EQ Never

Isn't Darkfall being redone? Thought there was a thread on FoH about them releasing it again with lots of changes.

Itzena_sl said:

I love posts like this: "Yeah, I played WoW for a couple of months and found it too easy". So how many heroic raids, scenarios, etc. did you do?

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Are you saying WOW PVE is difficult from a "skill" perspective? If so, lol.

Itzena_sl said:

I love posts like this: "Yeah, I played WoW for a couple of months and found it too easy". So how many heroic raids, scenarios, etc. did you do?

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To be fair, I don't really harp on people for that style of opinion anymore. Yeah there was plenty of shit at the end game that was hard and rough. Then again you're supposed to make an impact with a game early on. In WoW there's absolutely nothing you can 'challenge' yourself on until you've been playing for a month or more. People should still be able to somehow select "nightmare difficulty" soon out of the gate. There are plenty of people who have been playing MMO's for 12 years, I don't need a 3 week tutorial to tell me how to right click on mobs.

Itzena_sl said:

I love posts like this: "Yeah, I played WoW for a couple of months and found it too easy". So how many heroic raids, scenarios, etc. did you do?

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I know you did not ask me, but it applies to me too. Answer for me is none. Because I did not last long enough to try them. That is all on me. I did not like it. Millions of others did. Most enjoyed their mmo for the very first time, as I said in the previous post, without ever knowing what was before. Ding was something everyone said when they leveled, few knew the actual sound.

I miss being in the position of not wanting to die in a game. Where the world is perilous. Not just because of PvP, because I did not play on a EQ PvP server. I never knew the Zeks other than having a character I tried to run about with for a bit. Never got close to max level. But the difference between a Zek server and a carebear server in EQ, seems just as vast as a carebear server from EQ to todays PvE mmos.

A PvP server adds the constant danger of being killed repeatedly by a players camping next to a quest area. Entire world is dangerous. While it certainly adds tension, it is not "scary" for me, it can quickly become annoying as every 10 steps you take, there seems to be another Dvinn or Slate. EQ managed it to feel dangerous by just being in the world. Being able to sneak through areas with a random lasting invisibility spell knowing that the mobs there would destroy me if they saw me, and it really sucked to die, that was scary. But if invis failed, I knew there were certain things I might be able to do to live. It was dangerous, but not instadeath. Rarely did you see people run around alone and explore raid zones (until later). On the PvP games I have tried, rarely have there been a buffer between what you encounter. When you encounter someone 30 levels above you in a PVP game, you might as well be facing off with a raid encounter. You will die. Every time. Some people are crazy enough to want that. I hope they get it, fun for them. I hope they add PvP servers. I am sure quite a lot would enjoy those. But I also know that it is possible to make a dangerous world without forcing you to be involved with PvP. They did it before.

Before in EQ I was on a carebear PvE server. Now over a decade later, asking for EQ PvE rulesets gets put in the same category as full on FFAPvP worlds. Wut?

Convo_sl said:

Darkfall isn't the best game to be tossing around to gauge peoples responses. It was really fucked up in 2.0 beta and a lot of people like me buried it. It had potential but it lacks funds and a good dev team or should I say leadership? .

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As I've said if you say you want 'danger' and consequences Darkfall has these features. If you whinge games aren't old school and haven't at least tried Darkfall you really don't have a leg to stand on. I can understand people may not enjoy it after trying it but at the end of the day it has the features a lot of people THINK they want. How much you enjoy the game is obviously a subjective thing. It's like me whinging there is not a local soccer team when there is one just down the road. Now I can get there and not enjoy the quality of football but to not even go down and try it out I obviously don't want to play soccer that much.

Convo_sl said:

It's not a fair argument tho. DF was flawed and I believe a lot of people here could do without the PvP. So when they say danger they mean running through Kithicor forest at night. Or some random HG in WC.

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A return of that old style of danger is sorely needed. But the PvP aspect is a lot of fun also. I'm hoping EQNext has a good mix of both.

DMK_sl said:

Do you play Darkfall?

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I try to avoid angry Greeks and broken games :/

Guilds are the soft faction you are looking for Pyros.

There's the pvpers who want battlegrounds, arena, resilience gear or unlimited level range griefing, training or other forms of retardation.

Then there's people who've played all these types of games, have seen how they work from the player end but also consider the CSR management end. EQ's RZ I think really got lucky (much like a lot of other things in EQ) and hit the nail on the head.

Smed and others are talking about this world pvp system like they did their home work, and I'm intrigued... with realistic expectations of course.

DMK_sl said:

As I've said if you say you want 'danger' and consequences Darkfall has these features. If you whinge games aren't old school and haven't at least tried Darkfall you really don't have a leg to stand on. I can understand people may not enjoy it after trying it but at the end of the day it has the features a lot of people THINK they want. How much you enjoy the game is obviously a subjective thing. It's like me whinging there is not a local soccer team when there is one just down the road. Now I can get there and not enjoy the quality of football but to not even go down and try it out I obviously don't want to play soccer that much.

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We seem to have posted at the same time, but read post above yours.

Not trying to be confrontational, but do you really see a simelarity between EQ PvE and full on PvP worlds? They are two entirely different things in my eyes. Without knowing much about Darkfall or EVE, other than having briefly tried both, if they had introduced a server where everything was the same, but with no PvP, would there be any danger left? Do the players make the world dangerous, or is the world dangerous in itself? In EQ PvP servers added an extra level of difficulty and danger that came from being able to die when you did not want to, by other players. Though as Convo said, when night set on Kitchitor I imagine people on PvP servers still ran, no matter if there were other players there or not. The only difference between a carebear server in EQ and a Zek server would be that on Zek running hugging the zone wall to the east would no longer be as safe. Getting caught in the middle would still kill you on both servers.

I do not understand the supposed inability to go back to a middle ground, and I do think I have paid enough attention to the genre to know that there is nothing that compares to the EQ PvE experience. Several mmos that give better combat, better graphics, animations, all that. But it is undeniable that some things are outright gone from mmos. From large to simple mechanics. I remember EQ was dark at night. Eventually you were always equipped with an item that had ultra or infravision. But I am glad I had the experience of being terrified of the orc pawn outside west freeport. Is it a fix to remove something that you will "grow" out of? I personally liked that they made me afraid of the dark in the beginning. You grew out of it, but the experience was there. MMOs today have nights brighter than the best EQ spell and gamma adjustments could make them.

One of my most memorable EQ experiences was exploring a dungeon and I fell through a floor trap. Fell down several levels. Forget the name of it. There are goblins there and an opening in the floor where you fall into a room with a locked door. Pet aggro was not removed then and I had fallen too far from the pet to dismiss it. It pathed down to where I was and pulled everything to me. I still remember that as one of the most panicful experiences I have had in any game. Had an unorganized spell book, and like the man I was, I had not memmed gate. I had no idea where I was, I had no key to open the door (pet opened it to get in though...), and I would leave all my stuff there. Died horribly when the door opened and came to me along with lots of angry mobs. PvP played no part of the fear I felt, as the only player experience in that adventure was a helpful one as I had to ask for a necro to come summon my body.
Pet aggro was later "fixed" because it crated problems for bad mages with no pet control. Only reason I remember it so vividly was because of the associated fear of the death penalty along with knowledge of the combination of pet aggro with mobs that would not stop chasing until zoned or dead. Features that no longer play a part of any PvE mmo created a memory impossible outside of EQ.

Nobody even cares about being chased anymore because a) They do not chase for long. b) rare that one individual mob can kill you. c) When they break follow, they will not attack other players while returning to the spawn. In EQ, on a simple easy to play on PvE server, they would chase you until zone, would more often than not kill you if they caught you, and would proceed to attack anyone while walking back where they came from. Granted in a zoneless world, it is hard to imagine mobs never dropping aggro, but I would rather have that than what is apparently the norm today.

I honestly have not seen anything on the market delivering the sense of being in a world like EQ did. We have taken the two steps forwards, it is time to take one step back. And I am fairly certain that if EQN does not do it, none will. It will continue the line of extreme casual or hardcore. Segments like me who want a middle ground, a harsh PvE world the community can join together to overcome are harder to create for and will offer less subs. Devs in Blizzard will not get board approval to make a game that deviates massively from WoW which earned them billions. Devs in new mmos will not get board approval that caters away from what appears to be the market. Makings will either be PvP or PvE. PvP games leaves the danger to the players, PvE offers none until higher level when you are more comfortable facing it. I feel like the forgotten middle child. Pay attention to me damnit! I am here too!!!!

PS: If anyone know what dungeon with that trap floor and such was, please let me know. Sucks that I forgot that

Sounds something out of Sol A or Runneye. Where the goblins red or green?

Lost Ranger_sl said:

Yeah, anyone who claims WoW raiding is "EZ mode" is pretty much full of shit. Most of the game IS designed for window lickers, but the cutting edge heroic raiders are worthy of respect. That shit is hard, and anyone who claims it is just about watching videos, memorizing moves, and then collecting lootobviouslyhasn't done it. I understand that WoW and EQ fans have some deep hatred for each other, but give fucking credit where it is due.

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Not denying it in the least, but I find it depressingly artificial. Every hoop you have to jump through is so fake it makes me laugh, avoid ae while dpsing may be too simple, after many years, but some fights get borderline comical in the amount of silly stuff you have to perform, the moscow ballet team wouldn't hold a candle to a 25 heroic raiding guild. Maybe I like more a different type of difficulty (attrition, resource management, control) rather than a pure technical difficulty, but once past Molten Core (quite easy) up to ICC (last thing I raided and it was only in 10 normal) the fun factor kinda... diminished over time. By Cata I didn't care anymore, and in MoP I hardly login for loot, while I enjoy more the 5-men challenges with the gear cap, they force people to play well on a small scale.

Is there any community online that cares about EQ Next more than we do? 360+ pages and this is, what, the third iteration of the thread? WTB some dev posts :/

Been away from computers for a few days, but I wish to add that the idea that you can't have a sandbox without PVP apparently hasn't actually played in a sandbox in real life. Cooperative play that opens up alternate avenues of play or enhances other areas of the game is an easily viable and design-friendly concept as well.

The view that you -have- to be a pvp game to be a sandbox game is very unimaginative, in my opinion. Scroll through the posts where I'm not dissecting faulty memories about specific mechanics in EQ/WoW/etc and you'll find a few examples how a sandbox can be cooperative instead of strictly competitive. Not saying that competition is bad, but it certainly isn't required.

Also, kudos for the kids realizing that quests occurred in EQ and that just because the word instance/quest/solo/whatever is used, doesn't mean that the way it has been used is the -only- way it can be used. If this thread can make marginal progress, then maybe there's hope for the hipsters.