EQ Never
- Thread starter Convo
- Start date
I agree. Vanguard without the crappy engine and bugs would be a pretty killer game. There are things I would want to see improve though. I've played Vanguard since release and still play it so I am a fan, but some stuff does bug me:-
* Linked mobs, hate them. If some husband/wife team wants to split their way in to Hilsbury or whatever, then let them. No need to be dicks about it.
* The 3dot 4dot etc, don't like it. EQ didn't need it, people just learned that nameds were hard, and occasional tough mobs you test the water and run away if you need to. And it also meant that again, a few buddies could go in a dungeon if they want. Vanguard makes that hard by having 4/5 dot mobs that some classes cant handle well, and if linked, forgedaboudit.
* The endless quest grind. HATE it. Would much prefer to just be free to go around killing mobs for XP instead, finding somewhere that has a good supply of mobs around my level, and kill boat loads of them. Although EQ Next will be trying something new for xp I think anyway.
* Soloing - dont gimp soloers. If the world is dangerous, then grouping is promoted automatically by giving safety in numbers. But also the chance to kill any named and large quantities of mobs makes it better too. Balance it with full group xp bonuses or whatever to remain the preferred option. But dont relegate soloers to boring stuff like in Vanguard. If someone really wants to solo, they will no matter what you do. May as well let them have fun.
* Make dungeons more interesting with better ai and scripted stuff, make the mobs harder, and make lots more random movement of mobs and more roamers. Tired of this shooting gallery dungeon crawl crap.
* Let us explore on foot. Vanguards rifts now, rentable flying mounts, evac and recall back to bind, means that I hardly ever actually run anywhere. The only time I run somewhere is when I'm going from A to B on a quest which is never much fun anyway. But there are roads leading from region to region which nobody ever walks down anymore, because the rifts take you from hub to hub.
* No pay 2 win. If I am constantly gimped without buying, I will resent you. If I can get by without having to spend any money at all, then I will spend it just for fun. I did that in TSW, I was playing it for free so why not spend a bit on making my character look less like a gimp? People like spending money, SOE need to stop assuming everyone is scrooge and constantly trying to hoodwink them.
* Make loot fun again. Have everyone wear crappy cloth and rusty armour. Their first sword or first robe needs to be a big deal. Stop this constant loot appearing every 2 seconds. In fact just tonight I was playing Vanguard and I killed a named and got an upgraded helm. Literally 30 seconds later I had evacced back to town and handed in some quests and got yet another upgraded helm which was basically identical only it had +6 dex instead of 5dex. Stop this crap. Make it like EQ was, that's the only game that had loot I cared about.
* No more ez-mode grouping. If someone dies, the group failed. Don't allow the healers to just rez them mid fight like nothing happened. And bring back aggro management, no more super glue taunts for all the tanks. And lastly, bring back medding and downtime, even just a bit. Because you have to have that to create a need for mana efficiency. With this modern ez mode regen to full in 2 seconds then everyone can just unload everything they have on every single mob. I miss running out of mana and being worried about what might happen and whether we could win the next fight. Having to sit during a fight while the rest of the group carries on, is not a big deal.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,918
- 6,929
What I miss most about EQ and hope to see in EQN is distinct classes and some of their abilities. I played a SK, I loved FD (not EQ2's crap version), pet pulling, fear kiting, etc. I didn't play an enchanter but was always amazed by the good ones in the early days. Bards doing their amazing things, and necros being solo gods. Watching druids quad kite made me jealous but I didn't ask for or want that ability. All the classes excelled at something and it was great.
And many of those cool abilities were figured out by the players, not designed by the devs. That is what made it special. Modern mmo devs are too nerf happy. The EQ devs didn't nerf something just because they didn't think of it. The later EQ devs did but by then EQ was already a pale version of it's prime.
Even though my SK was pretty lame in some areas he was awesome in others (agro kings, pullers, group tank, raid off tank). And the same was true of the other classes. People figured out amazing ways to play their toons doing things other classes couldn't. Nothing like that really exists today the way it did in Everquest classic. All the edges are shaved off, the funny quirks thrown away.
If EQN brings back really distinct classes and some of their cool abilities (real FD please) then I would be in mmo heaven. Considering how mushy they made the classes in EQ2, I don't expect it will happen though. I didn't last long in EQ2 when I found out monk FD was worthless.
As for the rest, give me a sense of danger and make soloing hard but not impossible. Keep the instancing to a minimum or none at all. Give the mobs some variety and unpredictability. Don't have them all run the same speed and leash at the same distance. Keep the ui minimal and no quest hubs.. Try to get the spirit of EQ back but with a modern look and feel (whatever that means).
Oh, and hire the best character artists and animators. I don't care what they cost, do it. Using interns is lame.
Miele
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 916
- 48
I don't think battle rez is a bad thing, if there is some sort of coordination required to pull it off, for example, stun+root or kite while the rezer uses a 10s casting time spell (or epic clicky!).
In general what I don't like much of modern games is the constant limits to prevent people from doing shit the way they want. As long as you prevent exploits and punish them fast and hard, give them the freedom to do whatever they want if the risk / reward is appropriate. Sit in a dungeon for 3 weeks? AoE 30 mobs? Run a dungeon with 5 or 6 pet classes? G-flux my ass over a wall? Let me.
Leashing mobs is lame. You know it's true. Really no danger in running through mob infested areas if you know they'll leash back once you're running for 20 seconds. Also, the fact that yard trash still attacked you even at high levels is what made this game fun. a skeleton in freeport, level 1, attacked me at level 90.
- 11,313
- 2,420
Leash reduces the impact of exploration/movement spells like invis and such. I don't really think it adds much other than a way for the casual player to be able to escape fights if they go wrong so they don't get punished by death, but tbh it should either be ability based(give everyone a FD, various level of success depending on the class for example) or simply not exist, punish people with death, that's the whole point. Boss leash is alright though, so you don't pull bosses in stupid spots to exploit geometry or what not, or just to be annoying, but random mobs shouldn't necessarily leash.
Other mechanics that disapeared over time are like having mobs run away when low health, wow had that initially but they basically completely removed it cause people had to use disables or they'd pull another pack and god forbid anyone wiped for not playing correctly. Also larger patrols and shit. If you look at BRD(well old BRD don't know if it was remade or not), the large "road" area that had all these dwarves packs was filled with long distance patrols that would link another group and such, so you had to think carefully when you were pulling and sometimes move the current pack to avoid an incoming patrol while the rogue would distract them to buy time. This kind of mechanic was nice but eventually they just said fuck it and they have like one patrol that's like half a pull in some small room sometimes but it's ok cause you can just aoe everything so you pull the patrol to aoe more efficiently anyway.
Other mechanics that disapeared over time are like having mobs run away when low health, wow had that initially but they basically completely removed it cause people had to use disables or they'd pull another pack and god forbid anyone wiped for not playing correctly. Also larger patrols and shit. If you look at BRD(well old BRD don't know if it was remade or not), the large "road" area that had all these dwarves packs was filled with long distance patrols that would link another group and such, so you had to think carefully when you were pulling and sometimes move the current pack to avoid an incoming patrol while the rogue would distract them to buy time. This kind of mechanic was nice but eventually they just said fuck it and they have like one patrol that's like half a pull in some small room sometimes but it's ok cause you can just aoe everything so you pull the patrol to aoe more efficiently anyway.
Caeden
Golden Baronet of the Realm
- 7,763
- 13,044
I'd rather have all that than aggro management. If I'm tied to a single role as a class, say SK tank, then I want active defensive abilities based on reacting to mobs abilities also. Even on rats.
The thing with class uniqueness is that theorycrafting will eventually take certain classes out. There's just no way to put that back in the box. Players are so fucking obsessed with 0.5% efficiency that even the merest overlap in tools will bench the lower dps class. It's retarded but that's the playerbase that exists.
The thing with class uniqueness is that theorycrafting will eventually take certain classes out. There's just no way to put that back in the box. Players are so fucking obsessed with 0.5% efficiency that even the merest overlap in tools will bench the lower dps class. It's retarded but that's the playerbase that exists.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
- 2,394
- 287
Leashing or following you through the whole zone (though there were exceptions, but they'd remember you until you zoned) are both lame and not appropriate for a new title.
I want each type of mob to act appropriately. Territorial wildlife follows you only so far, mindless undead until you zone (or even better, agro other mobs), sentient guards dont stray too far from their post to chase you, mobs fleeing or fighting to the death, etc. Sure its a bit more work but not that much, just go through the creature types and assign them the most suitable one of a dozen behaviour templates. And it both adds to the immersion and the general danger or need for paying attention, wich are things that imo have been lost.
Soft-targeting is very good and I want it. You can still have abilities that dont hit other targets except the one you cast at, like every single target nuke in EQ ever (mage bolts were soft-targeted iirc?). Just not exclusively, having more small AE, melee swings that hit more targets etc feels better then the strict "its tagged AE or otherwise it is single target and will never miss". Yea at times it's more difficult. So what, at least it's a difficulty based on plausible game mechanics that work consistently, not bullshit level caps, immune to this or that etc labels later EQ evolved into. Was always fun testing the hard way which spell suite of my class was disabled throughout a given expansion or zone.
I want each type of mob to act appropriately. Territorial wildlife follows you only so far, mindless undead until you zone (or even better, agro other mobs), sentient guards dont stray too far from their post to chase you, mobs fleeing or fighting to the death, etc. Sure its a bit more work but not that much, just go through the creature types and assign them the most suitable one of a dozen behaviour templates. And it both adds to the immersion and the general danger or need for paying attention, wich are things that imo have been lost.
Soft-targeting is very good and I want it. You can still have abilities that dont hit other targets except the one you cast at, like every single target nuke in EQ ever (mage bolts were soft-targeted iirc?). Just not exclusively, having more small AE, melee swings that hit more targets etc feels better then the strict "its tagged AE or otherwise it is single target and will never miss". Yea at times it's more difficult. So what, at least it's a difficulty based on plausible game mechanics that work consistently, not bullshit level caps, immune to this or that etc labels later EQ evolved into. Was always fun testing the hard way which spell suite of my class was disabled throughout a given expansion or zone.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,918
- 6,929
I agree, but if the world is seamless then leashing becomes inevitable. It really depends on how the world is set up.
And as Mr Creed brought up it is better if mobs leash according to their nature. If a lioness is chasing you then it would only do so long enough to get you away from her cubs. If a guard chases you it would be a short time since he wouldn't want to leave his post. But if a Dark Lord from the Plane of Everything Evil is after your soul then it won't stop unless you or it is dead.
I also hate leashed mobs. Perhaps if they did not full reset when they decided to stop chasing you. If they simply stopped chasing and started walking back to their hub instead it may help.
I don't care if people are able to train you, but should you be able to eventually pull a level 50 mob into a level 10 zone? Probably not.
I don't care if people are able to train you, but should you be able to eventually pull a level 50 mob into a level 10 zone? Probably not.
Leashing in a seamless world is inevitable unless you give every character some kind of stop chasing me button thats on a cooldown. The cooldown preventing you from running away from fights every time.
Flipmode
EQOA Refugee
- 2,097
- 321
The occasional high level mob in a low zone adds some flavor, IMO. Keeps you on your toes.
I have fun memories of the Crushbone and Karnors trains, but the problem for a new game is in having consequences, but also in protecting the normals. I'm hopeful AI and scripting has advanced enough to enable the best of both worlds.
I don't think just enabling walk back prox aggro is a great solution, although there was nothing quite as interesting as sitting near the desert in Ro when Dorn B'Dynn runs up and beats down some random guy and decides you're next.
My intro-to-EQ character was a human ranger out of surefall glade/qeynos, so I never really had a nemesis like Slate etc harassing me as a noob.
Holly Windstalker eventually wasn't a fan of me, but she started as dubious and who the fuck knows what I did to hit the "threateningly" shit list
Holly Windstalker eventually wasn't a fan of me, but she started as dubious and who the fuck knows what I did to hit the "threateningly" shit list
Haus
I am Big Balls!
- 14,762
- 60,202
This would also lead into using USB Guitar Hero controllers for your bard.
Or a bard class where you had to hum/sing into the mic and spell effectiveness would be based on how on key you were...