EQN:Landmark Beta Starts March 26th!

Agenor_sl said:

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So could I play this on my macbook retina? I know Macs don't work native, and I would have to use bootcamp or something, just wondering what the anticipated computer specs are.

Eh , I've screamed as much as anyone over SOE going into stupid land with Troll Ninja Paladin and Disney Avatar land , also made fun of their corporate kickstarter, but one thing hit me,

Is it really any worse to sell "alpha" status access than it is to charge for a "retail" game that they know fucking well they are shipping too early?

Everyone on this board including myself has bought a game at launch knowing good and fucking well it was rushed out the door and not ready. Multiple times I bet.

I have to admit , it seems honestly worse to sell a supposedly "ready" product and declare it ready knowing its buggy and unfinished as shit , vs just honestly saying you are buying into alpha.

All the holier than thou financial advisors in this thread I guarantee are guilty of buying a launch game they knew was rushed and in no way ready.

Then you realize SOE has done both

Well, there was actually a time where people used to call people dumb for even pre-ordering a game, back when that started being an option. Now it's standard. Then "pre-orders come bundled with early access to betas!". And now it's "Well the game is free, so straight up pay us for alpha". It's a fairly natural evolution, and it really just boils down to "If you'll pay me now, why wouldn't I let you?"

I think where some people get angry, is not so much at WAY TO WASTE YOUR MONEY GAWD (although that's how it's voiced), but really because it continues to encourage the behavior by companies, which many people see as negative - the point where games being just utterly broken at launch is typical.

Bruman_sl said:

Well, there was actually a time where people used to call people dumb for even pre-ordering a game, back when that started being an option. Now it's standard. Then "pre-orders come bundled with early access to betas!". And now it's "Well the game is free, so straight up pay us for alpha". It's a fairly natural evolution, and it really just boils down to "If you'll pay me now, why wouldn't I let you?"

I think where some people get angry, is not so much at WAY TO WASTE YOUR MONEY GAWD (although that's how it's voiced), but really because it continues to encourage the behavior by companies, which many people see as negative - the point where games being just utterly broken at launch is typical.

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boom

Bruman_sl said:

Well, there was actually a time where people used to call people dumb for even pre-ordering a game, back when that started being an option. Now it's standard. Then "pre-orders come bundled with early access to betas!". And now it's "Well the game is free, so straight up pay us for alpha". It's a fairly natural evolution, and it really just boils down to "If you'll pay me now, why wouldn't I let you?"

I think where some people get angry, is not so much at WAY TO WASTE YOUR MONEY GAWD (although that's how it's voiced), but really because it continues to encourage the behavior by companies, which many people see as negative - the point where games being just utterly broken at launch is typical.

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Pretty much. Pre-order was just to make sure you were guaranteed a copy when it released. Then they started gifts/rewards, then access to betas and now access to a alpha that hasn't even started yet. Give it a few more years and gamers will be help funding every game development and still paying for shit once it's released. I'm sure the large developers are looking at things like kickstarter and this kinda of setup and thinking "how do we get in on that so we can make even more money?". It's like getting investors but you owe them no money later. Might as well just take donations.

Remit_sl said:

Fuck home depot. Go to lowes. Only buy doors and MAYBE cabinets at home depot. Set up an LAR account while you are at it if you are actually going to spend a decent amount (>$5k)

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I just bought pre hung doors for my basement, they were on sale, woot.

What is LAR?

There is a simple solution to get around not paying SOE for any of the founders packs. This way everyone can be happy. If you think SOE is setting a bad trend with the gaming industry, then this is the best solution for you.

Don't buy a founders pack.

Now that the secret is out, spread the word.

SaidBetterThan_sl said:

So could I play this on my macbook retina? I know Macs don't work native, and I would have to use bootcamp or something, just wondering what the anticipated computer specs are.

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Check Planetside 2 specs. It'll be in that range probably.

"Kyle, pre-ordering a game means you're just paying for something that some asshole in California hasn't even finished yet. When you pre-order a game, all you're getting is a big dick in your mouth.."-eric cartman

zzeris_sl said:

When exactly did the unbroken MMOs come out? That's the argument right? Don't pay to build their game? Don't pay for them to release unfinished product? Is this seriously an argument being thrown around in a MMO forum? Name those MMOs released without significant issues. WoW had a lot of issues early. Rift messed up it's own namesake system right before launch. GW2 didn't have parts working. Name the MMO that came out where people didn't have to help fix the game they already paid for. Where people didn't have issues logging in or staying logged in. Still buying them aren't we? It's really simple. Pay for what you want and then go fuck off.

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It's not my argument, but to play along....

GW2 was extremely playable at launch. Their auction house thing was down, but the game was playable, beyond some lag here and there. It was actually the most playable launch I've been a part of, thanks to their overflow servers - no queues, you got to play. That seemed to be the standard story from all my friends at launch too. Seemed like a great launch, AH aside.

I actually dug up some old emails from an old mailing list with some RL friends from WoW Beta / Launch. I don't personally remember any of it - what issues were there? Our emails talked about how great a launch it was. That's all I have to go on there.

Of course, preorders have been common for years, so your argument would be "before preorders, MMOs were perfect". I don't know exactly when preorders were the norm, but it was obviously long before Rift or GW2 anyways. I don't know if it was before WoW. EQ was before that time, but it's launch was pretty terrible from what I heard - but I don't know if it was just full servers of what.

But all of that wasn't even what I was saying - provided all your comments were directed at me, but maybe they weren't. My point is that people are upset at paying for alpha simply based on the precedent it will set, not at the individual actually doing it so much. Before pay-for-alpha > kickstarter > preorder w/ beta access > preorder days, games mostly got released and worked when you bought them from the store. There's lots of reasons why it's different now - patches weren't an option, recalling and issueing new carts/cds was expensive, 3d engines are very complex, and MMOs are *very* complex. But already having people's money definitely is part of the total picture.

And I don't even care if people pay early or not, I just find the discussion interesting.

Edit: Wait, maybe you weren't responding to me after all. I think I get what you were saying - that people arguing "alpha/preordering pays us to fix the game" isn't working, obviously.

Krysanth_sl said:

I just bought pre hung doors for my basement, they were on sale, woot.

What is LAR?

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I hate interior doors. LAR is some awesome lowes credit account that you get a flat 5% off, and if you spend more than 2500, you go through the pro desk and get like 10% off

Bruman_sl said:

GW2 was extremely playable at launch.

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GW2 had its share of bugs. Plenty of bugged skill points, bugged encounter chains, bugged hearts, WvW was terrible because of culling in large battles, ability delay in WvW in large battles. PVE wise the dungeons were often atrociously bugged, and then continued to be bugged patch after patch making me question for the first time if anyone actually QA'd any of their changes. PVE tokens were misvalued, where things like gloves cost the price of a chest item. They also had tons of party issues where it was impossible for players to get together into the same instance. This was annoying for overflow areas outdoors, and also made forming dungeon groups impossible much of the time.

The most incredulous thing to me was when they released Fractals, which took anywhere from 45min-2 hours to complete. If someone DC'd, you had to start over. How something like that makes it into release either through lack of testing or poor design is beyond me.

Bruman_sl said:

I actually dug up some old emails from an old mailing list with some RL friends from WoW Beta / Launch. I don't personally remember any of it - what issues were there? Our emails talked about how great a launch it was. That's all I have to go on there.

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I will never forget the horror of Hogger routinely being stuck in the tree near his spawn and constantly evading.

I remember cursing the loot bug for at least 6 months Especially being on a pvp server.

yeah. comparing "unfinished" rift, wow, Gw2" to lets say.. the last SoE mmo, DCUO is a joke.

DCUO was in alpha state up to the date of release. Chat wasn't even working for fucks sake.