EQ Never

I think having a group finder that is server only, does NOT port you to the instance, and do not let the instance have a leave zone option, would be a start for a better LFG tool

Ambiturner_sl said:

If you have a better system than spamming the LFG for hours while you watch TV, we'd love to hear it. Group finders were added for a reason.

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Make friends. Join a guild. Create contacts of people who you have grouped with before. I remember many times seeing multiple people LFG and no one would take the initiative to start the group and go do something. How about stop watching TV and put effort into the game you are playing? If they deliver on destroying the traditional roles in game then there should be no problem missing a tank or healer or w/e.


Hell why is this convo even relevant, its not like we are actually going to need to group to get xp, levels, or whatever it is they are going to do in EQN. SOLO MMO. LFR? Looking for Refund.

So basically things you can do in any game ever? You can do that in Wow too, you know? Nobody forces you to use the group finder or stops you from making friends do why do you care? People who are antisocial and just want to do LFDs aren't people you'd want to group with in the first place. TSW catered to stupid people who thought LFD and progression were bad terrible things. It failed hard for those exact reasons.

Telling people that they have to have fun your way and limiting features because community!1! is not a step in the right direction.

Quaid_sl said:

Finding a group IS content IMO. But I'm probably in the minority on this.

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And lets put this down as "Dumb shit, that should never be said".

Ambiturner_sl said:

So basically things you can do in any game ever? You can do that in Wow too, you know? Nobody forces you to use the group finder or stops you from making friends do why do you care? People who are antisocial and just want to do LFDs aren't people you'd want to group with in the first place. TSW catered to stupid people who thought LFD and progression were bad terrible things. It failed hard for those exact reasons.

Telling people that they have to have fun your way and limiting features because community!1! is not a step in the right direction.

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"Denial of Service" WAHHH. Your thought process is the destroyer of communities.

No, players themselves are destroyer of communities.

cinge_sl said:

And lets put this down as "Dumb shit, that should never be said".

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Meh, all depends on your definition of 'content' and what you derive 'fun' from in an MMORPG. I've always found the combat and actually 'playing' MMOs to be a little boring... It's navigating social relationships, political power, and economics that ive always found interesting. Those are really the only things that MMOs offer that another genre doesn't do better (excluding large scale raiding, of course)

Well here's the thing. If you go to a mall you see hundreds of people walking around going about their business. People are shopping for whatever it is they are shopping for and there is very little shopper on shopper interaction. They are all in the same place shopping for the same things, but they have zero need to interact. This translates into different social situations, including online. You put people in the situation where they need to interact and there is much more of a chance for bonds to be made. On that same coin, there is much more of a chance for people to hate each other as well. That is fine, it happens in communities. But if people have the option to just log on, do what they want to do and log off w/o dealing with other people, people will choose that route. That is what destroys the community. So you are right. People do destroy the community. Having access to mechanisms to ignore the social aspect of the game destroys the community as well. They go hand and hand.

I never have problems making friends/joining guilds and interacting socially in games with the dreaded dungeon finders. If you're completely unable to make friends or get along with people who aren't forced into it, maybe the problem is you.

I apparently fail at attaching .gif.


However, let's see if I can make it more clear for you since you seemed to have misinterpreted my point. If the average person can play the game with little to no social interaction, they are taking up valuable space on a server that is (to what I understand of the acronym MMO) designed for people to play together. It's the whole "people need to depend on each other" debate.

So it's all about saving bandwidth then? ok I guess

The real problem is you're forcing people to play your way. You shouldn't limit people's freedom to do what they want because you know what's best. If someone wants to be a little social butterfly or an antisocial asperger's case then that's their business. Purposely omitting features that serve important functions is just taking a step backwards.

Taking a step backwards is always better than going the wrong way forward.

Its just different play styles, just give us different servers with different rule sets.

Ambiturner_sl said:

If you have a better system than spamming the LFG for hours while you watch TV, we'd love to hear it. Group finders were added for a reason.

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and

Ambiturner_sl said:

I never have problems making friends/joining guilds and interacting socially in games with the dreaded dungeon finders. If you're completely unable to make friends or get along with people who aren't forced into it, maybe the problem is you.

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I don't see how these two quotes fit together. If you are having such an easy time making friends and socially interacting, why are you sitting in LFG for hours watching TV?

Ambiturner_sl said:

If you have a better system than spamming the LFG for hours while you watch TV, we'd love to hear it. Group finders were added for a reason.

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Group finder goes hand in hand with gimped-down easy content. Instead of watching TV while you wait for a group you now watch TV while you follow 4 other distracted silent people through some corridors and tab/1/2/3 your way to another token you need 50 of. Sure it gets you the loot eventually but it's not all that entertaining without the tv.

Spynx_sl said:

I think having a group finder that is server only, does NOT port you to the instance, and do not let the instance have a leave zone option, would be a start for a better LFG tool

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I would prefer it that way, but you get into all those server population issues (and level disparity or faction imbalance). Still waiting for a game that solves that well.


But really, step 1 is making interesting, challenging content for groups. People will want to hedge their bets and make their own groups to tackle a challenge. Dont make your game a dispenser for free loot with +gooder just to keep that sub money flowing. Good luck convincing a publisher that not appealing to the biggest audience is the way to go. Step 2 would be providing decent content for 2-3 people in the vicinity of the content for full groups, so people can be closeby and lfg while still accomplishing something. I guess step 3 is ??? and step 4 is profit.

"group finders were added for a reason". What reason was that, exactly? IIRC the WoW dungeon finder was introduced in January of 2010 (patch 3.3?) give or take a month, and WoW's subscriber base began to decline in the same calendar year...

In my mind, this fact suggests that your argument is flawed. From my experience, the only thing that keeps people playing MMOs is social interaction. When you erode it people start to realize "hey, why the fuck am I playing this only moderately-entertaining-loot-gerbil-wheel when I could actually be having fun playing CoD?"

Group finders and cross-realm features were added because they (WoW) have a million or so underpopulated and are putting tons of dev effort into avoiding server merges. Same with the connected realms feature. Wish they would just merge servers and put the dev effort into more content.

There aren't enough pictures of dead horses, but I'll chime in nonetheless: LFD/LFR are tools, what matters is the content. If it's faceroll, nobody is going to say anything to anyone and just pretend anyone else is a bot. If it takes coordination and planning, some may play a different role, for example leading the group/raid, coordinating healers, cc, etc.
Most of the automated group stuff is facerollable, period. Tah dah, reason #1 why nobody fosters community in randomly formed groups.

There are some other reasons:
- Scarcity of certain roles, hence the need for multiserver matchmaking to speed up (theoretically) the queue times.
- Content made obsolete, for example WoW 5men dungeons that become speedruns for the few that still care doing them.
- Absolute lack of tools to list other people in a xrealm friends list: let's say I meet a great mage, good at dps and good at saving people from oh shit moments, too bad he's not on my server: chances I'll meet him again? 0.00001%. Real ID gets too personal sometimes.
- Content lasting 20 minutes tops, with very few exceptions: you are not embarking on an adventure with potential friends, you are just heading to the mall to do a quick purchase of goods (tokens, currency).
- No dropped loot worth talking about: funny enough I enjoy more the dungeon runs done during levelling because I often get nice upgrades that last me a couple levels.
- More to be added according to your personal experience and taste.

I'd be for a LFG tool similar to EQ one during PoP: it was used to list class/level and a line of notes where you could write what you were interested in.
I'd even be ok with no instant travel nor teleportation to the adventuring area, maybe do a McDungeon server for those who want those features and a Immersive server for those who don't want them (yeah I'm biased, I still play WoW tho).
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PhoneticHalo_sl said:

I liked the EQ system. But i'm sure many many others didn't. You were in areas so long you knew most people your level and getting a group wasn't as hard as people make out. Send PM to group leader, get your name on a list and wait to be called in. Solo while you waited (if you could). Ok it wasn't the quickest way but it felt the most natural and immersive. Was also a good reason to join a guild make friends and be good at the game. but yeah if you don't want to wait or make friends be in a guild and be max level asap then the group finding tool is good.

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Given that I've always been in a good guild during my EQ time, I rarely pugged, but when I had to, I didn't like the concept of lists at all and I certainly don't find them neither immersive nor natural. Natural would mean I talk to people while in town and we decide together to go hunt for something. "Frenzy got 1 free slot, next on list is...." doesn't sound very immersive to me, on the contrary.

Miele_sl said:

There aren't enough pictures of dead horses

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http://member.guinnessworldrecords.c...ter/login.aspx

We should totally apply under the catagory "Number of Times for rehashing the same argument". Even women let things go faster than this community.