EQ TLP - Vaniki (Level-Locked Progression)

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Zog

Zog

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Depends on the size of the guild, obviously but there's just far too many good items in each expansion that theres always chase items that people want. Tunare cloaks/blade of carnage, pretty much everything in NToV. I might see a warrior passing on Vex Thal gear in full SoV gear just because its not really that big of a difference between NToV gear.

Difference between full NToV gear and full elemental plate for a warrior numerically isnt much different, time gear is a different story but someone has to buy the darkblade, so in the end it doesn't really matter, I never saw much of a suppression of prices for chase items in an expansion anyways, BIS is BIS, whether its day 1 or day 90.

Diminishing returns for going over the AC softcap makes this even more negligible and the 600 raw HP from the body slots isn't going to be the difference between getting 1 shot or not.

AA's are far more important than any piece of gear and if you're going to give people shit for anything its being too lazy to get those AA's that are crucial for every class.

Ill also add almost every guild I've been in has had a DKP wipe moving into the next expansion as well, so this is rarely an issue.
 
yerm

yerm

Golden Baronet of the Realm
6,491
16,607
Mrniceguy said:
You end up with a Warrior that cant tank anything because he's still in SoV gear because he hoarded to get the first Darkblade.
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Then the other warriors with eoe and bf can tank and its really not that bad. Or they could not bid him out of his entire stash like cunts. Being a ninny nanny about loot and crushing morale so that dudes feel unmotivated is just gonna be worse in the long run than a few people bad with dkp anyway.

Vanessa said:
Fixed price dkp and the most dkp wins item is the most balanced system imo~ It will always reward the most guild dedicated first!
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Fixed price is trash and there's a good reason the various guilds around here that fiddled with it in the past went on to bid systems. An item now is worth a lot more than an item later. An item may be worth more to me than someone else but with a fixed price they'll just buy it.
 
Metalhead

Metalhead

Blackwing Lair Raider
963
2,560
Mrniceguy said:
You end up with a Warrior that cant tank anything because he's still in SoV gear because he hoarded to get the first Darkblade.
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We had a warrior in my guild on Rizlona that did this couple times. First was a bloodfrenzy he blew months of dkp on, second was the first timeless BP mold. He went into Gates of Discord still wearing a lot of tradeskilled PoP plate armor and velious stuff. He couldn't tank shit, and didn't last a whole lot longer after that iirc.
 
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L

Los_Necros

Trakanon Raider
337
150
DickTrickle said:
Did they have something for AFK checks or search after for tells/says? I played on Test for a long time and I actually got reported twice for being AFK. Mind you, I was killing but it was in Twilight Sea and Jagged Pine Forest of all places. There used to be a real uppity faction on Test but not sure if it's still like that.

I'll still have some doubt about a ban solely for SEQ.
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That's exactly what I'm thinking. I wonder if those test toons would have been hit the same for just standing there afk without maps loaded. Somehow those tiny sample size of toons get hit but none of us real people hear about any of our friends hitting hit for using it. Very strange.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider
16,043
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yerm said:
Then the other warriors with eoe and bf can tank and its really not that bad. Or they could not bid him out of his entire stash like cunts. Being a ninny nanny about loot and crushing morale so that dudes feel unmotivated is just gonna be worse in the long run than a few people bad with dkp anyway.
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Other warriors should also have better gear since there's one less warrior bidding against them, so should be net neutral
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,406
15,567
Mrniceguy said:
You end up with a Warrior that cant tank anything because he's still in SoV gear because he hoarded to get the first Darkblade.
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Yeah, but that's why warrior B, who bought up all the plate, tanks first. I mean, unless you're going to force people to buy certain things or have it be awarded by loot council, people aren't necessarily going to make the optimal choice. I feel like it's a player problem and something for guild leadership to handle if they're not gearing appropriately, and not really a drawback of a DKP system.
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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The drama around top-tier players refusing to loot non-bis equipment is like item #8 on my "why I'm glad I'm not leading raids" list.
 
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Rajaah

Rajaah

Honorable Member
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yerm said:
Then the other warriors with eoe and bf can tank and its really not that bad. Or they could not bid him out of his entire stash like cunts. Being a ninny nanny about loot and crushing morale so that dudes feel unmotivated is just gonna be worse in the long run than a few people bad with dkp anyway.



Fixed price is trash and there's a good reason the various guilds around here that fiddled with it in the past went on to bid systems. An item now is worth a lot more than an item later. An item may be worth more to me than someone else but with a fixed price they'll just buy it.
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Story about morale-crushing:

Once I was guilded with a beastlord who was a long-time 100% RA guy. Didn't play at all outside of raids, but never missed a raid tick. Refused to use any weapons besides Hand-to-Hand, despite having other weapon choices / H2H being super rare for us at the time / literally all of the guild monks using previous-expansion weapons because hardly anything was dropping.

Guy would bid on every new H2H that was an upgrade for him, with his whale-like DKP, then upgrade again inside the same expansion. Like he'd collect all the weapons, even knowing he'd replace them soon, and put them in his house. Got to the point where this BST bought the first Ball of Sunlight in Solteris (which took a bunch of raids to drop, of course) and two other monks who were using Brumal's from TSS or 2.5's just straight-up quit the guild.

SoF arrived, guy continued to sponge up new H2H weaps and the low H2H drop rate woes continued, so we ended up running Fabled Plane of Fire for 2HB drops for the monks just to get them some kind of fuckin' upgrade. Got like 3 staffs on one raid and it was an upgrade for 3 monks, though not what Solt / SoF weaps would be. At least in SoD weapon drops increased significantly and the Whale BST stopped being such a problem for the monks. For several expansions they were locked out by this fuckin' weapon-collecting guy though.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
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DickTrickle said:
I'm not sure how that hurts the guild. It's still the same amount of drops regardless of the system. So, Warrior A blows his load for some aggro sword, then that means Warrior B has less competition for plate and lower prices. I guess maybe the highest RA players might be the most likely to blow their load, thus allowing lower play time players the cheaper gear and that somewhat dilutes the quality of the guild, but 1) I'm not sure it's true the high timer players are the biggest spenders relative to their DKP and 2) they'll have more DKP generation to make up for it on the back end. At the end of the day, the guild is still getting the same number of drops.
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If you're trying to do multiple splits and batphone at all hours of the night you need a lot of geared tanks. If some of the Warriors are locked in to a Cold War over who gets the first Scepter of Destruction and then cripple each other's DKP totals when the first few drop that's not good for anyone. They're not getting upgrades and when they finally do they're blowing their whole wad.

These are old TLP problems though and rarely show up. Everyone running a big guild now has seen people derp before and sets up the loot to curtail that kind of stuff. Item pref with fixed prices for a few weeks, free aggro weapons if they're droppable (returned to the guild upon upgrade), fixed price Bloodfrenzy, etc. You tend to have pruned out the downy-est of the downies by Velious anyway.
 
TairyGreene

TairyGreene

Golden Knight of the Realm
154
108
Secrets said:
Rogean, EQEmulator & P99's main administrator was harassed by RyanTwin20 (aka RyanAndSean) at his workplace and those galaxy brains streamed the harassment on Twitch. After, Rogean's company threatened legal action against the two goons and they backed off rather quickly once they had police at their hotel room. So I mean, harassment is generally a better way for a company to take action against you compared to casual MQ2 usage.
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Damn. I heard those twins talking big game about how they're gonna shut down Rogean and end his career! Can't believe their big, bold, not delusional claims didn't come to fruition. What an ironic twist!
 
M

Mrniceguy

Trakanon Raider
738
413
DickTrickle said:
Yeah, but that's why warrior B, who bought up all the plate, tanks first. I mean, unless you're going to force people to buy certain things or have it be awarded by loot council, people aren't necessarily going to make the optimal choice. I feel like it's a player problem and something for guild leadership to handle if they're not gearing appropriately, and not really a drawback of a DKP system.
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Not really the way it works cause other plate classes exist. Warriors want non plate items also, so if they're all hording for DBoWs not gonna be winning those. But even in that case it's really beneficial to the guild for splits or OW that both Warrior A and B are capable of tanking. It's a huge drawback of the system. Some DKPs address it with having a cap you can spend on a item then in a tie the item goes to the highest RA, some try having a set price for certain chase items IE highest RA Shaman gets TA for 2 weeks worth of DKP ect.
 
Metalhead

Metalhead

Blackwing Lair Raider
963
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The winning strat is for warriors especially to work out a pecking order for those class items between themselves for minimal dkp. People will cry collusion but fuck em. Warriors have enough we have to spend dkp on.
 
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yerm

yerm

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Yeah one solution here is to talk to these people and tell them to stop being such assfucks. If you have a guy who only buys weapons and it fucks others, is someone saying something? Also if they're doing this and only raid logging, they sound like a shit person to have, they're not even putting their gear to use in off others helping people enjoy the game? Did anyone have an honest talk with the man?

I think 9 times out of 10 the problems here aren't dkps fault. They are players being shitty. A weapon collector can still do that in fixed price anyway.
 
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Fight

Fight

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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He sounds like a classic EQ Autist. God knows, there are plenty of them.

Every guild I was in, I was friends with the other people playing the same class. We always talked in /whispers and knew who was getting what and never bid each other up. We were rooting for one another and happy when we got gear.

Fuck, the alternative is pretty sad and would be enraging.
 
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Zaide

Zaide

TLP Idealist
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We had a Warrior early on who was retarded and hoarded dkp for weapons. He got rolled frequently on fights and got really upset when the other Warriors made fun of him. I tried talking to him about it but the second time I saw him start this cycle I just booted him. He ended up joining some guild that gives all class weapons for free based on RA. I sometimes consider stealing the idea now.
 
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SorrowsEnd

SorrowsEnd

Trakanon Raider
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816
I've said for years I'd love a dkp bid system with officer veto where you can just say nope, you can't have that.

Funnel the proper crap to your people doing the heavy lifting and then let your shitters clean up later on in the expansion.

I have zero problems telling people they suck for bidding on things they shouldn't though, a lot of folks seem to have issues speaking up
 
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Ritley

Ritley

Karazhan Raider
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SorrowsEnd said:
I've said for years I'd love a dkp bid system with officer veto where you can just say nope, you can't have that.

Funnel the proper crap to your people doing the heavy lifting and then let your shitters clean up later on in the expansion.

I have zero problems telling people they suck for bidding on things they shouldn't though, a lot of folks seem to have issues speaking up
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Sounds like officer award with extra steps
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
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There's always an implied Rule Zero in effect but people really don't want anyone else's opinion on what they're buying.
 
Rajaah

Rajaah

Honorable Member
<Gold Donor>
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Metalhead said:
The winning strat is for warriors especially to work out a pecking order for those class items between themselves for minimal dkp. People will cry collusion but fuck em. Warriors have enough we have to spend dkp on.
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Pretty much. In OGC there was always kind of an unspoken honor system where most people wouldn't bid each other up. Probably 95% of the time that I went in on a weapon and someone started to bid it up, they stop and delete their bids. Stuff like that. Items that are clearly for a specific class usually they won't bid each other up on past a low level.

Warriors have to spend more DKP than anybody, to the point that it's one class I'm alright with meriting armor to without bidding, maybe even without DKP under some circumstances. Like going into SoF, boss damage ramps way the hell up in Meldrath's Mansion and Crystallos, and on a fast-moving progression server warrior gear can be an issue if only one or two are geared enough for the boss damage. If the warriors can't tank Tactical Prototype, you ain't getting shit for everyone else lootwise.
 
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