EQ Never

zzeris

The Real Benny Johnson
<Gold Donor>
21,254
93,014
On that note, I'd rather be pleasantly surprised when the game comes out rather than find out that "The Second Coming of Jesus" was just the name for a Mexican birthday clown's first ever performance.
I've always hated that saying. The easiest way to be pleasantly surprised? Quit following the game and then just keep your beta application updated. Either you find out that you like the game, or you are pleasantly surprised you won't have to waste your time with it later. Easy. Save that money for an experienced Mexican clown. The rest of this is just random supposition by people that are still looking for EQ1 updated. Even if that would happen somehow, it's not on the horizon right now.
 

Randin

Trakanon Raider
1,933
892
To break away from the roundtable discussion briefly:

What ever happened to the combat doc by the way?
Yeah, is anyone here on Twitter and willing to pester Georgeson about that? I wouldn't be shocked if he forgot he had ever said anything about making it.
 

Silence_sl

shitlord
2,459
5
The claim is that they can't reveal everything because they're afraid the player base couldn't handle it - contrast this with the statement back in March where they said they would "reveal everything." So yes, the marketing & PR is beyond retarded.
Maybe they realized they remade Free Realms in an EQ skinBut With Voxels! (tm), and are trying to hide that fact. Or, maybe they realized they laid off too many workers, and their only hope in completing the game is to train the night janitor and security to work the building tools.
 

Randin

Trakanon Raider
1,933
892
Oh yeah, and while the dev responses to the latest roundtable are less than ideal, I feel I should point out something that puts it a little more in perspective. Since we've got a roundtable response video to it that more or less outlined their current plans for it, I looked back at the initial dev responses to the armor appearance poll. Looking at those responses, a majority of the devs seemed to support essentially unrestrained ability to customize your armor appearances, but in the video they ended up laying out a system where, while you can customize amor appearances, it looks more restrained than what other games have done.

*shrugs*It's hardly a decent sample size to draw a conclusion from, but when looking at the initial roundtable comments, we may have to assume that they are officially taking off their dev hats when they post them, and not really take them as clear indicators of where the game is actually going.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,394
287
I hope they'll have something interesting to show us at PAX. I just pray it isn't a rehashed version of their only presentation.
They wont have more to show, that much should be clear to anyone following the game. They are still pre-alpha or whatever you want to call it and all the stuff we discuss back and forth only exists on a napkin. That's why you dont have the combat details that were promised weeks ago. That's probably also why the interview approval for SB is taking so long. I dont expect any big EQN info until 2014.


Boxes are hella sandy in here tonight cause of this (no) contest talk. Where's that Teekey guy at (edit /\ oh there he is), someone needs to talk the doom and gloomers down off the ledge. I'm sure there will be plenty of contests. Just relax.


I still don't get why much of this couldn't be resolved simply by having different servers with different rulesets.

Server 1: PvE. Artificials aren't very intelligent. Death isn't a big deal. No Contest.Timmy is happy.
Server 2: PvP. Emergency AI turned up to 11. Death is a significant set-back. Heated competition. For the hardest of the core.
Server 3, 4, etc: Somewhere inbetween

In any event, someone needs to name their guild "Denial of Service" and go around causing trouble and butthurt for everyone else. That'll be fun to watch.
No, Timmy isnt happy. In the mind of Timmy he belongs on server 2 and should excel there, and the game rules should be bend until he can compete. You cant make a pre-school server "for the masses" and expect that to solve complaints, because everyone agrees you need such a server, but only for everyone else.

The "issues" they say they are fixing are exactly the gameplay elements that made EQ interesting. EQN will suck, guaranteed.

They are so heavily invested in fixing "Denial of service" issues that they have forgotten that that is what EQ was about.
I wouldnt say it will suck, but removing the obstacles from MMOs is what turned into this shallow, boring puddle. Continuing the path Blizzard follows and removing obstacles is going to turn this into another 6-week-wonder like GW2, TOR, Rift, etc ... which is probably what you are saying.

There's a difference between taking a 'Lets wait and see' attitude with realistic expectations, and just straight up attacking every thing they say, do, etc. People need to stop getting their panties in such a twist and just chill the fuck out. The craziness in this thread lately is FAR from logical.

And their PR is fine. EverQuest Next is so fucking far off that the supposed 'conditioned' MMO veterans freaking out about hype or marketing at this stage is almost comical. Regardless, their biggest marketing tool is going to be Landmark, moreso than meaningless polls on the 'Round Table'.
I think the problem is their bi-polar comments. On one side they say your actions and decisions matter and they want people to share and shape the world. On the other side they backpedal from that with denial of service or RC conclusions being inevitable. One implied conclusion I draw is that you also wont have meaningful personal choices faction-wise. Georgeson said that is thier (his?) goal. To Butler its probably denial of service and druids hating your for leveling on treants is fixable over the weekend. That's just an assumption by me but it's the vibe in their comments. All the hate Georgeson gets might be misdirected, I'd rather have him calling the shots then Butler for example.

Like I said above actual EQN info isnt going to come this year so every little misquote is blown way out of proportion here, especially considering that they only refer to their plans and those can easily change for the better (less instancing, finally going towards EVE like some were hoping before the reveal) or it can change for the worse (easing things to prevent denial of service situations, basically going down the path WoW went like Tad said a couple of pages ago).
 

Mughal

Bronze Knight of the Realm
279
39
Yeah, is anyone here on Twitter and willing to pester Georgeson about that? I wouldn't be shocked if he forgot he had ever said anything about making it.
Gamescon+Dragoncon+PAX+whatever con is there as well this week is keeping them busy. I would not expect new info as they are pushing to new audiences what we have seen already. I think it will be few weeks before we get anything new.
 
6,216
8
OOzPEus.jpg


So this guy wants the contested Vox to drop a Crystalline Spear & also have "a crystalline spear" same stats available from a quest hub asking you to kill dock rats.

kwtrFTa.jpg


and this guy is mad because he doesn't commit "hardcore" time and has to suffer through watching others wear gear he wants.


Great.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,859
8,265
Their responses don't even both me very much. It's fucking Butler's and Mcphersons that rustle my jimmies.

McPherson says he wants all non contested content so he can decide exactly when he wants to play. Total bullshit. He wants to decide when he wants to play, and get to do EXACTLY what he wants to do in that time. The goal for a dev should be to create a world where a player has a multitude of meaningful options that fit into various chunks of time. 'I have the weekend off, so I'm gonna poopsock xyz raid mobs'. 'I have an hour before work, so I'm gonna do some crafting or edit my house'. 'I have a few hours until the wife agros, I'm gonna run a dungeon'. Don't have a large chunk of time? GUESS YOU DON'T GET TO DO THE RAREST CONTENT IN THE GAME THAT DAY BOO HOO. Fucking entitled casual pricks. Did Smed not say something months ago about this game being difficult, and that options exist for people who want a casual experience?

And Butler... Really man... Fuck this guy. They have been saying all along there won't be repeatable content. 'Only fun for those who get there first'? This directly contradicts past statements about the nature of MOB behaviour in this game.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,792
664
Teekey there is some need for caution at this point. I understand you're taking the wait and see approach but its too passive for a game still in development. People need to go overboard on thier criticism because half the time SoE does a poor job of relaying info. This is the time to speak up..not when the game hits open beta.

BTW..Butler has gotten a lot of credit in the past but how much of it was really because of things Brad was in charge of/working on?

The no new info for a while is kind of fucked up too. It's like they are traveling salesman showing their canned demo at every event. Really week stuff.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,887
14,712
They seem to keep contradicting themselves. Makes me feel like this game is going to have no real identity and just be a mish mash of convoluted garbage. A lot of people here seem to be far less skeptical than their normal selves about EQN and I'm not sure why.

Uncontested content is boring and stale at this point. When WOW did it, it was fresh and new and exciting for players like me. I was very hardcore but hadn't started playing until right before Velious was released and so, I was not in the #1 guild on Drinal (Cats in Hats). They weren't recruiting shaman when I hit level cap and the #2 and 3 guilds were falling apart. I ended up joining a splinter faction of those #2 and 3 guilds and they were more than capable players but CiH had everything on lockdown so I didn't get to experience a lot of end game content until just before Luclin hit and CiH was done with NToV, Skyshrine, Kael, etc.

When WOW released I was stoked that I didn't have to worry about other players cockblocking me and sure enough the guild I ran had server firsts through the first portions of MC. But I've realized over the lifetime of WOW and how it's changed that I would prefer at this point to go back. Even though I never got to experience Sleeper's Tomb with the Warders I had good enough raid gear from the other raids we were doing that I could have a lot of fun with my main outside of raiding. In WOW the only reason I ever had to get raid gear was to make the next raid tier easier. In EQ I wanted to get raid gear so I could try cool shit like soloing dragons in WW or duo camping high value items with a monk friend that we otherwise would have needed a full group for. That was FUN. In WOW, even early on, I would just log onto an alt after raids were done for the night. Soulbound items are killing this genre for me.
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
everything that made EQ great will not make it into this game. they've learned nothing. all they did was drop the WoW clone and just clone every other game currently in the industry instead. they stopped making a mexican food shit to make an indian food one.
 

slicedmass_sl

shitlord
132
0
everything that made EQ great will not make it into this game. they've learned nothing. all they did was drop the WoW clone and just clone every other game currently in the industry instead. they stopped making a mexican food shit to make an indian food one.
They see WoW taking current mmo's (at its time) and perfecting the mechanics in to a single game as success (which as we know its a success) and want to pull the same stunt with the current popular mmo/multiplayer games (minecraft/LoL/WoW) and expect a huge playerbase. I honestly feel like EQNL is their test of how many people they can get playing and then they will put in some of the mechanics of the future EQN to see how players react and this is a big reason they are so crapy with their information because they dont know shit all.
 

Couloir_sl

shitlord
40
0
Convo80
@DaveGeorgeson what's the deal with the combat doc? I know you guys are busy but you're the one that brought it up. Give us something. Plz

David Georgeson?
@Convo80 sorry. Tweets went by about this. We chimed in on reedit threads instead. We're building examples instead.

Not sure where they chimed in on reddit about it...but it couldn't possibly be anything substantial anyways. But hey, they're building examples, that's good. Building voxel shit must finally be getting old.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,792
664
So big Dave just told me instead of the combat doc they decided to post in reedit threads and use examples instead..

I followed up informing him that not all of us go there bc it's over moderated and we would prefer something more concrete on thier site
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,041
Soulbound items are killing this genre for me.
This. BoE/BoP have had such a massive influence on the genre that it's pretty unreal. The implications of it have reached far beyond, I think, what most people expect.

Personally, I'd like to see a strong mix of contested and uncontested content. The carrot for the contested stuff can simply be superior drop rates when named do spawn and that the items dropped willnotbe soulbound or BoE, and won't have min levels. Let the items from contested content be huge economic boons, really valuable because they are so fungible. Leave the option open to do an instance version of the dungeon, but have it so you get far less drops overall, and the drops are BoP--so there is less economic benefit to do those dungeons, but there is still a way to do content and improve your own character when everything is camped.

In other words, make killing contested content socially valuable (Through selling items) and make uncontested content personally valuable (So people who only have an hour can try and make their character better).

Combine the above with very rare gear, and "soft cap" like advancement systems, so the rewards for doing things are character specific (Gaining experience in the dungeon) and you can have instanced dungeons where there isn't a "fore sure" chance to get loot but still make it so people won't feel like they've wasted their time, because they have advanced their character (Through soft cap experience gains). Hopefully this would give further incentive to do the contested version because of the higher consistency of drops (Combined with, as said, more fungible rewards--being able to sell and twink with them.)

Anyway, I really don't see why games had to become "one or the other". Develop a system that works both ways. But actuallydevelopthe system to give incentive to both. Don't just plop in contested vs uncontested and wonder why no one ever does contested (IE reward the larger social difficulty of contested spawns.)
 

2002User

Bronze Knight of the Realm
310
43
Yeah, you can't help but think Smed's love of MOBAs is a driving factor behind the design. Which begs the question: where is the EVE influence?

@Quaid good call.
Just how Smed's love of BF3 was the driving factor behind making PlanetSide 2 a no thought required FPS compared to the depth and intricacy of PlanetSide 1.
 

dgrabs_sl

shitlord
172
0
So big Dave just told me instead of the combat doc they decided to post in reedit threads and use examples instead..

I followed up informing him that not all of us go there bc it's over moderated and we would prefer something more concrete on thier site
lol just another deflection. Now there's no timetable on when we can expect anything. We just know they're "building examples instead," which will most likely be similar to the completely uninformative combat scenes they've shown 10000x over so far.

PAX is going to be very very interesting.

Edit: That came off as overly critical when it's likely just a harmless tweet and they may in fact be working on something substantial. I just don't like the fact that they're already failing to fulfill promises.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,792
664
He went on to say they are working on a demo to show combat. They don't feel a doc will work because its hard to describe and people will react before reading thoroughly. So we wait for the demo. No eta.

Btw I expect the same canned demo at pax that we just got. No new info
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
Just how Smed's love of BF3 was the driving factor behind making PlanetSide 2 a no thought required FPS compared to the depth and intricacy of PlanetSide 1.
So I take it you prefer the MOBA classes? As discussed Diku-style combat/classes may be "old" but then again so is chess and Go and you don't see people replacing Go with stones that have different abilities.

The advantage of DikU class/combat are that (1) People like Roles, (2) Developers can easily design encounters for the playerbase (3) Replayability - it's a different game if you play as a Druid instead of a Warrior, (4) Easy to Learn, Hard to Master, and (5) non-twitch based so anyone can play. I enjoyed LOL for the time I played it (two months) but it's not a combat style I want to play all the time.