EQ Never

Convo_sl said:

I think the neckbeard term is kinda fail. We need a better name. It lacks humor.

Anyway..about a month away and we can actually start debating some real info. What's the over/under on clickies??

Click to expand...

Assburger Brigade?

Board was much better before qwerty came back from his long afk

Part of the problem is generational. People that never played without VC can't understand or relate to what we're talking about. If you started your MMOs with WoW and vent, your foundational experience is exclusively in this realm, and to you, a world without WoW gameplay and VC is too different to understand.

EQ was never about the game itself, but what came about through and by the game. You never really gave two shits about being a few percent more efficient by pushing backstab faster. Efficiency was cared about to a point, but it was never about this continual, non-stop push to get smoother rotations, faster cds, or anything. It was more RP in the sense that the game served as a conduit for social interaction, and again this social interaction was amongst the characters in Norrath or Brittania.

The old designers, intentional or no, created game systems and mechanics that let players create their own stories and situations within those mechanics. By create I don't mean a stupid tool or application. I mean it happened organically through the mechanics - which is how it should be. UO dumped a bunch of skills on you, gave you a world with harsh rules, and said go. EQ was more structured yet similar. The WoW designers impose their will on you and your choices at every single turn and step within the game. You have no choice, no ability to change or affect anything because they removed those social mechanics that allow stories and situations to arise. I'm all for new technology, but you don't need new tech to give this to players. Storybricks may be great, but it isn't necessary. You just need good designers and the fortitude to go against the marketing monkeys, but neither is anywhere to be found in this industry today.

An example of this was a guy named Jack on my UO server, Catskills. I remember this piece of shit to this fucking day, and this was over a decade ago. I remember what he wore even. My buds and I would always go Hythloth, and this fucker would trap me by sitting in the doorway so I couldn't kite from the Balrogs. This happened constantly, and later erupted into wars with him and his guild. So I knew this guy only by what he did, what actions he could take within the world, and these actions could only be done if the designers designed the mechanics in a way that, again, allowed these stories and situations to arise.

Another example would be the player-run orc fort on the road to Yew. There's a million examples such as these, and these examples are not found in WoW, in modern MMOs because they're designed out for the McKids.

That's why this industry fucking sucks, and the designers equally fucking suck for allowing the beancounters to dictate shitty design to them. And we, the real players, lose.

Dumar_sl said:

Part of the problem is generational. People that never played without VC can't understand or relate to what we're talking about. If you started your MMOs with WoW and vent, your foundational experience is exclusively in this realm, and to you, a world without WoW gameplay and VC is too different to understand.

Click to expand...

Almost everyone here played EQ. Your entire argument is built on a foundation of bullshit.

Abefroman_sl said:

Almost everyone here played EQ. Your entire argument is built on a foundation of bullshit.

Click to expand...

Then you should understand what I'm talking about when I refer to knowing someone by their character, by knowing Adriel the high elf enchanter as a funny, awesome person to group with, not as the hick, annoying ass girl with a lisp from Oklahoma.

Dumar_sl said:

Then you should understand what I'm talking about when I refer to knowing someone by their character, by knowing Adriel the high elf enchanter as a funny, awesome person to group with, not as the hick, annoying ass girl with a lisp from Oklahoma.

Click to expand...

Yes I do. The curtain has already been drawn back for me, I know what the wizard looks like now, and she has a cock. Can't unring that bell.

This debate really boils down to if people want more downtime and slower combat instead of faster combat and less downtime. That is what made EQ so social. The downtime.

qwerty_sl said:

Ignorance is bliss.

Click to expand...

Then you must be the happiest motherfucker on the entire planet.

I think that MMOs need to move away from hotbar DDR combat entirely. I feel like all these slow EQ verses fast paced wow arguments are pointless choices between a douche and a turd. I get that the nature of netcode limits options a bit, but damn, they have to be able to make something more entertaining and interesting than hotbar whack-a-mole. I think people would be just as social with lots of fast-paced fights, as long as it isn't a marathon of endless rotations, and with some down/prep time in between encounters.

I'm going to use my poster child of dark souls again, even though it's small scale. The battles are engaging and interesting, but they aren't constant and repetitive like I feel recent WoW has been. Fighting requires you to think, anticipate, block, parry, dodge, know your weapons reach/strength/weaknesses and then strike when the time is right. I felt dark souls was more challenging than any MMO I've ever played, and didn't require constant GCD button mashing, but rather focused on actual combat. My ideal combat system would be some sort of MMO form of that: Require some planning in between mobs for socializing/healing up/preparing, and make the combat more skill based, fast based, but not constant endless hours of samey rotations. It really blows my mind how people praise hotbar whack-a-mole as some sort of "has a pulse" check to put down EQ's 1999 scrolling daikuMUD combat. I think both are uninteresting and not at all fun, but at least EQ won't give me carpal tunnel and force me to be actively involved in its boring combat. Give us something fun to play, or give us melee /melody. ad nauseam repetition is not fun.

You're being weirdly aggressive. Puberty?

Tol_sl said:

I think that MMOs need to move away from hotbar DDR combat entirely.

Click to expand...

I think there's a place for DDR (e.g. Wildstar) it's just not a place I want to visit.