EQ TLP 2024 Teek (Random loot) & Tormax (Traditional) #neckbeardnostalgia

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DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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Xevy said:
Bards are the best 6th group slot character, that is 0 question. They also have one of, if not the highest, skill cap.

That said, 1 bard in a raid is having magnitudes less impact than having 1 enchanter in a raid. And I don't want to hear about raid-wide mana song, because that shit ain't pumping during boss fights.

If you're looking to challenge yourself, bard is definitely a good choice. But at the higher end so is enchanter.
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Conversely, it's generally way more useful to have 3+ bards than 3+ chanters (except for specialty situations like Rathe or where good charm pets are easily used).

Though, I'm curious as to why mana song wouldn't be playing during boss fights? Every guild I've played in made sure it was playing during boss fights. The only time we didn't was during a pull.
 
Xevy

Xevy

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DickTrickle said:
Conversely, it's generally way more useful to have 3+ bards than 3+ chanters (except for specialty situations like Rathe or where good charm pets are easily used).

Though, I'm curious as to why mana song wouldn't be playing during boss fights? Every guild I've played in made sure it was playing during boss fights. The only time we didn't was during a pull.
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It generally is, but if there's only one bard you think his group is going to want him slotting that in his melody or just pumping pure ADPS for them? If there's multiple bards it certainly is played, usually by a "caster bard" who's designated to play it and other shit and usually sings AE resists for wizards/mages dipping in and out.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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Xevy said:
It generally is, but if there's only one bard you think his group is going to want him slotting that in his melody or just pumping pure ADPS for them? If there's multiple bards it certainly is played, usually by a "caster bard" who's designated to play it and other shit and usually sings AE resists for wizards/mages dipping in and out.
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I would think mana song would be more net beneficial than ADPS for a single group, but that's really only applicable if casters are getting low and that's not always the case. I would think a single bard would be playing AE resists (two songs if you need magic + elemental) so might as well sing mana song too. Though I'm not sure I've ever been on a raid with only one bard, especially in the box friendly TLP era.
 
Xevy

Xevy

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That's the things. Bards can do SO much shit, but they can only do so much at once. So you have bards in the tank group singing ac/resists as well as haste. Bards doing the same with melee groups. Then you have bards singing Rizlonas/resist debuffs etc for caster groups. One bard couldn't handle all that shit. One Enchanter however can slap clarity and haste on 72 people. They may want to blow their brains out, but they can do it. That's why I bring up the single bard in raid vs single enchanter as a weight for which I think is king of utility. But yeah, enchanters get way worse with the more you have. Bards do not up until 12 basically.
 
G

Greyman

Trakanon Raider
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Can live without an Enchanter at all in any raid that doesn't have a lot of mezzing required, eg Emp, Rathe council.

Otherwise can be replaced by clarity and haste potions for the first year of a TLP. Never enough bards, ideally you would like one per group.

AE mana song should be on the raid from whenever at least one bard in the raid gets a copy of Ancient Lcea
 
Lambourne

Lambourne

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Tried a bard main on the last TLP but I couldn't really get into it. Everything taking 3 sec to cast, having to restart songs all the time. Keeping two mobs mezzed on a bard is so much work compared to doing it on an enc.

I can see the appeal in versatility but I tapped out by level 40. Maybe it gets better later on?
 
G

Greyman

Trakanon Raider
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They are kinda boring for classic to velious unless you get to pull on raids, mostly just stand around playing resists with a drum, melee when you can to proc epic if you have it, or doing double mana macro in a group full of Clerics.

Luclin it gets a bit better when you start getting proper overhaste, PoP you become pretty much the best puller in game. TSS you become a top tier DPS.

Somewhere around Omens of War you surpass Enchanters in most situations for desirability/usefullness.
 
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DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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Lambourne said:
Tried a bard main on the last TLP but I couldn't really get into it. Everything taking 3 sec to cast, having to restart songs all the time. Keeping two mobs mezzed on a bard is so much work compared to doing it on an enc.

I can see the appeal in versatility but I tapped out by level 40. Maybe it gets better later on?
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You knew about /melody, right? I think that took away 90% of the tedium. It is annoying when you get interrupted. Mezzing definitely blows but you're not going to be mezzing in most situations; that's really not optimal because your mezzes are lower level and that means you're not singing other songs either.

It's easy to be a lazy to moderately non-lazy bard and having groups want you all the time so there's that.
 
Lambourne

Lambourne

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DickTrickle said:
You knew about /melody, right? I think that took away 90% of the tedium. It is annoying when you get interrupted. Mezzing definitely blows but you're not going to be mezzing in most situations; that's really not optimal because your mezzes are lower level and that means you're not singing other songs either.

It's easy to be a lazy to moderately non-lazy bard and having groups want you all the time so there's that.
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Yea I used melody, I can't even imagine how people played one before that. Had a bunch of macros for solo travel, group buffs etc. It's mostly the constant switching, interrupting and recasting that's annoying to me. Lot of work just to do your basic job. The massive aggro on inc if you forget to turn songs off during the pull sucked too, maybe they fixed that by now.

it's a great class and I love having one in my group but I don't think the playstyle is for me.
 
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yerm

yerm

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Guilds that have their bards sing adps for the 19th monk, to the point that casters and healers aren't even getting the raidwide mana song, are generally never seeing SOF. You can debate this with me if you want and maybe find some rare exception, but in general, I'm right. This kind of hyper obsession with tanks and melee to the point of ignorance of the bigger picture and/or sociopathic need to top charts and not let your bard share at all? It always ends with guilds that are literally 3/4+ tanks and melee by the end of the 70s, often coming to these forums to talk about how they always need clerics and would totally love more wizards...

It's also quite normal and you should usually expect it in any random tlp guild you join. BYOB (bring your own bard) if you want shit.
 
Rajaah

Rajaah

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Evernothing said:
I'm waiting for that Faceless vs. Vicious drama.

Remember the good old days?
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Maybe we'll get Atabishi teaming up with Vicious to take on Faceless. Then Zaide and Sieger have to go out to the jungles of Cambodia to find their old foe AoS and try to broker an alliance. Echoes of Elysium pulls up and no one knows which side they're on, like the Cardassians in Deep Space Nine.
 
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Rajaah

Rajaah

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TheRealmOnline said:
I have played just about all classes from classic to PoP as solo leveling but weekly raider. Bard is by far the best solo class in the hands of someone putting forth the effort and it is not even close. Obviously, once they get Mana tick gear in Luclin and PoP Charm they are godly, but even before that, you can do much more solo on a bard than any other class. Necro is a close 2nd though. I Imagine shaman is up there as well with the power of Slow, but I never tried a shaman in the early stages due to buff cancer. I'd rip my eyes out with the spam requests during raids.

Lull crawling through dungeons, Dirge-ing, Mez juggling, Charm swarm kiting, Selo speed, clickies while moving, slow, snares ... you name it.

My favorite duo is a Bard with a Mage box. Pet assist with Mage, malo charm targets, CoTH for stuff later on, and the secret sauce of having mage pet heal in combat while a mob is mezzed by bard. Lets you safely over tank targets with mage pet in the early era before Bards get their high level charms.
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Bard is certainly one of the most skill-dependent classes though. Yeah you can do all of that if you're "on" all the time. There's no such thing as lazily soloing with a Bard though like you can with a Necro or Mage. That said, the craziest, most off the wall things I've ever pulled off in EQ were as a bard. A lot of which admittedly a chanter can also do, with less HP and a lot more issues running for the hills if I mess it up.

I tend to avoid picking bards for server launch statics because I'm usually pulling and tanking (or running enchanter). Can't rely on bards to turn songs off on a difficult pull and it just adds one more element of stress/distraction when I'm bringing things in.

The difference between an S tier bard and a lazy one is the biggest gulf of any single class, no doubt.
 
yerm

yerm

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Rajaah said:
Bard is certainly one of the most skill-dependent classes though. Yeah you can do all of that if you're "on" all the time. There's no such thing as lazily soloing with a Bard though like you can with a Necro or Mage. That said, the craziest, most off the wall things I've ever pulled off in EQ were as a bard. A lot of which admittedly a chanter can also do, with less HP and a lot more issues running for the hills if I mess it up.

I tend to avoid picking bards for server launch statics because I'm usually pulling and tanking (or running enchanter). Can't rely on bards to turn songs off on a difficult pull and it just adds one more element of stress/distraction when I'm bringing things in.

The difference between an S tier bard and a lazy one is the biggest gulf of any single class, no doubt.
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Make hotkeys to buffblock bard songs. Make a matching hotkey to unblock. Make this for every song you are worried about.

One of the most infuriating things to deal with at raids is having some autistic puller scream about manasong hitting him while he is trying to pull. Dude, you are a fucking monk, why is that shit a problem for you? I admit in a 6man this is a reasonable problem, but its still a good idea if you plan to pull to have song blocks ready.

From an efficiency standpoint, making an entire group and/or raid lose songs because you didnt make a hotkey makes you a suboptimal puller!
 
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R

Razzes

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DickTrickle said:
I would think mana song would be more net beneficial than ADPS for a single group, but that's really only applicable if casters are getting low and that's not always the case. I would think a single bard would be playing AE resists (two songs if you need magic + elemental) so might as well sing mana song too. Though I'm not sure I've ever been on a raid with only one bard, especially in the box friendly TLP era.
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Yea mana song is generally more important than buffing a single group. You can just run chorus mana+ chorus resist+ warsong+rizlona, 4 songs is fine. Probably harmony of sounds instead of warsong if its the only bard, or can melody 5 songs.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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When I only played a single character the only character I ever really played was a bard before melody.

I don't do drugs, so...

Yep, checks out.
 
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X

Xeris

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Razzes said:
They're terrible against the hardest bosses of time TZ/VZ who have aggro debuff. They are also not the best for overall trash clear if the pace is fast since they go oom (ex: p1-p3 clear). They also don't do that well on quarm splits (quarm has super high resists).
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I've been topping almost every single potime parse for 1.5 years on a wizard. Wizards are absolutely the best. I'm almost positive I'd raided potime more than anyone considering I've raided at least once per week, if not 2-3x per week since 2018, so I've seen good/bad/and everything in between in terms of player ability. Wizards should win an overall parse. You just pointed out the 3 bosses they don't do great against; but ur going to be SO FAR ahead on trash it won't matter.
 
R

Razzes

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Xeris said:
I've been topping almost every single potime parse for 1.5 years on a wizard. Wizards are absolutely the best. I'm almost positive I'd raided potime more than anyone considering I've raided at least once per week, if not 2-3x per week since 2018, so I've seen good/bad/and everything in between in terms of player ability. Wizards should win an overall parse. You just pointed out the 3 bosses they don't do great against; but ur going to be SO FAR ahead on trash it won't matter.
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Those are the 3 most important bosses though.
Quarm is the first thing u split with EP gear. TZ/VZ are the next bottleneck, then u can split all of time. But I agree overall that wizard can do great, they are just a tad too unreliable depending on player skill and luck/raid management. You re gonna need a bard to not get mana drain on TT/ saryrn for example. And wizard often die on tanks deaths etc cause they have to keep their aggro high for optimal dps. And the consequences of dying are even worse for a mana class like wizard
 
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