EQ TLP - Vaniki (Level-Locked Progression)

Secrets said:

Zero misinformation from my part. If they use the detection I am mentioning, it has a 0% false detection/association rate.

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None of what you said was wrong. This method is well known and has been. But the new detection is not this method.

After talking with a few people close to the situation the primary reason they are going after mq users was because of the release of mqnext. jchan didnt like the so called agreement with eqmule but she was kind of planning to stick to it. Once mqnext came onto the scene she felt like it was a breach of agreement and decided to go after them.

Elderan said:

Even those who play clean get caught up in false flags normally by account association. It happens far more than people think.

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Fair, yea. I shared my druid with a friend way back in mid 2000's and when I wanted to play years later it had some kind of closed-for-naughtyness thing. I had kind of forgotten about that.

I think I had to send an email or something to get it re-opened.

I did share my main account with Biny the baconmomma because she was getting me luclin shards while I was at work I was very much an only-show-up-for-raids kind of player back then.

Ok, how do Shaman/necro DoT's work with damage? Can you overkill? Can you multicast a DoT after the first tick for full damage each cast?

WorryPlaysGames said:

Ok, how do Shaman/necro DoT's work with damage? Can you overkill? Can you multicast a DoT after the first tick for full damage each cast?

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DoTs apply their full credit over time instantly for the full value of the DoT. DDs apply their full credit instantly (obviously)

For example in classic:

2 Envenomed Bolts on Efreeti Lord will take credit.
You cannot undo credit once applied. First to higher than 50% (>= 50) damage total will take credit for the NPC.

There is no such thing as overkill. Credit is applied to the mob's total HP pool. So if you nuke w/ Ice Comet, and you deal 55% of the mob's health in one hit, and the mob has 43% health remaining, you won't take credit. I think there's an exception to one shotting mobs which I could be wrong about.

So the idiot with 6 necros at a spawn where you only need 3 necros is wasting those 3 krono'd accounts for that era, provided he can kill the mob quickly with the 3.

If you DoT a mob at 43%, the same applies. Your EBolt may take, say, 41% of the mob's health in a single cast for credit. But if someone's already claimed 51%, you lose credit.

When you account for HP regen, the credit is still applied to the person who gets 51% first, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. NPC Gate doesn't count, as it clears 'credit' tables.

I believe non-pet NPC engagement (ie; guards) functions differently and removes credit for experience/loot but only if the guard takes the killing blow OR the guard steals 51% of credit OR the guard deals more than the mob's total health in one hit.

Reapplication shouldn't redo credit, but to be honest, I've never tried. Too long of a recast normally. Generally, just have 2 necros or shaman parked somewhere, ebolt, then if it's contested congrats, you've won 50% credit. Or an SK with HT would work to instantly apply massive damage, then follow up with an ebolt cast if contesting against another person. Provided your ebolt goes off first, you win.

In kunark shaman get Bane of nife, it's horribly inefficient but it will outcompete Ebolt, In Velious (if they raid, or pay $$ for loot rights) they get Ancient Scourge which is an absolute beast of a dot.

Also, any SKs that want a free Circlet of Shadow instead of paying the necro shitlords that perma camp it, know that HT will secure a bodyguard kill as long as you get in quick. The circlet is about 50/50 or slightly less drop rate but you can get a shot at one every 72 mins give or take.

S Secrets Thats what we thought also, but we were testing wizards vs shaman on Hill Giants today. We would root and the Wizard would take the giant down to 40% and back off. I cast Envenomed Bolt at 40% (no regen happening) and I would get the kill.

Edit: around 37% the Wizard would win vs EB.

if the Wizard conflagged, I cast EB and he conflagged again he would win.

The rest makes sense but this part didn’t.

Prodigal said:

Doesn’t seem right - was the wizard staying on the aggro list?

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Yes, since it was on the hill, he had to pull them back with flux staff and then he rooted. We let him cast smaller nukes that took off 13~% a hit until 39-41. Then be backed off. I would cast 1 EB and win. We did it more than once as we thought it was a fluke.

We went to Hate after to try higher HP mobs and 4 EBs (cast after the 1st tick) would win vs his whole mana bar on rats. He was being efficient also with rains and ice comets, so he was straight casting 100% - 0. Mobs were Malo'd before hand. Damage logs showed him with 6kish damage and me with 1400. So the DoT's applying fully seems to be correct or else I'm not winning that fight.

WorryPlaysGames said:

S Secrets Thats what we thought also, but we were testing wizards vs shaman on Hill Giants today. We would root and the Wizard would take the giant down to 40% and back off. I cast Envenomed Bolt at 40% (no regen happening) and I would get the kill.

Edit: around 37% the Wizard would win vs EB.

if the Wizard conflagged, I cast EB and he conflagged again he would win.

The rest makes sense but this part didn’t.

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To be honest, it sounds like there's a 15% threshold or something for DD vs DoT.
Can you try the opposite - EB then Conflag once EB's run its full course?

Dots just don't work correctly in DPS races. I've heard a bunch of different theory's on how they work, but none of them have been correct.

Getting 2 bonus ticks for any dot that ticks once and has a nuke component has been the closest one to the truth. It's not exactly that from what i've seen, but that theory seems close.

Elderan said:

None of what you said was wrong. This method is well known and has been. But the new detection is not this method.

After talking with a few people close to the situation the primary reason they are going after mq users was because of the release of mqnext. jchan didnt like the so called agreement with eqmule but she was kind of planning to stick to it. Once mqnext came onto the scene she felt like it was a breach of agreement and decided to go after them.

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This isn't what happened. You would be surprised how little management occurs at DPG over the dev team, and how much is driven by individuals who can essentially do almost anything they want. This coincides with some people having close affiliations with live guilds that are omega anti-cheat and create a culture of religious fantacism against it.

The big difference is most likely that Holly was against anything that reduced revenue and would have acted against such a vigorous series of banwaves in some way, Jchan appears to be less concerned and maybe that's because EG7 told her they don't care that much about quarterly EBTIDA or something, who knows--it could frankly just be Holly cared more about the small % hits to revenue and Jchan doesn't. The difference is definitely that Jchan is in charge and not Holly, but it's not that Jchan has pushed anything, Jchan allows things to happen and there are people who work at DPG who are basically fully rogue (this includes them leaking personal customer data to live guilds to use against those people.)

Edit--that isn't to say there isn't a deliberate movement against anticheat, it was even mentioned in the roadmap. Just the specific suspension waves on a semi-regular schedule that started in January 2022 was essentially driven by DPG employees doing something they wanted to do, not corporate policy. Obviously it was tolerated after that or it would have stopped, but the management / oversight and institutional control inside DPG is atrocious--including dev team members having inappropriate access to non-anonymized customer data (which they have then shared with people outside the company for personal reasons.)

Ended up joining a guild group when 55 unlocked last night to see how far we could get with a strict 2 hour timeframe. Obviously there is the 76% XP bonus and I treated myself to a 75% XP Pot too, still only took 1 hour 36 minutes to get to 55 without charm, not a bad return. Still 4th to ding 55 in guild, quickest was just over an hour with charm, heh

Did Plane of Valor caves with War, clr, mnk, nec, nec, rng with 2 shamans and a druid oog (did get one of the shamans to ding 51 for new slow, rest stayed at 50) Managed to get 2 AA's as well before we quit, was getting 17.7% AA XP a kill ;p

Probably won't do other leveling on the server that fast outside of power levelling and probably not that impressive to you guys, but I was still happy with the result! Can concentrate on getting the other 4aa's i need for pet hold now, will have to see if i can get those prior to our raid tonight.

Ecko said:

Ended up joining a guild group when 55 unlocked last night to see how far we could get with a strict 2 hour timeframe. Obviously there is the 76% XP bonus and I treated myself to a 75% XP Pot too, still only took 1 hour 36 minutes to get to 55 without charm, not a bad return. Still 4th to ding 55 in guild, quickest was just over an hour with charm, heh

Did Plane of Valor caves with War, clr, mnk, nec, nec, rng with 2 shamans and a druid oog (did get one of the shamans to ding 51 for new slow, rest stayed at 50) Managed to get 2 AA's as well before we quit, was getting 17.7% AA XP a kill ;p

Probably won't do other leveling on the server that fast outside of power levelling and probably not that impressive to you guys, but I was still happy with the result! Can concentrate on getting the other 4aa's i need for pet hold now, will have to see if i can get those prior to our raid tonight.

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Damn nice! It took me 4 hours to go from 0% into 50-55 doing LDoN's and charm pets in Barindu. But I didnt use any potions.

Tuco said:

I know nothing about the internals of DPG but this rings the most true to me. These kinds of developer outfits are driven by individual developer's motivation to do something more than a cohesive strategy passed down from management. And that's typically a good thing with this anti-cheat move being a good example.

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As someone who was on the "wrong side" of cheaters essentially abusing the game for competitive advantage on TLPs before there is a part of me that would love to see EQ cleaned up. But as a developer myself and a former dev manager, the idea of using access to customer data that you have pursuant to your job, and then giving that data to third parties outside the company is just beyond the pale. I work in an actual regulated industry and I would face personal legal liability for doing something like that (my employer would have liability as well), obviously gaming is the Wild West but it is still massively shitty.

My main beef with SOE/DPG on anticheat is they chose to do nothing about it when its use was egregious and game-defining for over a decade. A lot of things that are commonplace now have only become commonplace because of like a solid decade of inaction on extreme cheating.

Sieger said:

As someone who was on the "wrong side" of cheaters essentially abusing the game for competitive advantage on TLPs before there is a part of me that would love to see EQ cleaned up. But as a developer myself and a former dev manager, the idea of using access to customer data that you have pursuant to your job, and then giving that data to third parties outside the company is just beyond the pale. I work in an actual regulated industry and I would face personal legal liability for doing something like that (my employer would have liability as well), obviously gaming is the Wild West but it is still massively shitty.

My main beef with SOE/DPG on anticheat is they chose to do nothing about it when its use was egregious and game-defining for over a decade. A lot of things that are commonplace now have only become commonplace because of like a solid decade of inaction on extreme cheating.

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I'd just feel down right sorry for whatever kind of life form is out there that would manually track fucking dragons and shit. I know its there, cause that shit happens on P99. But fuck that mess.

Can't get pet hold until 59, didn't notice that, so that's a bit of a fucker, another 4 weeks to wait for that. At least it should be auto-granted by then.

Looks like you can get into BoT without a key now, so will probably try and get some ornate from there since it should be easy to get a group going in. Still need a key for Sol Ro tower which is a bit of a pain, but got mana pres 3 and burning affliction 3 focuses already so anything else gear wise is just a bonus. Pretty nice not having to worry about gearing up a tank for once!