EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)

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Rajaah

Rajaah

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DickTrickle said:
Oh man, that too? That was a real nice tool in a group to break a difficult area. I'll miss that far more than taunt pulling on an everyday basis.

On one hand, I guess they're trying to curb exploits, but it feels sometimes like the wackiness of EQ is what makes it fun. Putting everything into a box and squeezing it tighter isn't something I'm sure is the best, at least for TLP.

I wonder if CoS pulling will still work after this, too. Guessing probably not.

Guess they intentionally left a lot of details out of the patch.
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I've always liked EQ's looseness (read: bugginess and exploitability), even things as simple as being able to levitate onto the Qeynos or (old) Freeport zone walls and look off into a big space of nothingness.

One of the reasons I never got that into WoW is that it felt so restrictive in comparison. Fast-running and levitation are heavily controlled, so you can't kite or gain too much altitude respectively. And my tenure with EQ2 lasted all of a week because every zone I went to felt tightly controlled and they were full of un-scalable walls. I think I gave up when I was fighting in a beach zone on Kunark and there were unpassable dirt walls everywhere, turning this beach into a maze. It was nowhere near as open as EQ's zones.
 
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Rajaah

Rajaah

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your_mum said:
not sure if this stops far taunting via mq2... that executes a movement packet and then an ability packet - so you'll have the los check cleared (the same plugin allows for far hailing and hailing requires LoS, so thats my assumption.)

there's a mechanic called "call for help" that npcs execute and that only executes if the npc has been attacked or proxy agros someone. an npc who is assisting another npc via a "call for help" does not execute a "call for help" itself. if they did more to taunt besides requiring a los check (as in added taunt as a condition in the "call for help" mechanic) then fartaunt will probably not allow single pulls. however i'm not sure if there's an additional mechanic in the npc assist code for a distance check.

bobby's test on stream yesterday - he taunted an indifferent npc and the indifferent npcs around him agrod. before this fix that taunt pull would have singled the target, now it doesnt. so i'm going to assume they added taunt to the "call for help" mechanic.

there are strange outcomes though when invis is involved. root an npc and his friend agros you - invis as that 2nd npc is coming after you and train that npc around. nothing will assist that npc because the npc you attacked cannot see invis. so if taunt doesn't break invis (not online to test that) then technically even with the above mechanics in place you could still fartaunt and single pull npcs who dont see invis.
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So wait, is this how pet pulling works? I've always wondered about pet pulling, have only seen it in action a few times and it looked like it was just a pet attack, then pet bring the mob back situation, which didn't work when I tried it myself. Is the Taunt the thing that makes the pull work without aggro? So essentially you're pet attacking and backing off repeatedly until it fires a taunt, without actually doing damage? This could also be combined with invis.
 
Ryoz

Ryoz

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Haven’t done it myself since in era, but necros/sks could pet pull by fding and sending a green pet in to grab a mob solo. used this in GoD a lot to nab named without having to clear. usually had to da song or bestow da the pet so it didn’t get instantly crunched tho.
 
Pharone

Pharone

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Rajaah said:
I've always liked EQ's looseness (read: bugginess and exploitability), even things as simple as being able to levitate onto the Qeynos or (old) Freeport zone walls and look off into a big space of nothingness.

One of the reasons I never got that into WoW is that it felt so restrictive in comparison. Fast-running and levitation are heavily controlled, so you can't kite or gain too much altitude respectively. And my tenure with EQ2 lasted all of a week because every zone I went to felt tightly controlled and they were full of un-scalable walls. I think I gave up when I was fighting in a beach zone on Kunark and there were unpassable dirt walls everywhere, turning this beach into a maze. It was nowhere near as open as EQ's zones.
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This. Exactly this.

People try to put a finger on what made EQ special over the years, and I've said time and time again that what made it special is the fact that it was a game world rather than a game. WoW and everything that came after it was a GAME first.

Its like this... the first person that used nitrous to make their car go insanely fast for a short period of time wasn't smacked on the head by God and told that isn't the intent of cars.

If they take everything out of EQ that wasn't "intended" game play, we wouldn't have root rotting, kiting, fear kiting, and so much more. The whole essence of what EverQuest is to all those who have played it over the years is the buggy gameplay that it was never programmed to do. Take that all away, and you have just another fantasy-baed MMORPG. Nothing more.
 
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Y

your_mum

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Rajaah said:
So wait, is this how pet pulling works? I've always wondered about pet pulling, have only seen it in action a few times and it looked like it was just a pet attack, then pet bring the mob back situation, which didn't work when I tried it myself. Is the Taunt the thing that makes the pull work without aggro? So essentially you're pet attacking and backing off repeatedly until it fires a taunt, without actually doing damage? This could also be combined with invis.
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I don't think so exactly, or else you wouldn't need a pet that conned green to the mob you're pet pulling. But pet pulling was nerfed 2006/09/19

  • Corrected a couple of problems in the NPC call-for-help code. NPCs will now call for help immediately when attacked regardless of when they were last aggroed if they are no longer aggro. Also, NPCs will now properly aggro on the owner of a pet if the pet is sent to attack the NPC.
 
Stifle

Stifle

Lord Nagafen Raider
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Pharone said:
This. Exactly this.

People try to put a finger on what made EQ special over the years, and I've said time and time again that what made it special is the fact that it was a game world rather than a game. WoW and everything that came after it was a GAME first.

Its like this... the first person that used nitrous to make their car go insanely fast for a short period of time wasn't smacked on the head by God and told that isn't the intent of cars.

If they take everything out of EQ that wasn't "intended" game play, we wouldn't have root rotting, kiting, fear kiting, and so much more. The whole essence of what EverQuest is to all those who have played it over the years is the buggy gameplay that it was never programmed to do. Take that all away, and you have just another fantasy-baed MMORPG. Nothing more.
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I like to think of it this way.
It seems that the devs in the game early on liked to see innovation so long as it wasn't breaking the game for others.. I'm sure the real reason had more to do with willingness or ability to patch changes in a timely manner.

Much like the way justice is supposed to work, so long as you do not encroach on another person, you are justified in your actions and free to do as you please. It's complicated but I always felt like eq was built to be explored and lived in rather than your path being laid out for you
 
Stifle

Stifle

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I remember using flying mounts to parachute into raid zones in Vanguard , definitely felt like it was exploitative , but that they intended for there to be a lot more freedom as you could use the flying mount to go literally anywhere
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Stifle said:
I like to think of it this way.
It seems that the devs in the game early on liked to see innovation so long as it wasn't breaking the game for others.. I'm sure the real reason had more to do with willingness or ability to patch changes in a timely manner.

Much like the way justice is supposed to work, so long as you do not encroach on another person, you are justified in your actions and free to do as you please. It's complicated but I always felt like eq was built to be explored and lived in rather than your path being laid out for you
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They tried to stop feign splitting, kiting, root nuking, etc all the time they were just incompetent
 
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Zapan

Zapan

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Zaide said:
Oh they knew about it; a few DPG employees were in my chat one night and I spent a while just showing them a bunch of exploits including taunt pulls.
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Did you just try to dinner party flex on your own forum?
 
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DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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Zapan said:
I was referring to him being an admin, but I think you’re focusing on the wrong part.
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He's not an admin and never has been, lol. It's just weird when someone comes on here who clearly has no idea about the history of this board at all and says something like that.
 
Zapan

Zapan

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Happy to admit when I’m wrong. I had him pegged as an admin which I picked up from him creating some of these longer-term threads.

edit: it was the TLP rankings forum he’s been an admin on, and I got them mixed up.

Here’s my thing in less of a troll: EQ devs aren’t available generally speaking. They don’t seem engaged with their users or interested in feedback. So I’m just a little surprised that if you did have an audience, that you wouldn’t take full advantage of it to show them more than a few bugs including far taunt.
 
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rad

rad

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Zapan said:
Happy to admit when I’m wrong. I had him pegged as an admin which I picked up from him creating some of these longer-term threads.
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welcome.gif
 
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Lambourne

Lambourne

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Pharone said:
This. Exactly this.

People try to put a finger on what made EQ special over the years, and I've said time and time again that what made it special is the fact that it was a game world rather than a game. WoW and everything that came after it was a GAME first.

Its like this... the first person that used nitrous to make their car go insanely fast for a short period of time wasn't smacked on the head by God and told that isn't the intent of cars.

If they take everything out of EQ that wasn't "intended" game play, we wouldn't have root rotting, kiting, fear kiting, and so much more. The whole essence of what EverQuest is to all those who have played it over the years is the buggy gameplay that it was never programmed to do. Take that all away, and you have just another fantasy-baed MMORPG. Nothing more.
Click to expand...

It's not even just the unintended gameplay, some if it was fully intentional. EQ didn't shy away from giving the players a substantial tool kit, it's seen in the way that it makes monsters relatively powerful but also gives the player far more control over them than other MMOs. Abilities like snare, pacify, SoW and root (all long lasting and castable on multiple targets) give you large amounts of control over an encounter. It's also why the early game, when you don't have any of those abilities available, sucks so bad.

All newer MMOs shied away from that. EQ2 with their locked encounter railroad tracks, WoW with it's limited, single-target only CC. it's probably easier to fine tune the game that way because the player power band is more tightly controlled, but it comes at the cost of reducing depth. EQ throws you in deeper water, but also gives you a bigger toolbox to deal with situations and it's one of the things I love about it.
 
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Regime

Regime

LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
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gated back to sell some loots and saw Sgt Slate going ham.

Matteo guy said he lost 2 levels.


1628848785802.jpeg

1628849110472.jpeg
 
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Zaide

Zaide

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Zapan said:
Happy to admit when I’m wrong. I had him pegged as an admin which I picked up from him creating some of these longer-term threads.

edit: it was the TLP rankings forum he’s been an admin on, and I got them mixed up.

Here’s my thing in less of a troll: EQ devs aren’t available generally speaking. They don’t seem engaged with their users or interested in feedback. So I’m just a little surprised that if you did have an audience, that you wouldn’t take full advantage of it to show them more than a few bugs including far taunt.
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I think they’re more available than most people realize, especially if you can interact like a functioning human when you reach out (many TLP players struggle with this).

What does taking full advantage look like in this case?
 
S

sindaael

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Just realized mages have to use debuff, which slows down dps compared to necros and rangers etc. I mistaken them for a good dps class, but I was wrong.
 
Ryoz

Ryoz

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Zapan said:
Happy to admit when I’m wrong. I had him pegged as an admin which I picked up from him creating some of these longer-term threads.

edit: it was the TLP rankings forum he’s been an admin on, and I got them mixed up.

Here’s my thing in less of a troll: EQ devs aren’t available generally speaking. They don’t seem engaged with their users or interested in feedback. So I’m just a little surprised that if you did have an audience, that you wouldn’t take full advantage of it to show them more than a few bugs including far taunt.
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Can confirm that *many* high end guilds had good working relationships with devs and GMs alike. They relied heavily on guilds to test raid encounters before they were released.
 
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kinadin

kinadin

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Zapan said:
Happy to admit when I’m wrong. I had him pegged as an admin which I picked up from him creating some of these longer-term threads.

edit: it was the TLP rankings forum he’s been an admin on, and I got them mixed up.

Here’s my thing in less of a troll: EQ devs aren’t available generally speaking. They don’t seem engaged with their users or interested in feedback. So I’m just a little surprised that if you did have an audience, that you wouldn’t take full advantage of it to show them more than a few bugs including far taunt.
Click to expand...
Oof.
 
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