EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)

Regime said:

holy fuck Keon is still spamming? LMAO
He’s had that same copy pasta since Phinny.

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I wasted weeks of my life raiding with retards and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt.

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Sieger said:

tfw you're talking about stuff we already talked about.

Yes, we knew who our first 40 was going up to Emp. No, they weren't done with shards--neither were Amtrak's first 40 (this was already covered in the thread.) Amtrak started shard keying earlier because they knew before the server launched who their first 40 were, we deliberately did not pick a first 40 pre-launch, because we didn't want to just "award" keys to 40 people based on us knowing them previously, we wanted to give people who were new to the guild and who were sinking hundreds of hours into the launch to have a competitive change of earning a spot.

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yerm said:

Fuck these kid servers and the people trying to rerail, let's keep talking Selo. I'mma write more in this post than GRRM has in 2 years.

A lot of people get into a mindset that because something works it must have been the right decision or even the best decision when in reality sometimes you can suck out, sometimes you were always going to pass regardless, etc. Having read over Gris' planning stuff I would like to say with relative confidence that had you guys not touched emp and Amtrak had stuck to his planned timetable, we would have gotten VT in the same time (maybe faster!) and lost nothing. Your emp kill was so brutally well timed that we actually HAD to return fire or else the guild was going to literally implode. When we did our emp, we actually wiped on the first attempt with the healers out of mana and him not anywhere close to down. I had the strange advantage of being a cleric who'd played a lot of necro, so I talked to shubarb (basically the ASMR-voiced mediator / voice of reason at the time and also mostly running the cleric shit) and he talked to the raid, and we got mind wracks set up and everyone to take a deep breath and relax and then we crushed it convincingly the second round. You take shubarb out of that picture - he was one of the mabbu crew coming in - and amtrak probably disbands within a week. You have other tiny factors like rumz who tried to leave the guild and got told it was poor showing, so he agreed that the sportsman thing to do is stick it out until someone kills aten and then he goes. Very professional about it especially having read officer chat. That dude and his bloodfrenzy+shards bounce instead of being classy, and it may not mean death, but it sure fucks us! I honest to god think you guys killing emp was the right call. You stabbed us when we were at our weakest and it almost killed us.

As far as the preset 40 thing there's good and bad to it. Again, it worked, so it looks like the right move. In reality it was disgusting internally and a source for all kinds of issues. After talking about it internally later I think the best solution would have been a hybrid setup where you have SOME preset groups, maybe 18 people covering the core needs, and leave the other half open to merit so people who bust their asses the hardest can get in. This lets you have mouths to feed as you're leveling so shards don't go to waste while you work out who gets the later ones. Another option had numbers been higher, so probably applicable more to a guild like yours, is to spread some of the racers among groups so that people feel more invested, since "their" cleric or whatever is going in, and the funneling feels less tyrannical. The outcome in amtrak was that many of our best players burned hard because they felt left out and never recovered from it. If I'm not mistaken, me and krysanth were the only non-racers who were super hardcore and actually made it past pop. Everyone else was either more casual at launch or was a racer (racer = annointed to go into vt, if that wasn't clear). So, you say you avoided it because you were worried about the drawbacks, and I'm saying that amtrak ate those drawbacks hard.

As for cheating... I'm actually worried I'm about to sound like our worst newest poster. Both sides cheated and played dirty, amtrak just had a couple people play dirtier. After about a week the numbers advantage became so heavy in your favor that I'd actually argue, whether you believe it or not, that you had more total griefers than we did. We just had a couple guys active hacking and a pair of dudes (siirx and skykam) who were like professional griefers who could do more damage than any 3 other people combined. Believe it or not, there was actually a lot of internal backlash against active hacking and calls to put that shit away. Guys like astral you best believe didn't want a dirty win or an asterisk by their name. He'd play dirty for sure but fuck right off with mq2 plugins. So what was actually hitting you was only a tiny set of people (maybe as low as 2 after the first couple days) but doing it so egregiously that it stood out, versus amtrak basically CONSTANTLY feeling pressured to get trained or spawnsniped. It's funny you mention the cleric epic thing - that was one people were told NOT to do for us too, possibly because they didn't want people getting banned, but it actually crossed the line you may not believe many amtrak leaders actually did have. One of the loud voices for don't be a shitass was toxn, and he was probably behind EVERY amtrak cleric epic at least in part pre-aten. I can't even imagine what kind of world of shit you guys would have summoned had you stolen a triggered epic quest npc from him - I think it would be ACTUALLY the backfiring mess that bishi claims emp was. He was one of the loudest officer voices behind the scenes for don't turn things into pre-phinny hack bs.

It's weird, but I think amtrak doesn't really get credit that it deserves in some respects, and gets praised for blind luck in others. I think too many people don't appreciate the work that goes into something like that and especially given selo pacing that it's way more stressful than normal without good breaks. People shit on grisvok without realizing that the guy put in SO much work behind the scenes that nobody outside officerhood saw, and would regularly do private coordinating of help for people. I'd get tells out of blue asking me if soandso other cleric needed x still and if the answer was no I'd often see giraffe or whichever char wasn't banned at the time helping them. I'm confident it was going on for all classes. Instead, he gets the rep as this hacking menace who dropped N bombs, when he was actually a fantastic organizer who genuinely carried about his crew (fuck everyone else, sure...) and wanted to help them out. I've been trying personally to back off on mabbu hate given how much shit people talk and often at random; that was me too for a while, and I feel bad about having his name so often shitting out of my mouth. I'm not saying that mabbu's dox or grisvok's racism were fine, they weren't at all, just maybe a lot of the hate is covering over some good stuff about those guys underneath.

If they ever drop a double loot instead of half lockout selo 2.0 I'm probably there. That server was TOO good.

Anyway, FFXIV and Faceless are probably semi chubbed and want their thread back...

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Morrow said:

Can someone TLDR the last 6 pages of drama. I can't get through everyone's novels.

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SorrowsEnd said:

Amtrak was around in the beginning? The game has had 27 expansions? They were gone by what, level 70 content? There was still over a year of Selo left. That server was about the long game. Surviving the server.

We keep harping about racing over RMT trash for a server launch? Zzzzzzzzzz. Same as the racing over garbage on Mischief now zzzzzzz.

I'm the odd one out. I never gave a fuck about what other guilds do in these games. Enjoy the time you spend online. If you want to compete against people go play sports or maybe try a fps game. This old elf simulator really isn't it.

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yerm said:

Fuck these kid servers and the people trying to rerail, let's keep talking Selo. I'mma write more in this post than GRRM has in 2 years.

A lot of people get into a mindset that because something works it must have been the right decision or even the best decision when in reality sometimes you can suck out, sometimes you were always going to pass regardless, etc. Having read over Gris' planning stuff I would like to say with relative confidence that had you guys not touched emp and Amtrak had stuck to his planned timetable, we would have gotten VT in the same time (maybe faster!) and lost nothing. Your emp kill was so brutally well timed that we actually HAD to return fire or else the guild was going to literally implode. When we did our emp, we actually wiped on the first attempt with the healers out of mana and him not anywhere close to down. I had the strange advantage of being a cleric who'd played a lot of necro, so I talked to shubarb (basically the ASMR-voiced mediator / voice of reason at the time and also mostly running the cleric shit) and he talked to the raid, and we got mind wracks set up and everyone to take a deep breath and relax and then we crushed it convincingly the second round. You take shubarb out of that picture - he was one of the mabbu crew coming in - and amtrak probably disbands within a week. You have other tiny factors like rumz who tried to leave the guild and got told it was poor showing, so he agreed that the sportsman thing to do is stick it out until someone kills aten and then he goes. Very professional about it especially having read officer chat. That dude and his bloodfrenzy+shards bounce instead of being classy, and it may not mean death, but it sure fucks us! I honest to god think you guys killing emp was the right call. You stabbed us when we were at our weakest and it almost killed us.

As far as the preset 40 thing there's good and bad to it. Again, it worked, so it looks like the right move. In reality it was disgusting internally and a source for all kinds of issues. After talking about it internally later I think the best solution would have been a hybrid setup where you have SOME preset groups, maybe 18 people covering the core needs, and leave the other half open to merit so people who bust their asses the hardest can get in. This lets you have mouths to feed as you're leveling so shards don't go to waste while you work out who gets the later ones. Another option had numbers been higher, so probably applicable more to a guild like yours, is to spread some of the racers among groups so that people feel more invested, since "their" cleric or whatever is going in, and the funneling feels less tyrannical. The outcome in amtrak was that many of our best players burned hard because they felt left out and never recovered from it. If I'm not mistaken, me and krysanth were the only non-racers who were super hardcore and actually made it past pop. Everyone else was either more casual at launch or was a racer (racer = annointed to go into vt, if that wasn't clear). So, you say you avoided it because you were worried about the drawbacks, and I'm saying that amtrak ate those drawbacks hard.

As for cheating... I'm actually worried I'm about to sound like our worst newest poster. Both sides cheated and played dirty, amtrak just had a couple people play dirtier. After about a week the numbers advantage became so heavy in your favor that I'd actually argue, whether you believe it or not, that you had more total griefers than we did. We just had a couple guys active hacking and a pair of dudes (siirx and skykam) who were like professional griefers who could do more damage than any 3 other people combined. Believe it or not, there was actually a lot of internal backlash against active hacking and calls to put that shit away. Guys like astral you best believe didn't want a dirty win or an asterisk by their name. He'd play dirty for sure but fuck right off with mq2 plugins. So what was actually hitting you was only a tiny set of people (maybe as low as 2 after the first couple days) but doing it so egregiously that it stood out, versus amtrak basically CONSTANTLY feeling pressured to get trained or spawnsniped. It's funny you mention the cleric epic thing - that was one people were told NOT to do for us too, possibly because they didn't want people getting banned, but it actually crossed the line you may not believe many amtrak leaders actually did have. One of the loud voices for don't be a shitass was toxn, and he was probably behind EVERY amtrak cleric epic at least in part pre-aten. I can't even imagine what kind of world of shit you guys would have summoned had you stolen a triggered epic quest npc from him - I think it would be ACTUALLY the backfiring mess that bishi claims emp was. He was one of the loudest officer voices behind the scenes for don't turn things into pre-phinny hack bs.

It's weird, but I think amtrak doesn't really get credit that it deserves in some respects, and gets praised for blind luck in others. I think too many people don't appreciate the work that goes into something like that and especially given selo pacing that it's way more stressful than normal without good breaks. People shit on grisvok without realizing that the guy put in SO much work behind the scenes that nobody outside officerhood saw, and would regularly do private coordinating of help for people. I'd get tells out of blue asking me if soandso other cleric needed x still and if the answer was no I'd often see giraffe or whichever char wasn't banned at the time helping them. I'm confident it was going on for all classes. Instead, he gets the rep as this hacking menace who dropped N bombs, when he was actually a fantastic organizer who genuinely carried about his crew (fuck everyone else, sure...) and wanted to help them out. I've been trying personally to back off on mabbu hate given how much shit people talk and often at random; that was me too for a while, and I feel bad about having his name so often shitting out of my mouth. I'm not saying that mabbu's dox or grisvok's racism were fine, they weren't at all, just maybe a lot of the hate is covering over some good stuff about those guys underneath.

If they ever drop a double loot instead of half lockout selo 2.0 I'm probably there. That server was TOO good.

Anyway, FFXIV and Faceless are probably semi chubbed and want their thread back...

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Rajaah said:

I'm not sure which guild I should be in myself, there are people I like in both and GDKP is fun.

Faceless Hollywood or Faceless Wolfpac?

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yerm said:

A lot of people get into a mindset that because something works it must have been the right decision or even the best decision

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Atabishi said:

No. I'm actually moving to another country in 12 days. Aradune will be the last TLP I ever play. I'll continue raiding on aradune when I can but I'll never see another TLP.



If Amtrak's time was posted and we knew what we were shooting for, we would have beat it. Nothing your dumbass can say to make me think otherwise.
Still scared to post your char name btw?

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