide from there..again, future games took stuff like LDON too far.
I respect everyone's opinions in this thread but not having a game a lot of you guys consider too niche to make money is not helping develop better games in the future. I think when features are developed now they are based around causal players and there are a lot of things from EQ that didn't evolve properly because of that. The industry needs both and I can't undersand why so many people are against it.
I respect everyone's opinions in this thread but not having a game a lot of you guys consider too niche to make money is not helping develop better games in the future. I think when features are developed now they are based around causal players and there are a lot of things from EQ that didn't evolve properly because of that. The industry needs both and I can't undersand why so many people are against it.
Greyform
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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You know one of the things that really pisses me off with this line of thought is you can turn the damn map or half the things "you people" claim make the game too easy.
But you chose not to, instead it is only good if conveniences are off for everyone because dictating how I play the damn game is far more important to you than how you play the game. Why is that?
PS EQ is dead, no one will recreate it. You can call it EQ next, EQ all over again, or EQ Here's the Same Game With a New Skin. and it will still not be EQ, or innovative, or anything you hope it to be because who ever makes it will want to sale the game to more than the handful of people that would play it.
Some day, when the cost to make a niche video game is not cost prohibited you may get the game you're looking for. Today is not that day.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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That's exactly the correct definition of casual. Casual gamers are gamers for which the game comes second where their time is concerned.
(be it because they're going to play only when the kids are asleep and the wife is busy watching American Horror, or they're going to tell "sorry, can't raid Thursday, I got a few colleagues who are going to the pub")