EQ Never

Wage_sl said:

and



I don't see how these two quotes fit together. If you are having such an easy time making friends and socially interacting, why are you sitting in LFG for hours watching TV?

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Lots of reasons? Play at odd hours, friends not logged on/are currently busy/whatever, bad combo of classes, etc. It's not like the choices are A: no friends always alone sad me or B: Always 50+ friends on dying to get me to join them. And the fact that it took almost a year for WoW's population to decline should prove it wasn't because of LFD.

Definitely wasting my time with this argument. The recent games that have been released without LFD have suffered big time because of it. TSW is fucking terrible this way. You sit in the central hub and people spam the shit out of the LFG channel advertising they want to run X or that they need Y classes with 10.4 gear. Finding groups becomes a damn job interview because when something's a big pain in the ass nobody wants to risk wasting all their time with a scrub who guarantees they can't finish the dungeon.

Agreed, the question so much "will EQN have dungeon finder" but will EQN have "dungeon adventure" experiences or hallway speedruns.

To swerve the topic a bit, I would love a departure from tokens as the main means of acquiring items. Hated that in GW2, even more because the dropped loot was so worthless too so you literally only went for the token and the gold. the random loot might have its downside but after experiencing both options for long enough that novelty has worn off on both, I prefer dropped loot.

Ambiturner_sl said:

Lots of reasons? Play at odd hours, friends not logged on/are currently busy/whatever, bad combo of classes, etc. It's not like the choices are A: no friends always alone sad me

or B: Always 50+ friends on dying to get me to join them. And the fact that it took almost a year for WoW's population to decline should prove it wasn't because of LFD. .

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No, you cant be sure that the LFD system caused the decline... But it certainly didn't prevent one.

However, I will say, the reason you see a less drastic population decline (aka anomalous increase) in 2010 is because of cataclysm release... But it had been trending down since late 2009.

a robust lfg feature is a must, what form it takes should be the question. Do you scale back to WoWs original BG queue system where you had to be at the instance to queue? That is a good solution if you have horizontal progression without to much player spread and maybe cross server queues to make sure queues aren't too long.

I am sure there will be some static dungeons but if they also plan to reward exploration and crafting they may not be the end all be all of gearing up like they are in eq and wow. So that type of content might be the stuff that rewards adventuring with a static group of friends.

there is lots of shit they can do without defaulting to mcdungeon.

Mr Creed_sl said:

Agreed, the question so much "will EQN have dungeon finder" but will EQN have "dungeon adventure" experiences or hallway speedruns.

To swerve the topic a bit, I would love a departure from tokens as the main means of acquiring items. Hated that in GW2, even more because the dropped loot was so worthless too so you literally only went for the token and the gold. the random loot might have its downside but after experiencing both options for long enough that novelty has worn off on both, I prefer dropped loot.

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Tokens are a replacement for the loss of experience gains in dungeons due to a shift in quest progression and quick leveling. Sounds odd, I know, but one of the reasons why pure random loot in EQ worked is because, most of the time, even if you did NOT get something, you got experience for AA's or a new level. So no matter what, you came away with some kind of power increase. Once levels became kind of a punch card to begin the end game? Power became purely about loot acquisition. And if the only reason you go to a dungeon is for items, then you need to walk away with something, or else your experience there feels wasted. (How demoralizing was it to do a long camp and walk away with nothing because it wasn't an exp camp?)

Honestly a lot of problems with dungeons, itemization, social aspects ect have come from the "level crunch" and trying to jam all progression into just items. Items should be reserved as kind of like a gambling win, and levels or other kinds of "soft cap" exp should be the consistent gains. By mixing the two up, they've managed to make getting an item feel an awful lot like collecting a pay check, and that's really no good in my opinion. I wish they'd go back to allowing players to grind for soft cap type gains through experience, and make items kind of the providence of "exciting big gains". Diablo 3 seems to be kind of doing this with it's Paragon system, which I think is a good change, but it's perhaps too late in a game that's just been shitty for too long.

Wage_sl said:

and



I don't see how these two quotes fit together. If you are having such an easy time making friends and socially interacting, why are you sitting in LFG for hours watching TV?

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Rofl. It's because he would rather argue than even explore the possibility that he is wrong about anything. I am sure he is quite the person irl (lol). I completely understand that MMO's have a fairly higher density of socially remedial weirdos in them. Giving them the ability to not participate in the community while still succeeding in an Massively MULTIPLAYER Online Game means there will be a large portion of your server filled with people who do not contribute to the community. I personally want as many people as possible on the server contributing to the community, in positive ways or negative ways. That's what makes a community function.

Wahh wahh people shouldnt be forced to play YOUR way. That is like saying people should be playing a Massively Multiplayer Online Single Player Game. These games NEED community to survive. Don't you want the game to succeed, or are you more worried about your self-righteous crusade of letting people play the game solo, easy-mode, etc - Even if it runs the game into the ground?


Rather than having a matchmaking queue system. I rather enjoy'ed /lfg. /who all lfg (levelrange) would bring up a list of everyone lfg. Then you pick and choose what you want. But again, they are apparently "fixing" the roles needed for a group where you can put any five or six monkeys together and accomplish anything. I can't say that I am a fan of that, but it definately sounds like a fix to the gimps who thought it was hard to find a group in EQ, or even wow (more lol).

It's the same difference as between being a baby and an adult.

Babies get dropped into a playpen with a bunch of other babies and they all play together because they're too underdeveloped and stupid to care who they're actually surrounded by, and the quality of toys in the playpen don't really demand the highest cognitive brain functions to operate anyway, so what's the difference? Just throw any assortment of babies into a playpen, and they're going to have a fun time.

Adults, however, call specific people up on the phone and organize meetings/events with each other that have a clearly defined purpose. They work together to plan an outing that will be fun and exciting, with activities specifically chosen to provide entertainment. They don't get dropped into a playpen with a bunch of other random people and mindlessly crawl about looking for whatever shiny might make them giggle.

I don't know...I'd rather play as an adult who works to find friendships and like-minded players with which to play the game and develop mine and their characters, as opposed to just being dumped somewhere with a bunch of random people I don't know or care about.

dgrabs_sl said:

I don't know...I'd rather play as an adult who works to find friendships and like-minded players with which to play the game and develop mine and their characters, as opposed to just being dumped somewhere with a bunch of random people I don't know or care about.

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Yeah, it was about the time when dungeon finders started making you pre-made groups of people who are just there for the quick loot that I seemingly lost the ability to make any new friends in these games.

It's this instant everything mentality that is plaguing pretty much everything these days. Want to learn something? YouTube it, or Google it, and you're an expert! Everything is so instant and soulless these days, and no one cares about any kind of journey or even has time to meet anyone anymore. It's all about want now want now want now. GuildWars 2... Where do you want to be? Click and you're there! If you want experts in turning large and amazing worlds into tiny and lifeless point and click games look no further than the GW2 devs. People always cry about not being able to do exactly what they want exactly when they want, and then their ideas end up destroying the soul of these games, yet they will keep asking to have everything handed to them. However, I also know that many people are actually happy with games like that, and it makes me sad to see that it is a current trend to make everything quick and simple. I guess because it sells? You get that instant gratification and you can feel happier and more accomplished in your life? What about people who want to feel adventure again? Screw us right?

I don't know why I let myself get sucked into these things. Just answer me why TSW followed a lot of your philosophies and finding groups consisted of everyone sitting in Agartha asking for groups over and over and having to perform job interviews based on role, level of gear, knowledge of fights. You just want to say "WoW Bad!!" and saying how bad it is because it only has 8 million subs now and not 12 million.

People will only communicate to get through dungeons when they're learning it. Whether they're picked through an interview or an automated system. There's no reason to think that just because you put together a group they are going to be BFFs.

Only other major MMO I can remember launching recently without LFD is SWTOR. So i guess it would help with community since your player base will be small enough everyone will know each other

GW2 added a grouping feature like 2 months ago? A year after release.

Did not play the secret world, looked bad from the beginning. Lol job interviews? Sound's like poor game design existed to require that to ever happen, or maybe it was just filled with a surplus of shitty players that were used to easy mode everything and when facing a real challenge they failed. /shrug. It really doesn't matter. You are beyond help. Have fun doing whatever it is you do in mmo's.

So faced with 2 real world examples and just brushed off with "Durr shitty players". Quit trying to bring the shittiest eq concepts into every mmo.

They were shitty then and they're shitty now. Most people are just smarter then me and are tired of slamming their dicks in the door over and over when these stupid ideas are rehashed for the 1000th time

Mr Creed_sl said:

GW2 added a grouping feature like 2 months ago? A year after release.

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I don't even know. I lost all interest in GW2 two months after release?

Ambiturner_sl said:

Most people are just smarter then me

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Acceptance is the first step.


MMO's are so devolved into the Log in, queue up, play, log out routine that I wonder why we need a persistent world anymore. What's the point? Just make it a PVE League of Legends. That's the road we are on anyway.

Bellringer_sl said:

Acceptance is the first step.


MMO's are so devolved into the Log in, queue up, play, log out routine that I wonder why we need a persistent world anymore. What's the point? Just make it a PVE League of Legends. That's the road we are on anyway.

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And what did you do before? Log in, get on waiting list, play, log out. The only difference is the "list" is automated now and camps are not finite.

Bellringer_sl said:

Acceptance is the first step.


MMO's are so devolved into the Log in, queue up, play, log out routine that I wonder why we need a persistent world anymore. What's the point? Just make it a PVE League of Legends. That's the road we are on anyway.

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So instead of actually tackling the points you just go ad hominem and then waste the rest of your post.

LFD actually promotes community because you don't just group with the same people over and over. Your real issue when the player pool is so large you never group with the same people twice and that people don't talk to you enough when a dungeon eventually becomes faceroll. Neither of these are because of the dungeon finder. And your goal of making dungeons extremely difficult just promote the interview/spreadsheet shit when forming a group.

This is a good video on the matter.

cinge_sl said:

And what did you do before? Log in, get on waiting list, play, log out. The only difference is the "list" is automated now and camps are not finite.

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So you are saying we do not need a persistent world?


Edit: That's a great video. He's usually on point with his thought process.

Second Edit: Ambi- See #21934