So, if camps aren't finite, you aren't playing in a persistent world. You are in a matchmaking lobby. That is not an MMORPG. I wish they would be honest and just say they are going for a zoomed in dota2/LoL/minecraft. You design your armor at character creation, so no going for that rare breastplate. Your class comes with weapons so forget getting the satisfaction of finally getting the Exe Axe, Yak, Mistwalker, Fiery Avenger. Queue up for a match..erm..excuse me "group" and get teleported right to the group and dungeon. It is painfully obvious that is the intent of the game. They see the popularity of dota2/LoL and minecraft and are trying to get on the bandwagon with a bunch of bells and whistles. How do people not see this?
EQ Never
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Maybe we have it wrong boobies. Maybe the genre has always been intended to be massive multiplayer, online game rather than a Massive, mulitplayer, online game.
I'd like to see where you are getting that info. I am pretty sure I read that they will be including instanced content.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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Well they did include two options favoring automated matchmaking in the poll. If the world works like you describe (and they described at SOE live) then I see little point in such a matchmaking. So I guess things change on pre-alpha game design napkins.
Get in the "lets run Ferrott" queue. No two games of Dota2/LoL are the same either, but you still get matched up with your group and run the content. This time its just PvE, not PvP.
zzeris
The Real Benny Johnson
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Good video and while he rambles way too much, he gets the primary point across. Can they deliver difficult content with dungeon finder? And if not, why should I be forced to play a certain way because people need the carrot stuffed into their mouth to get enjoyment? I want difficult content and certain goals in a game should have a minimum threshold for true access. Minimum threshold shouldn't be I am able to breath or I know how my character moves and a can hit some random buttons. If they can design the early dungeons to teach people how to play and make these dungeons really accessible, why can't we expect more later in the game? Is there a point where denial of service is basically an excuse for people unwilling to learn how to play a simple game? And why should there be rewards for a lack of very basic commitment to learning the game? Does that not really benefit the gold farmers even more?
I don't want it to be so difficult that mistakes can't happen. It should tax my abilities especially later in the game. If I've dug into the bottom layer of the world and I meet demons,etc...shouldn't this be difficult? Especially in a game where skill is supposed to be a primary driving force? Where there are no easy level upgrades for bads to eventually just overpower instead of learn?
Lleauaric
Sparkletot Monger
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Dave: We're not opposed to having the occasional instance, but that's not really what our game is about. Our game is about the open world exploration and zoneless boundaries. What we want to do is set things up so that when we do use an instance, it's for a very specific reason, so occasionally we'll have something like that. But most of the world is not set up that way; instancing is just a tool that lets people have different experiences.
So yeah, what are you going to queue for? And you won't be able to "run the feerot". Things don't continuing respawn. A Orc camp leaves an area if there are too many players. They have been pretty clear it's not going to be possible to camp spawns.
Yep. That quote nearly guarantee's instanced dungeons. Idk why you would use a quote that says there will be instanced content to defend your statement that there will be no instanced content.
Cinge
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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The fact they even had a vote for it, means there is something to have a "matchmaker" for. Hell used car salesman specifically talks about dungeons in regards to matchmaking. If the dungeons were open world, there would be zero reason to have the vote or make that comment.
zzeris
The Real Benny Johnson
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I'm hoping for a mix of non-instanced dungeons as well as the instanced ones. I also want to see just how important world events like city founding really will be. Is it, 'everyone gets together for the really big dragon kill and maybe a few other mobs' or will it be much more? Will there be epic city defenses like mentioned in the novellas? Especially since Storybricks is pushing that kind of content? There's a lot more they can do with Storybricks than the usual 500 quests to max level, 8 major dungeons, 2 added raids(later) and then we will try to make an expansion pack. Only real world part is the quests if you want to call treadmill leveling with unread story quotes real content.
Miele
Lord Nagafen Raider
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GW2 is the perfect example of why a "community" sucks: in a game where any 5 warm bodies could form a group because there are no roles, people want speedruns only groups: 3 classes allowed. Even today in group listing there is usually a disclaimer or two: no rangers! zerk warriors only! and similar crap. Oh joyful people!
At this point I'll take an LFD every day and twice on sunday, at least I won't have to deal with asshats that think they know better, when in fact they just want to be carried. As I said before, if the content is tough, people will communicate and play as a group. If it's faceroll what you get out of a group is a "hello" and "thx!" at the end when you're lucky and I don't see why you'd want anything different seen that the game(s) in question are what they are.
I remember teaching people how to play back in EQ days: pick them up for a dungeon, give them a few pointers and let them learn the ins and outs of group playing, or raid playing. Now if somebody is not an MMO master right away, groupkicks and stuff are tossed around without a second thought *even* in faceroll content.
In shorts: (/oldfart ranting on) maybe it's because of the people, the instant gratification spoiled brats of today, kids that suck at socializing (/oldfart ranting off), or maybe nobody wants to play the old games anymore, just as we hardly did what our parents did in their youth (sports do not count!).
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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It was easier to get into doing new dungeons without lengthy explanation back then because most things played out very similar and you just did your job. Current generation dungeons have you turn widgets and DDR a specific sequence in order to debuff a boss and what not, all that merits more explanations and creates more newbie mistakes then moving from Guk to Seb did. The other reason is probably bigger server capacities and a general change of online gaming demographics.
With the proliferation of cross server LFD I guess we wont find out if smaller self-contained servers would improve that situation.
With the proliferation of cross server LFD I guess we wont find out if smaller self-contained servers would improve that situation.
People tend to forget that part, EQ dungeons were way way easier than a modern dungeon. Most of the challenge was that a failure was truly devastating.
EQ was also 14 years ago, go play p99 and you see the same shit you see in modern games, people don't group shit classes, people keep groups small to maximize their loot/xp etc. Should tell you that a lot of what happened in EQ was cause we were all newbs and not cause of game mechanics.
If you go back to the days of easier play with logistics being more important than individual skill you will see atleast some of that elitism go away again.
EQ was also 14 years ago, go play p99 and you see the same shit you see in modern games, people don't group shit classes, people keep groups small to maximize their loot/xp etc. Should tell you that a lot of what happened in EQ was cause we were all newbs and not cause of game mechanics.
If you go back to the days of easier play with logistics being more important than individual skill you will see atleast some of that elitism go away again.
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I resent that notion. Mobs in EQ were a lot stronger than your average dungeon trash is today, you could also easily wind up with many mobs in your group while modern dungeons have bite-sized mob groups that are linked to each other.
Yes, single pulling trash wasn't exactly difficult. But breaking into a fully spawned camp was a lot harder than clearing packs of three today. It's just that some skills made that easy as well (FD for example), but if you took that out of the equation, dungeons were tough.
Yes, single pulling trash wasn't exactly difficult. But breaking into a fully spawned camp was a lot harder than clearing packs of three today. It's just that some skills made that easy as well (FD for example), but if you took that out of the equation, dungeons were tough.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I took your post as written, 'some' skills and 'FD for example'. If you didnt actually mean that as just an example, you should edit the post.
I absolutely think dungeons currently are laughable gimp gimmicks where they might as well leave out the trash, and the bosses arent much harder. There's a tiny portion of challenge hidden in that cesspool, same as there was a challenge to a few dungeon aspects back in EQ but most was dead easy.
Friday
Lord Nagafen Raider
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What about the random pathing mob that you thought might be dead / another group had killed / or weren't even thinking about that wanders right into your already challenging pull.
And by the way it CH'd the mob you were about to kill that just gated back to its camp that just re-spawned.
Where's that level of dynamic play at in these modern games: that synergy between co-independent groups sharing a non-instanced dungeon?
How were instanced WoW dungeons harder when there was zero variation every time you stepped in? There were a couple of times I stepped into Seb and you know what? The first two mobs were both Clerics/Shamans and I couldnt single pull. Well...fuck me.
And they buffed everything aroud them with see invis (lol).
And by the way it CH'd the mob you were about to kill that just gated back to its camp that just re-spawned.
Where's that level of dynamic play at in these modern games: that synergy between co-independent groups sharing a non-instanced dungeon?
How were instanced WoW dungeons harder when there was zero variation every time you stepped in? There were a couple of times I stepped into Seb and you know what? The first two mobs were both Clerics/Shamans and I couldnt single pull. Well...fuck me.
And they buffed everything aroud them with see invis (lol).