EQ Never

Dumar_sl said:

Is it too much to ask to want the game to be difficult? To feel like I accomplished something getting a linen robe or banded armor? For killing a zombie at the pyramid in Nektulos?

I don't want a game where I can close my eyes and succeed. I've tried that in WoW, and youreally can do it. That's the bottom line. I can live with the art, terrible as it is, but terrible art definitely is immersion-breaking.

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It's funny, too. Making it difficult to kill that zombie at the pyramid is so key to overall dungeon design, too. In EQ, open world dungeons only worked because each mob took a bit to kill and there was a little bit of downtime related to what you were killing. I'm just really, really, really hoping that the player v enemy power dynamic isn't completely out of whack like modern games. That's really all I want, the rest of the design kind of follows it.

Guilds and alliances would be your "factions." So very fluid and ripe for juicy betrayals and drama.

I hope Smed was smart enough to not bring EQ2's raid designer into EQN. That mother fucker designed some of the most boring shit ever dropped. Oh boy a knock back and a power drain, highly entertaining shit.

Heallun_sl said:

It's funny, too. Making it difficult to kill that zombie at the pyramid is so key to overall dungeon design, too. In EQ, open world dungeons only worked because each mob took a bit to kill and there was a little bit of downtime related to what you were killing. I'm just really, really, really hoping that the player v enemy power dynamic isn't completely out of whack like modern games. That's really all I want, the rest of the design kind of follows it.

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The little things related to this will add up to make a difference. I don't want to know whether a mob is elite or not - there shouldn't even be a differentiation, some mobs should be easier, harder, and a scale in between. I shouldn't be able to see mob levels. Give me some type of rough idea - a con or whatever, but not shown exactly. Make what they spawn with noticeable and more or less difficult with weapons.

These are the things that will impact gameplay, whether it's a true successor. If it's Zyngaified and F2P-ed out the ass, and every mob dies within secs but with 'heroic' versions to appease real gamers, where the drops are just different colors of what's on the station cash store, then Sony can go fuck themselves along with Blizzard.

Heallun_sl said:

It's funny, too. Making it difficult to kill that zombie at the pyramid is so key to overall dungeon design, too. In EQ, open world dungeons only worked because each mob took a bit to kill and there was a little bit of downtime related to what you were killing. I'm just really, really, really hoping that the player v enemy power dynamic isn't completely out of whack like modern games. That's really all I want, the rest of the design kind of follows it.

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SOE Live 2012 Keynote

Jump to 45:50

Caeden_sl said:

As far as ideas put forth, the only game design I advocated hard for was one built on guild politics and alliances with all gear tied up in mobs that spawn at particular points on the land that can be controlled by guilds or alliances. The interplay and warring for those resources would be epic. No instances and no pvp balance over pve. No cap on group size.

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Ill be the first to line up and tell you I told you so when all the turds join up in an uber guild and control everything because no one wants to be in the guild that might not get the kill.

Carl_sl said:

Ill be the first to line up and tell you I told you so when all the turds join up in an uber guild and control everything because no one wants to be in the guild that might not get the kill.

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Let it be. There will also be guilds who's sole purpose is to take down that big uber guild. Competition would be fierce and making that guild fall would be magical.

Dumar_sl said:

The little things related to this will add up to make a difference. I don't want to know whether a mob is elite or not - there shouldn't even be a differentiation, some mobs should be easier, harder, and a scale in between. I shouldn't be able to see mob levels. Give me some type of rough idea - a con or whatever, but not shown exactly. Make what they spawn with noticeable and more or less difficult with weapons.

These are the things that will impact gameplay, whether it's a true successor. If it's Zyngaified and F2P-ed out the ass, and every mob dies within secs but with 'heroic' versions to appease real gamers, where the drops are just different colors of what's on the station cash store, then Sony can go fuck themselves along with Blizzard.

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/consider in EQ gave you the exact level: white if you were of the mob's level, yellow was +1 or +2 levels, red +3 and onward, on the other side, blue up to 3 levels lower and the later introduced light blue I think went to -6.
Normal, veteran, elite, champion, boss, badass motherfucker, etc. should be hidden (agree with you here) and possibly let the audience figure out what they do and how evil they are (D'Vinn... is that you? That's my leg, and my left eye!).

You know what I loved in EQ? One thing above all others: some guilds were doing the latest content, some were even one or two xpacks behind and didn't give a flying fuck, they didn't feel like they HAD to do the latest raid to have fun. I have helped my friend's guild a gazillion times in Fear and Hate while my guild was doing Velious stuff. One extra person was always welcome, no closed numbers.

It's this I hate from modern games: players may do this thing that completely crashes our prestamped progression path or loot acquisition timetable, so devs forbid them to even try. Fuck it. Make loot scarce, make hardcore poopsockers spend their life getting full sets, the others will be good enough with what they can scrap together and still have fun. I know I do, even in modern games, many others do.
I never got full Ntov loot, nor VT loot (but I got Athen's necklace ^^), but I had a load of fun getting stuff for me and for my guildmates (except two assholes, but that's part of life, so I've been told ).

Tier gear? bullshit. Mix and match from two years of content? Awesome. (IMO).

Bellringer_sl said:

Let it be. There will also be guilds who's sole purpose is to take down that big uber guild. Competition would be fierce and making that guild fall would be magical.

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Depends on game design honestly.

-If the game is server based and the content can be zerged down and everyone has a chance at rewards then the chance of it happening the majority of the time is slim.
-If the game is server based and the content can either only be accessed by a finite number of people and guilds are really exclusive ANDANDAND you can't server transfer, it'll happen more often than not.
-if the game is like EVE where it has a singular server structure (I doubt it), then it'll happen.

It really depends on the content honestly. I can see servers dominated by goon-like guilds where if you aren't in goon squad you're fucked and you just end up rolling on another server. I can also see servers that are controlled by these huge ass social guilds with 500+ people where everyone is friendly.

I've seen both in different games.

Carl_sl said:

Ill be the first to line up and tell you I told you so when all the turds join up in an uber guild and control everything because no one wants to be in the guild that might not get the kill.

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So once that top end guild fills up and they are no longer accepting apps do the rest of the players on the server just quit and give up? Maybe I'm too driven by competition in whatever I do, but I'd rather things to a have a competitive nature rather than none at all regardless if I'm in the cutting edge guild or the guild 1 or 2 tiers below.

Heallun_sl said:

It's funny, too. Making it difficult to kill that zombie at the pyramid is so key to overall dungeon design, too. In EQ, open world dungeons only worked because each mob took a bit to kill and there was a little bit of downtime related to what you were killing. I'm just really, really, really hoping that the player v enemy power dynamic isn't completely out of whack like modern games. That's really all I want, the rest of the design kind of follows it.

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Omg this! THIS! That's all I want from a new mmo. I can live with anything else they do, as long as it has this.

Nobody_sl said:

SOE Live 2012 Keynote

Jump to 45:50

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That sounds great. I just hope they haven't taken it in the other extreme and made it so no mobs can be soloed. You need to group to kill anything.

Soloing in multiplayer game seems like an oxymoron.

Daly_sl said:

So once that top end guild fills up and they are no longer accepting apps do the rest of the players on the server just quit and give up? Maybe I'm too driven by competition in whatever I do, but I'd rather things to a have a competitive nature rather than none at all regardless if I'm in the cutting edge guild or the guild 1 or 2 tiers below.

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Pretty sure a guild as horrible as goon squad doesn't ever fill up and lives for shutting everyone else down. Assimilate or never get loot. Obviously that's hypothetical though. There would still be pleanty of people wanting to play under their own flag.

It's part of any game I can think of, really. Solo and group play can co-exist just fine if your design accounts for both at all levels of play.

Edit: Soloing, was adressing Bellringer

Carl_sl said:

Pretty sure a guild as horrible as goon squad doesn't ever fill up and lives for shutting everyone else down. Assimilate or never get loot. Obviously that's hypothetical though. There would still be pleanty of people wanting to play under their own flag.

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I would imagine if you're in a guild that never fills up then the chances of getting loot diminishes because of the size of the guild. By EQ1 standards, recruiting for upper guilds was definitely put on hold for a majority of classes at times. There was no point in adding a 6th warrior, because it would only thin out loot distribution and add no real significance to raids. Like you said it's all hypothetical though, based on whether there are contested mobs, instanced raid mobs, raid limit sizes, instance timers, ect. We have no idea what we will actually be getting here.

mkopec_sl said:

It is and Im all for grouping to be encouraged and in fact be the best way to gain exp and loot, but to say that all soloing is to be excluded is just wrong IMO. There are times that you just do not want to deal with people or under time constraints, or whatever.

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I agree. Plenty of classes could solo in EQ. The problem was some were way better at it then others. Grouping should always be the best exp but not the only option to get exp. Even in EQ grouping wasn't the best exp for some classes.

Best loot was from raiding and grouping, which was always the most fun too. I always roll my eyes at the every class needs to be able to solo shit.

Carl_sl said:

Pretty sure a guild as horrible as goon squad doesn't ever fill up and lives for shutting everyone else down. Assimilate or never get loot. Obviously that's hypothetical though. There would still be pleanty of people wanting to play under their own flag.

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This is the best post.

Nobody_sl said:

SOE Live 2012 Keynote

Jump to 45:50

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I hear that, I really do. I just want to believe it's true. Orc pawn with the scythe kinda badassery