Rajaah
Honorable Member
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I wish I could brag about how great I am at EQ. I'm only varying degrees of mediocre, depending on how bad my ADHD is
EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)
- Thread starter Zaide
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
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I wish I could brag about how great I am at EQ. I'm only varying degrees of mediocre, depending on how bad my ADHD is
SorrowsEnd
Trakanon Raider
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Last weekend I went on a Sky raid ( I hate sky) for a small gdkp raid and it was actually a nice enjoyable clear. We didn't dick around farming birds or sisters or any of that crap just a clean sweep. Delightful.
During the week we did a set of the DZ kunark raids. Remembered why I just hate Gorenaire and all the melee that aren't in my own group spam messaging my boxes for dispells they will never receive. Pretty fun raids, normally kunark is meh.
After raids the one night we spawned an extra pick of swamp and got 3 medallions out of it. I looted the 3rd one two minutes before the zone closed. Went over to Kaesora after with the deputies and managed to grab the next pop out of pure luck. Finished the key up on Saturday. I swore I'd never do that stupid key quest and here we are.
Saturday night went to a VP dz raid and it was a nice smooth clear. Random loot is hilarious. I'm quite pleased with the Diablo style loot explosions and hunting through the loot lists to see if anything if worthwhile.
Helped a truckload of people on their epic fights during the week. Had a really amusing race against the golden rapiers who wanted to contest some dude trying to complete his epic. I'm now working on finishing up my epic on my shadowknight of all things.
Some of you guys take this open world spawn crap to a level that is concerning. It is a fun distraction to race to stuff here and there. Giving up your Saturday to sit in a zone waiting on a spawn? Hard pass. I can see having a tracker waiting for a specific spawn...but a mobilized raid? Yikes.
A large portion of this population will vanish around pop. The remains usually end up guilded together eventually. Stop being shitty to each other you stupid broken people.
During the week we did a set of the DZ kunark raids. Remembered why I just hate Gorenaire and all the melee that aren't in my own group spam messaging my boxes for dispells they will never receive. Pretty fun raids, normally kunark is meh.
After raids the one night we spawned an extra pick of swamp and got 3 medallions out of it. I looted the 3rd one two minutes before the zone closed. Went over to Kaesora after with the deputies and managed to grab the next pop out of pure luck. Finished the key up on Saturday. I swore I'd never do that stupid key quest and here we are.
Saturday night went to a VP dz raid and it was a nice smooth clear. Random loot is hilarious. I'm quite pleased with the Diablo style loot explosions and hunting through the loot lists to see if anything if worthwhile.
Helped a truckload of people on their epic fights during the week. Had a really amusing race against the golden rapiers who wanted to contest some dude trying to complete his epic. I'm now working on finishing up my epic on my shadowknight of all things.
Some of you guys take this open world spawn crap to a level that is concerning. It is a fun distraction to race to stuff here and there. Giving up your Saturday to sit in a zone waiting on a spawn? Hard pass. I can see having a tracker waiting for a specific spawn...but a mobilized raid? Yikes.
A large portion of this population will vanish around pop. The remains usually end up guilded together eventually. Stop being shitty to each other you stupid broken people.
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Sieger
Trakanon Raider
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Note that wall of text is from the same guy who thinks Aradune is still a high pop server despite repeated evidence to the contrary. I also believe he was a joke on Mangler and dominated Aradune a server with 0 competition. I may be a back in my day kinda guy Bishi, but I had a day. You never have. Other than maybe that day Three Navy SEALs and a few of their Green Beret buddies made the biggest mistake of their lives and threw hands with you in Socal.
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I disagree. Having been with both TL on RF and AoS on Phinny i can say the competition on Phinny was both more fun and more competitive. The truth is on non-AOC any second or 3rd place guild just gives up. On AOC TLPs those second and third place guilds get a real shot at the launch of every expansion. Just because after Phinny every TLP just has a zergfest top guild with 400+ members doesn't really change the fact that AOCs are better for health competition.
On top of that non-aoc TLPs just lead to toxic Autisms fights of who can cheat better.
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Oh god, you take so much offense to me calling your post an opinion that you resort to personal attacks. Rofl you know what they say....
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Sieger
Trakanon Raider
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I'm certainly not saying that people don't have fun on TLPs. That was never the point I was making. The larger point I was making is OW mostly has no real meaning in terms of the game itself, it's literally just something to do because you're bored. I'm saying the consequences for guilds like <Dead Halfling Society> on Lockjaw not being in the Server #1 guild were far, far higher than on any of these AOC guilds, it meant they literally didn't get to touch an elemental plane for 4 months. There's nothing like that in modern TLP. It's like comparing a real boxing match to the staged one between Roy Jones Jr and Tyson, in a real fight there are consequences for losing. That doesn't mean the fake fight can't be fun, and it certainly made Tyson and Jones a lot of money.
I would also say you are 100% wrong that on an AOC server "no 2nd or 3rd place guild gives up." I think that is wrong on two levels. One it assumes the 2nd and 3rd place guilds are even concerned about things like server firsts and open world kills. On most of these servers people that actually care about server firsts have all accumulated to one single guild. The second place guild might snag OW as they see chances come up, but it is unlikely to be their raison d'etre the way it is for the top guild. I actually understand some of the reason guild leaders like to pretend their competition is coming for them, it's a psychology play. Zaide made the claim near the end of Velious on Agnarr that Trucidation was "leveling box crews of wizards to snipe server first Emperor." So then we had like 20 Wizards leveled. Of course in real life Trucidation was not leveling any wizards at all, but we ended up getting a bunch of box wizards leveled that did help us kill Emperor because we mostly had no bane weapons. Guild leaders in the moment of course have to maintain the illusion of real challenge, because otherwise people get bored. Here on the sidelines in FOH we don't have to pretend illusions are reality though.
Like Phinny is a prime example. I literally talked with Dima about Phinny right before Selo launched, his exact words were "I never cared about open world, it was just something to keep people distracted with while we got through the early eras." Dima started OGC with an actual goal to reach live, I assume in part because he had come very close with Citizen on Fippy, but the server pop of Fippy became non-viable in CotF around the time Phinny launched. Now one thing different from a lot of other AOC TLPs is OGC clearly did care about server firsts, and actually got server first clear of Luclin and then much later Solteris (AoS disbanded the second they lost the race to beat Solteris.)
On Agnarr we had DPS races all the time, but I don't think any of us ever characterized it as the 2nd or 3rd guild trying to "dethrone us." Like Trucidation and Zurdula had no interest in doing the time investment required to do things like a fast rush to finish VP keying or VT keying. But would they contest open world when it fell in times they could do so? Yes, absolutely.
Sieger
Trakanon Raider
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I mean I don't disagree that everything I said was subjective opinion. And I've honestly tried to give you credit in the past for the things you have done, but then you've spent like 2 months posting crazy nonsense on these forums that most people know isn't true, and reduced yourself to a meme. I think you're a honestly a good dude outside of the world of Forumquest, but inside the world of Forumquest you seem unhinged.
Cukernaut
Sharpie Markers Aren't Pens
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I am one of the few people on here I think that was on Phinny with AOS and on Agnarr with Faceless. Both were fun, Phinny was a different animal and was more competitive - faceless had agnarr too locked down for anyone else to breathe on there.
That comment I made about selos to you sieger you just said yourself. I think you drank the dima juice and your own views have shifted. not a knock just facts. i saw this and this caused some frustration for me on selos -- like when we didnt funnel gear during the launch "not competition"-- i think there was a split attitude in Faceless that wasnt fully hashed out from the beginning -- i understand why you took the perspective you did though because i think it promotes the most guild stability and i think youve done an excellent job at that so i can respect it. i know why you did it too -- it was the formula for success on selos long term
i still had a blast on selos launch though regardless.
in atabishis defense he has different goals and definitions and i did play launch with them -- i brought my same static that I always did, and other than the dragon glitches being massively gay and the server itself being gay from the server launch issues we definitely had some competition there and he did go hard in the paint.
cant speak to recently as i havent played.
Sieger
Trakanon Raider
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I mean dude I'm going to talk a little bit of hard truth to you. For one, we did go hard to try to win Luclin. We also did funnel loot, not actually sure why you don't remember that. But we specifically funneled loot to tanks and some healers, and we cleared out the Bazaar multiple times with guild funds to get gear onto specific people. We didn't funnel 100% of all loot, because not all the loot that dropped was going to make a key difference. We made two big mistakes on Luclin launch (and frankly the other side also massively cheated, but I'll focus on my mistakes), one was we did not want to anoint 40 people pre-launch to get keys. We wanted to base it on activity during the launch, because I did not want to alienate the 200+ people who had never heard of or been in a Faceless guild before that server that we'd recruited. It was a concern for the long term health of our guild, and it did set us up worse for the race to AHR. The other big mistake frankly involves you very directly.
At the key moment of Selo, when we were actively racing against Amtrak in parallel to finish Vex Thal we had a dude in our raid who had a class (Necro) and ability (we gave him a mount) to do the VT skips--which we did NOT know. These skips were developed on Coirnav (they didn't exist before hand because activated Warders did NOT exist on Phinny or Agnarr), and none of our core officer corps knew them. None of us had done VT since Agnarr. You spent time on test practicing them and said you had them down. When the actual time to do the skips came, your wife jerked your leash and you had to bail out of the raid, literally 30 minutes in to our first VT. So instead of skipping bosses we now had to fucking clear VT with 40 people with no gear, of course we lost. You had some good excuses, you had a new born and an angry wife. And because I had a ton of empathy for that I haven't said peep about it for almost 3 years, but here we are now because you probably should have been quiet about "your frustrations." Like the reality is one of the most intense, competitive moments in EQ history involved you, and your bitch ass bounced. End of story. The reasons don't matter.
I've always liked you cuk, i still do. Because I'm someone who recognizes EQ isn't every fucking thing, I'm glad you bailed on us to deal with your wife and kid, that is far more important. But I do have a bit of Trump in me in that I'm fat, stupid and I hit back when people hit at me--and to complain about your frustrations for selo launch, no sir. You are excluded that privilege.
At the key moment of Selo, when we were actively racing against Amtrak in parallel to finish Vex Thal we had a dude in our raid who had a class (Necro) and ability (we gave him a mount) to do the VT skips--which we did NOT know. These skips were developed on Coirnav (they didn't exist before hand because activated Warders did NOT exist on Phinny or Agnarr), and none of our core officer corps knew them. None of us had done VT since Agnarr. You spent time on test practicing them and said you had them down. When the actual time to do the skips came, your wife jerked your leash and you had to bail out of the raid, literally 30 minutes in to our first VT. So instead of skipping bosses we now had to fucking clear VT with 40 people with no gear, of course we lost. You had some good excuses, you had a new born and an angry wife. And because I had a ton of empathy for that I haven't said peep about it for almost 3 years, but here we are now because you probably should have been quiet about "your frustrations." Like the reality is one of the most intense, competitive moments in EQ history involved you, and your bitch ass bounced. End of story. The reasons don't matter.
I've always liked you cuk, i still do. Because I'm someone who recognizes EQ isn't every fucking thing, I'm glad you bailed on us to deal with your wife and kid, that is far more important. But I do have a bit of Trump in me in that I'm fat, stupid and I hit back when people hit at me--and to complain about your frustrations for selo launch, no sir. You are excluded that privilege.
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If you find meaning in loot sure or killing trivial raid content sure. If you find meaning in fun i strongly disagree with what you're saying
Sieger
Trakanon Raider
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My point was more in regards to guild progression. I'm saying unlike on old era TLPs, there is no meaningful way where open world raiding can meaningfully block another guild's progression. In Kunark / Luclin / PoP you can sorta slow another guild down in OW, but only fairly moderately. Like I said, I'm not at all saying "no one can have fun doing open world nonsense." I'm just trying to stress the point this isn't Formula 1 dudes, this is a nonsense niche MMO where the stakes are low. BTW like I literally was part of socking Goats in Txevu for hours on end during GoD in Selo purely because we enjoyed it. I've literally been doing Plane of Sky like daily with a small krono crew on Mischief, I'm not living what I preach. But I don't think I'd objectively argue my autism is something people should point to as a positive thing.
Rajaah
Honorable Member
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Yeah, there was definitely a split attitude in Faceless Conquest. Some of leadership wanted to go at it with Amtrak, some of leadership didn't.
A lot of the members, maybe even most of them, wanted to compete. I did, I think you did, etc. So we ended up in this weird fugue-state where the members were competing but the guild wasn't going all-in, while Amtrak definitely was. Selo would have been more competitive if the directives had been clear from the get-go and people weren't confused about whether we were competing or not. A lot of the FC membership was there primarily to compete, and they likely would have had fewer members if they clearly stated that they weren't competing from the get-go. Plus the server in general would have been less-interesting under those circumstances. Goal-hedging also dulled the embarassment of losing the initial race. So maybe there were other reasons for FC's stated mission going back-and-forth throughout the launch, I don't know.
I get that Sieger and Zaide had different ideas and I also get where both of them were coming from, and that Sieger was pursuing more of a Dima-style ideology. Not being critical of any of the above people, they're all solid leaders to me. However I do think there are takeaways from Selo about the importance of having focused and clear goals as a guild. Either "our goal is to cede open world, be drama-free, and make it to live" or "our goal is to embrace drama and kick the other guild in the teeth".
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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If you were really serious, you would have had someone else trained up to do the skips from cuke. Relying on exactly one person to facilitate a fast finish is too much of a failure point.
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Sieger
Trakanon Raider
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Nah, I mean it could just be it was a mistake like I said it was. Mistakes don't mean you weren't serious, it means you fucked up. Like I said I made two big mistakes with that launch. In truth we should have used Artemesa who the next time in VT did all the skips perfectly. Obviously if I had it to do over again I'd do it over again differently. But in my defense someone who had spent years virtually rubbing AoS knob and talking about how he's the wildest big dick wild man in TLP cucking out literally at the exact worse time because his wife got mad, was not something I thought would occur.
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Cupie12
Send Tits Pls
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to be fair he was the only one who even tried to stop us on aten. the rest just watched us win from the zonein
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Rajaah
Honorable Member
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I noticed the sky differences with EverQuest in content a bit after when Asheron's Call 1 did that huge Herald event. Was just this huge devil in the sky box (found a shitty picture to attach) and I thought it was the coolest thing ever at that age. Too bad the first time I saw it was after I logged in and fell to my death cause the town I was buying reagents from was nuked while I was logged off. I mean, looking at it today - its absolute horrible graphics, but hell... we all didnt have high expectations in that era.
I remember Asheron's Call. I never played it, but it was my backup plan when I was considering quitting EQ early-on. Most of the things I disliked about EQ circa 2000 were things that AC didn't have. So for a while there I was spending some time reading up on AC in preparation for switching games. Then Kunark came out, friends were having fun with it, and I found a hand-drawn map website (EQAtlas IIRC?) that made EQ a lot less tedious to navigate, and just kinda forgot about AC.
From what I can tell, AC might have been pretty successful in the pre-WoW market if it weren't for EQ. That and DAoC would have probably been the two leading 3D MMOs of that era.
Sieger
Trakanon Raider
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I think I've been pretty honest about this--and I think it's either something I've mentioned a number of times with my guild, and maybe haven't posted here (but I think I've posted it on here before), I was serious about competing for Luclin, but after that my only goal was to reach live. My perspective was from several prior TLPs, where expansion launches are incredibly grueling, time consuming, social life killing, spouse enraging, etc things. But they happen every 12 weeks so you get em done. My hypothesis was that if we attempted to do regular TLP style launches not every 12 weeks but every month we would implode. Amtrak did exactly that, and what happened? They did implode in like month 7 or something. BTW a lot of those dudes joined us and are my good friends these days, I respect Amtrak made up up thru DoDH raiding like that, but I was 0.0% surprised they didn't keep going. We were told one of the major reasons they stopped is Drill called out the officers and was like "who is going to step up to lead raids this week" and no one did. I'm not shocked though, it's hard to keep energy to run a guild like that with monthly unlocks and never letting off the gas.
If Selo had been Mangler with regular unlocks I would have been 100% on board with hardcore, mega crazed launches every single expansion. But I also likely would not have made a guild there, and would have just been a regular raider. After Agnarr I went back to Lockjaw to do later era TLP, and I hit a point where I decided I was never making a TLP guild again unless there was something really unique about it. Selo one month unlocks was that unique opportunity, and I specifically decided not to treat it like a regular TLP.
Now what I have 100% copped to elsewhere if I haven't mentioned it here before, is to a very big degree I used a lot of the people we recruited on Selo. I 100% knew that the way we promoted the guild was going to make us the big zerg, and I knew a lot of those people would really just want to autist batphone and contest shit for a few months. But I also knew most of those people would leave. I wasn't building my guild for you, but I wanted you in the house. Why? Because I knew some % of you, but not what %, would convert to long term raiders. I had no way to know who would before hand or how many, so I just wanted as many of you as possible. It really didn't matter to me that I'd be delivering a guild you didn't like, because I didn't make the guild for you. Dick move? I dunno, I think I have a right to make a guild how I see fit, running a guild is work and bullshit, and the person running it gets to make these decisions. Selo FC was not an officer council guild, it was a dictatorship. Now the sort of lawyeresque thing I did try to do, if you go back and look at my recruiting posts, I never explicitly say "we are going to compete for every server first" in fact my post focuses heavily on longevity and past Faceless accomplishments. Did we hype up the Amtrak shit early on? Absolutely, and I fully admit that gave a lot of people a (deliberately) deceptive impression of our long term goals. To which I respond--read the fine print! On some level for someone like you, it probably felt shitty. My defense is I built a guild for people who wanted to do every expansion, and I delivered on that. I don't know that many other people have ever done that in EQ aside from Dima. Dima did it in a different way than I did, but he was on a different ruleset than I was on.
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