Everyone wants to be Beta's I suppose, more officers and members from FTE joined RI than the other way around.
EQ TLP - Oakwynd (Evolving Ruleset Progression Server)
- Thread starter Zaide
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Technically, DZs should be a much better source of loot vs OW, since the lockout is now per-character and you can trade the gear between alts. Even if you have two characters per account, that's double the DZ loot your account will see / have access to vs a few extra OW targets with zero racing. In a real degenerate situation, you could run 3 or 4x of your main class on each account and do 3-4 dzs per week to triple or quadruple loot income.
Depends like you said on how sweaty you want to go, OW targets is like picking up money off the ground. But to level up multiple toons then grind the DZ's just opens up pandoras box for "Well, HOW many toons and HOW many DZ's of the SAME shit do you wanna run". If TGR demands their players to level up half a dozen characters and plan on doubling down every night for 3 nights and raid 6 hours a night it will burn people the fuck out.
Cukernaut
Sharpie Markers Aren't Pens
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Classic is utter trash esp with focus effects out. I could see focus farming (funnel vulak 3x per week) or something like that. Plane of time, etc
TGR will be the guild if you intend to stay long term, RI will most likely fizzle out when the next round of TLPs launch, they seem to be banking on something good for the 25th which seems risky given their recent offerings.
Not sure if FTE will even survive classic in their current state.
Not sure if FTE will even survive classic in their current state.
yerm
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Clearing a dz is basically always faster than open world. I am struggling to think of a situation where a dz is actually slower, minus maybe a nitpick on time spent doing adds or the loading screen. The reason people do open world is because of the extra loot while useful dz content is on a lockout, or maybe a few for the competition and thrill of it.
Leveling characters is shit now because the server just came out. Leveling to 60 during late kunark is not a problem.
You also have to realize that nobody needs to MAKE you do this shit. If I make 2 characters on the same account, I can raid with 1 on the mandatory raids, and I can potentially just raid with a small crew or off hours or something with the other. Shit, maybe join another guild with a different schedule on the other. Whatever I want. The initial startup work is WAY higher to level an entire 2nd character, but once you have it, it's going to be wildly more convenient to just do a dz if you have the numbers.
I think a big deal will be some of the velious content with tradeable loot, on top of the no drop trading. Something like killing tormax is easy if you have geared tanks and clerics, and the only real hurdle to mass splitting him (or like zlandi and stuff) would be that if you mass box and try to do that, the boxes couldn't hang. You needed each split to have however many defensive and geared wars. On oakwynd you only have to gear once to have up to 8 warriors wear it.
Meanwhile, I think shit will really fall off in gates and beyond, as the aa requirements are just too shitty. Having 8 am3/eq rangers in luclin or pop may be doable, having them each do tipt and each complete mpg trials and each... ah fuck it.
A little birdie told me a rumor that if the 25th anniversary ruleset is amazing, there will be a TEB 2. If this birdies rumor is true, I wouldn't expect RI to be moving over there.
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You are right that nobody will MAKE anyone do raiding but the thing is once guild leaders open up the clam for "extra" Raids that give out DKP you know how that will end up. Nobody likes falling behind in DKP.
I heard a rumor that Vicious was gonna merge with 'Bishi just to push out Zaide
I think that would heavily depend on the guild, but was definitely not the case for TEB. While TEB still cleared DZ's at an insane rate that would be faster than most, if not all guilds, the batphones were always stupidly fast. For a lot of the raid mobs classic-velious, people in TEB pretty much knew that if they weren't online at the time of the batphone, there is absolutely no way they are going to log in on time to make it there for the boss. Depending on which boss it was, my normal system was to pull the boss, then batphone, train boss in to whoever is already at the meet spot.
For example in classic, our average naggy kill time from spawn > batphone > dead was about 8 minutes. Vox was about 11 minutes. CT/Inny 15 minutes, and a full sky clear islands 2 to finish took about 30-45 minutes.
Kunark VS spawn > batphone > dead was under 5 minutes, trakanon and the other OW dragons 10-15 minutes, and VP no matter how much we were killing could vary from 15-45 minutes.
Velious, KT 5 minutes or less, dain 10 minutes or less, AoW cycle under 30 min, yeli/tunare 15-20 min (unless tunare had the rare occasion of stubbornness). Full clear of ToV less than an hour.
Luclin - emp 20-25 min or less, VT never more than an hour no matter how many bosses were up. If a lot of bosses were up we would often kill 2 bosses at a time.
PoP - depending on which plane we were batphoning it could range anywhere from 20-45 minutes. We even batphoned wrath council for over 3 months every spawn because we could do it in less than 25 minutes from batphone to dead.
Anyone who was in TEB could verify those times. Those times are all from time of batphone to complete, and several of them are from spawn > batphone > dead. We used to keep track of personal bests in terms of spawn > batphone > dead on batphones. Our personal fastest were all faster than the times I listed but I just put in the averages. Like for example without any poopsock, our pesonal best on naggy was 6 minutes, vox 9 minutes, VS 3 minutes, KT 4 minutes.
So yes, OW was definitely WAY faster than DZ's at least for us. But I understand what you mean by what your saying considering I've seen batphone guilds take over an hour just to kill things like naggy, vox, or even Tormax.. When I played for 2 expansions on Mischief those batphones were the slowest I had ever witnessed and prob were slower than how fast your average guild could finish it inside a DZ.
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I don't think either Viious or myself would have to merge with anyone in order to push him out. It may seem like he has a lot of supporters inside the echo chamber of posters in this forum, but that is pretty much where it ends. I could guarantee you I have the ability without even trying to pull 2-3x more numbers than he could in to a launch guild, and I think vicious could pull more as well.
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So if you are doing OW targets down in around say avg 15-20min and it takes ~30 hours 1 to 50...how many DZ's at 30hours would you have to be "net positive" on a sub 30hour character investment? Around 120 if my math is right? Seems like to get +EV on a character to grind DZ's you either have to invest previously harvested Krono or Invest money into PL. You also have to factor in the "time lost" that it takes to do the "extra DZ" vs obligating to pickup the OW target so its probably more but
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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If lying to yourselves helps you cope, but we're not "supporters" of Zaide as much as people who think you 2 are fucking retards.
Tell us again what you did to those 3 Navy SEALs and how all those 72 boxers filled up general chat channels for no reason
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Zaide
TLP Idealist
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What is long term? If we're talking the first 13% of the server life it's anyone's guess. If we're looking at the other 87% of the time the server exists I'd bet on TGR.
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yerm
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Dude I'm not going to dispute any of your numbers because they completely miss the point. I don't care if open world went faster on aradune because people tried harder. I said that DZs are just easier than open world to do. People taking their sweet time and not actually putting in the same effort does not make them in ANY way harder. The only possible argument I could see for open world is that you could potentially zerg the fuck out of it with 73+ people? Otherwise anything you could kill in open world or dz, the dz is going to be the same or easier to get the kill. There is nothing harder inside the instances.
You had a lot of people because a shitload of people went to your server and you were the only premier open world option. I don't want to overly put you down man, but I don't think you'd necessarily pull out the numbers you think you could if a bunch of other contenders were in the woodwork. Vicious has a crew that follows him place to place, so I don't think there's any doubt on what he could pull. You'd need to prove you can keep your momentum a second go. Maybe you could, maybe you will, but it's really not a definite thing just because TEB happened to be really huge.
Open world targets take several days to respawn. DZs can now be chain run as long as you have the alts to do that. Meanwhile, accepting your 120 math, and expecting around 5 per week in classic and kunark and 8 in velious (max/dain/yel/tov/ww/dn/pof/pog? I miss any worth doing?) If you make your character now it will recoup by luclin. But your math, again, ignores that there simply is not open world available at your leisure or repeatable like dz is. It's available only when it happens to spawn and then it's gone for days. It also can come down because despite FTE rules powerleveling will still be available in its fashion and twinking will certainly be done and there's a bonus to alts, so future characters will get perpetually easier to level each time to where it's not even close to ~30 hours to get your 5th cleric to 50.
You also have to factor in if "you are gonna stay for the long haul" or bail in a year as well. Lets be real here, most are already preparing to bail in a year if they weren't that type of player in the first place (like myself tbh). You also have to figure in the time invested to "upkeep" the character (5 extra levels + AA's)
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I think you are remembering wrong. There were 4 guilds who originally recruited based on being the premier open world guild. In fact, TEB was the last of the 4 to make a recruitment post. I believe the only other server that had more than 1 guild recruit based on being the premier open world racing guild was Selos with 2 guilds, Amtrak and Faceless.
After I made the TEB recruitment post, RI numbers dropped significantly which also caused many others to abandon ship from there. They had a guild meeting in voice with about 30ish people and then decided that their best option was to merge with Rampage, creating Rampage World Tour, which based on the consensus that I understood was who everyone thought would win. Dima was the only guild leader I spoke to that thought TEB had a chance against their guild.
The other guild that recruited based on being the premier open world guild had about 100-150 member signups prior to launch, but ultimately failed when their guild leader got banned during the 1-50 level grind and quit the server. We ended up taking a good % of those members about a week after the Aradune race was over.
Shortly after launch, another guild started recruiting based on doing OW batphones but ultimately could not win any dps races against us so they gave that up during classic. We ended up absorbing them during Kunark.
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