EQ Never

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You know this is true. I did as soon as he started hating on parsers, obviously had a bad experience lol. I'd give u a fucking internet, but you assumed he got into heroics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfHBPusZg6E

Ah so GW2 events then! I know that's not what you meant, but that will be the 10's version of that...is that what we call this decade?
I like a lot of what GW2 did. But I liked it a lot more in the early stages of Beta when it was hard as hell. I LOVE when random mobs pwn people because it makes the whole thing in to a game of survival, kind of. It's less about rushing around completing quests as fast as you can possibly run, and more about learning how to live in the world. But that all changed.

But the technology is pretty great in these new games. They just need to stop catering to morons all the time.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
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Yes, in a lot of ways I would like that...if the content is compelling. Camping in a spot and pulling mob after mob after mob is not. I actually would like something like GW2's event system mixed with some of the cinematic Blizz quests and a slower pace. Fewer, more important quests. I'd probably prefer to see raiding being 10 man only too.

I would have quit EQ now honestly though. Same as I did soon as grad school hit.
I hated the events of Rift, didn't bother with GW2 so won't comment and hate cinematics in all MMOs. It sounds like you want a slow themepark, you should check out the FFXIV thread.

I like camping if you're not pulling in group there's a lot of downtime to chat so you can just enjoy your time in the game with your fellow gamers, talk about politics, sports, games and of course girls and alcohol - you know the shit we talked about on fohguild.org or here. No fucking around with backflagging people for a multi-quest chain or killing exactly 10 bears then running back to a quest hub to get the next quest to take a letter to some asshat in another town.

Solo camping is great too, you can park in a spot, go anonymous, turn on the TV and just pull and kill your mob/placeholders when it/they spawned. I don't have to read any fucking quest text, I don't have to run around, I'm gaining XP and if it's a named mob the possibility of some nice loot. I think I watched 5 seasons of South Park while camping some mob or other in EQMac a few years back - never showed up, but I enjoyed my time.

Anyway, I never got the camping hate.
 
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Same here. I thought I was the only one. I loved it because it was chilled and a lot less manic than this constant running from 10 bat quest to 10 rabbit quest to 10 wasp wing quest etc. And yet it wasn't completely without excitement too, because there were sporadic moments of great intensity. Tank would go to pull a mob and accidentally get jumped by 5 and rush back to the group and we had to deal with it by hook or by crook.

And there was also the splitting of rooms which was a big deal, and you had to hold that room. And there might be 30 minutes of pulling random trash for xp, but every 30 minutes the big guy would spawn and you'd have to fight that. And when you think about it, the good dungeons had a dozen or so locations like this to camp at, and there were countless dungeons, so there was a LOT of variety to these locations and mobs.

I wish that would at least be a viable way for the future. My suggestions for EQ2 back in 2001 or whatever, was that this should be in future games, but also soloable instances, group instances, and stuff like that. Basically, what became known as dungeons in WoW, TSW, and all other modern games, I wanted us to be able to do them OCCASIONALLY as a bit of a change of pace, both solo and in groups, perhaps for specific items like enchantments or spells or something. But everything else you still got from camping mobs like EQ. I like variety.
 

gogojira_sl

shitlord
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It's nice to see EQ Next get a nod and apparently SOE showed it off to a very, very slim few people. I don't have much faith in MMORPG.com though. Come to think of it, I don't know what "good" MMO site is out there. I actually don't mind the whole Junkies network here but each portion serves a different purpose related directly toward a specific game. Standard gaming media isn't a good alternative either, though. Instinct and Rerolled, I guess.
 

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
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611
In my guild, we were parsing damage from the early days. Not much in classic, but in Kunark we parsed enough to know that discing melee were outdamaging wizards even on 32k hp dragons. Of course in Velious using the bane spells, it was easy enough to count the number of spells that landed and multiply it by 2,000. Often melee still outdamaged the wizards even with the bane spells, and crushed lure using wizards. Casters got a significant boost in Luclin, but even in PoP a well geared rogue would beat a wizard on low ac gods. This stuff influenced our recruiting decisions.

I still have some of my old logs, including my Velious era mist panther logs. I recall Kruegen parsing on that mob and getting different results than mine which I attributed to the samples being too short. Stats in EQ were so subtle that you needed a lot of data to determine anything with a degree of certainty. I recall a mob in Shadowhaven that couldn't be killed or attack back that we used to parse on. Also the underwater frog in Lake Rathe that was added in Ykesha I believe. I would autoattack overnight on those; 8+ hour logs. I could tell you my exact procs per minute. People used to give me their login info so I could log and parse for them.

I have something of a dichotomy on this issue in that, if I were to make a game, I would hide as much of the math as possible-- including damage numbers of all spells and melee hits, stat points, even hit points. I would definitely want my game to feel like a world to immerse yourself in rather than plugging stats into spreadsheets to figure out the best min/max gear; if for no other reason than to be different from every other game out there. This also allows for some new gameplay. Take healing for example; if you make figuring out who needs to be healed and for how much part of the challenge of the game, it lets you make combat slower (as opposed to the current trend of tanks dying in 3 seconds) without trivializing it. It would also make healing more entertaining as you would be looking at the battle instead of hit point meters.

However parsing the numbers is how you discover balance issues in games. For years in EQ, I would get shit from a lot of people who refused to believe me when I said that warriors were outdamaging wizards. Even up to PoP, I would 2 box both classes in an exp group scenario, post the data, and some idiot FoH wizard would ridicule me and post his own log with his melee spending more time with autoattack off than on, and most of the delusional wizards on Graffe would take his side because he had the FoH tag and they didn't want to believe their 5 year old characters still sucked dick in single target killing exp grinds. You can't trust the #1 uber guild, and you certainly can't trust the developers. Hard objective data is necessary.

Btw, they added spell damage to third party logs sometime in PoP I believe. I still have many logs from that era with spell damage in them.

Also, regarding third person cameras, I used third person cameras a lot in EQ simply because of the advantages they gave. I would meditate in the middle of roaming mobs and move away from mobs coming at me from behind as I could see in all directions in some camera views; I bet it looked like showeqing to people who saw me doing that. I would also agree that forcing the game in first person adds to the immersion and challenge. Shame no devs have the balls nowadays to do something like that.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,597
11,941
It's nice to see EQ Next get a nod and apparently SOE showed it off to a very, very slim few people. I don't have much faith in MMORPG.com though. Come to think of it, I don't know what "good" MMO site is out there. I actually don't mind the whole Junkies network here but each portion serves a different purpose related directly toward a specific game. Standard gaming media isn't a good alternative either, though. Instinct and Rerolled, I guess.
The junkies network is good because it's basically an information site. As far as review sites? They all fucking suck.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
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601
Basically, I wish I could get you tube reactions of people as I watch their inner child get raped.
I'll take some crowd shots at the reveal, will that work for you?

I typically don't put sites out until the games are announced.
It's announced, just not revealed. Get to work, don't you want your leet fansite early-beta entry? And OMG for anyone thinking this is out soon - you are so wrong. If this releases before Q4 2014 I'll drink a whole bottle of Magnesium Citrate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_citrate
 

gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
Holiday 2014 at best. Some people are talking crazy and think it's going to hit this year because of some vague reference Smedley said that could have meant anything.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
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Holiday 2014 at best. Some people are talking crazy and think it's going to hit this year because of some vague reference Smedley said that could have meant anything.
My take on the Smedley quote is that there are player creation tools that will be available perhaps as early as end of this year, so players can create additional content for EQN "soon" but the game as a whole won't be feature complete and major bug complete until Q4. Maybe a week or two before Thanksgiving (like WoW - IIRC released around Thanksgiving 2004). As you say, Holiday 2014.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,597
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My take on the Smedley quote is that there are player creation tools that will be available perhaps as early as end of this year, so players can create additional content for EQN "soon" but the game as a whole won't be feature complete and major bug complete until Q4. Maybe a week or two before Thanksgiving (like WoW - IIRC released around Thanksgiving 2004). As you say, Holiday 2014.
That sounds like a really good guess. It would be smart too. Nothing like an army of free labor. Would also finally give Blizzard something to copy for titan.
 

gogojira_sl

shitlord
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Avatar bet?
I don't even have an avatar right now, lol. It's not coming out this year, it'll be late next year. Are you betting that it will be out this year? There's no way that's happening.

Edit: tad10 probably hit the nail on the head. It is probably going to be tools to start creating content for the Player Studio.
 

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
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I could be wrong but, doesn't Neverwinter already have player made dungeons? EQ2 implemented them shortly after I stopped playing, but they were extremely limited insofar as what the dungeon creator was able to do.

Edit: Sorry that was in reference to someone mentioning that a player studio would give blizzard something to steal for titan.
 

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
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I don't even have an avatar right now, lol. It's not coming out this year, it'll be late next year. Are you betting that it will be out this year? There's no way that's happening.

Edit: tad10 probably hit the nail on the head. It is probably going to be tools to start creating content for the Player Studio.
I've already stated the game will be out this year. I think you guys are way off. The game was already finished from an animation, art asset, engine and world standpoint. They are just retooling the game and from the time they announced it last year, they were working on this new version 6 months prior to that. It does not take 3 years to repurpose a game. Plain and simple. Add that to what Smed stated and from what I know, you'll just have to see.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
I could be wrong but, doesn't Neverwinter already have player made dungeons? EQ2 implemented them shortly after I stopped playing, but they were extremely limited insofar as what the dungeon creator was able to do.

Edit: Sorry that was in reference to someone mentioning that a player studio would give blizzard something to steal for titan.
Yeah, but think Project Spark not The Foundry.

@Flipmode - keep on fighting the good fight, but they're desperate for programmers so I don't think it bodes well for your timetable.