Fallout

Caliane · Apr 17, 2024

Muldovar and raiders. its something that I noted, but didn't bring up.

Its an odd thing. As it seems like the Muldovar story is over.. but, it can't be. Rose, raiders, ncr, how is she alive? too much to explain still. the must be planning flashbacks for s2.

ok, so everyone died in vault 32 via a revolt. "some time ago".
The exchange is "tri-annual", would could mean 3 times a year, or every 3 years. since, v32 died "some time ago", we should assume every 3 years.

there is.. but also isn't communication between the vaults? Did hank not notice no one was responding for 2 years?
muldover uses rose's pipboy to enter 32.

how the hell did no one question that they didn't recognize anyone? this meet and greet is supposed to happen every 3 years. "I'm lee muldavor overseer of vault 32". how the fuck did hank not question this? she didnt even give a fake name.
hank does say, condolences for the loss of the previous overseer, he heard about it in the telegrams.. so they were communicating.. this would imply she was spending time in the vault.

ncr or raiders? they sure act like raiders.

Why wouldn't they outright occupy vault 32? especially if they are NCR, not random raiders?

Bald Brah · Apr 17, 2024

As for Rose, it's implied her and muldover were dyking out and in loooove so I guess when she went feral muldover kept her lover around for some lickety split.

Kinda like the governor in walking dead with his daughter.

Phazael · Apr 17, 2024

BoozeCube said:
I wouldn’t spend too much time trying to deep dive the motive for Vault tech making cash and blowing up the earth. It really is just a stupid premise, it’s like the WEF killing us all but instead of living on opulence they have to freeze themselves and live in a radioactive shithole hellscape…

Bombs must go boom for the plot. It’s really that simple.

Well if you look at the games and show, there are three possible starts to WW3. All of them revolve around the vaults to some degree. In the OG games and cannon, they talk about how the threat of WW3 lingered for so long that people became numbed and complacent to it. A lot of people who bought spots in the vaults never made it to them as a result. FO2 posited the idea that the Enclave (basically the deep state of USSA in the world) wanted to colonize another planet or at least escape this one and wanted Vault Tec to specifically conduct experiments on the occupants to gather scientific data to further that goal. There is another hint that the Zeta aliens may have started the war at some point. The games never conclusively say who launched first.

It is well within the game cannon for VT to have dropped a random bomb someplace to kick things off and get people into their lab rat vaults and not have it conflict with the Enclave stuff. Its also possible that this was an idea they were mulling over but it started in another way coincidentally, as it was simply presented as a board room idea pitch in the show and the whole China / Resource Wars / ect stuff was coming to a head in the run up to the war as it was portrayed in the show. VT and most other mega corps were convinced nuclear war was inevitable, as was the Enclave. Its entirely possible they decided to set it off deliberately at a time of their choosing to maximize their preparations, but they never explicitly said that is how it went down in the show. Only that they were planning around that idea. I like that its kept mostly vague in both the game and the show.

Where the show dropped the ball (and to their credit there is a lot of world building to cover in this universe) is the entire Resource Wars in Europe and the Battle of Anchorage with the Chinese (Cooper mentions being part of that battle) shaping things that led to the actual nukes flying. They also did not mention the wars on the moon, but to be fair it was mostly glossed over in the games too. A viewer unfamiliar with the source material is left with the impression that the entire world was 1950s Hollywood then boom nukes happen, which is obviously not the entire story. Hopefully the next season fleshes that out more. I really hope they make the NV House always Wins ending cannon, since this would be a foundation on the downfall of the NCR and decline of the BoS in the show. The idea of the VT managers nuking shady sands to weaken both of their key rivals makes good sense in that context.

Harshaw · Apr 17, 2024

Phazael said:
Well if you look at the games and show, there are three possible starts to WW3. All of them revolve around the vaults to some degree. In the OG games and cannon, they talk about how the threat of WW3 lingered for so long that people became numbed and complacent to it. A lot of people who bought spots in the vaults never made it to them as a result. FO2 posited the idea that the Enclave (basically the deep state of USSA in the world) wanted to colonize another planet or at least escape this one and wanted Vault Tec to specifically conduct experiments on the occupants to gather scientific data to further that goal. There is another hint that the Zeta aliens may have started the war at some point. The games never conclusively say who launched first.

It is well within the game cannon for VT to have dropped a random bomb someplace to kick things off and get people into their lab rat vaults and not have it conflict with the Enclave stuff. Its also possible that this was an idea they were mulling over but it started in another way coincidentally, as it was simply presented as a board room idea pitch in the show and the whole China / Resource Wars / ect stuff was coming to a head in the run up to the war as it was portrayed in the show. VT and most other mega corps were convinced nuclear war was inevitable, as was the Enclave. Its entirely possible they decided to set it off deliberately at a time of their choosing to maximize their preparations, but they never explicitly said that is how it went down in the show. Only that they were planning around that idea. I like that its kept mostly vague in both the game and the show.

Where the show dropped the ball (and to their credit there is a lot of world building to cover in this universe) is the entire Resource Wars in Europe and the Battle of Anchorage with the Chinese (Cooper mentions being part of that battle) shaping things that led to the actual nukes flying. They also did not mention the wars on the moon, but to be fair it was mostly glossed over in the games too. A viewer unfamiliar with the source material is left with the impression that the entire world was 1950s Hollywood then boom nukes happen, which is obviously not the entire story. Hopefully the next season fleshes that out more. I really hope they make the NV House always Wins ending cannon, since this would be a foundation on the downfall of the NCR and decline of the BoS in the show. The idea of the VT managers nuking shady sands to weaken both of their key rivals makes good sense in that context.

Well if Hank really did nuke or whatever Sandy Shores than Vault Tech definitely had the resources to set everything off.

Phazael · Apr 17, 2024

Caliane The Muldover stuff is where the bulk of the flaws of the show and plot holes are concentrated. I hope they explain some of it in S2, but with the character being dead it seems unlikely. The biggest issue for me is her surviving as a non ghoul to the present time was never talked about. I cannot see the corp managers including her in their evil freezer rotation party, given what she was doing pre war.

As for the Raiders, remember that the founders of the NCR are mostly decendants of tribals from the region around Shady Sands when it was a tiny farm village and that it got nuked (presumably as part of the fall of the NCR) about a decade before the show starts. Its not really a stretch that the survivors of that group would wind up looking and acting a lot like Raiders. New Vegas is the best source of lore about NCR's long decline and they are already at odds with the BoS as early as FO2 in the lore.

Phazael · Apr 17, 2024

Harshaw said:
Well if Hank really did nuke or whatever Sandy Shores than Vault Tech definitely had the resources to set everything off.

Given the reactor tech the have, its pretty clear they would have the technical capability, especially if Robco, Poseidon Energy, ect were in cahoots with them.

Harshaw · Apr 17, 2024

Phazael said:
Caliane The Muldover stuff is where the bulk of the flaws of the show and plot holes are concentrated. I hope they explain some of it in S2, but with the character being dead it seems unlikely. The biggest issue for me is her surviving as a non ghoul to the present time was never talked about. I cannot see the corp managers including her in their evil freezer rotation party, given what she was doing pre war.

As for the Raiders, remember that the founders of the NCR are mostly decendants of tribals from the region around Shady Sands when it was a tiny farm village and that it got nuked (presumably as part of the fall of the NCR) about a decade before the show starts. Its not really a stretch that the survivors of that group would wind up looking and acting a lot like Raiders. New Vegas is the best source of lore about NCR's long decline and they are already at odds with the BoS as early as FO2 in the lore.

Muldover was rich af so she would have had the ability to cryo herself somewhere. I do agree that we could have used a little more info on all that. Like did she weasel into another company's vault and were there others cryo'd with her? I assume we'll get more info with The Ghoul flashbacks next season.

Cybsled · Apr 17, 2024

Caliane said:
there is.. but also isn't communication between the vaults? Did hank not notice no one was responding for 2 years?
muldover uses rose's pipboy to enter 32.

Presumably only the overseer would communicate. They estimated the people in Vault 32 had died about 2 years ago - presumably Vault 31 triggered some type of failsafe that resulted in everyone dying in Vault 32 after they revolted.

The only possible "plot hole" comes down to how often did the Vault 31 plants communicate with each other or with Vault 31. You could argue all the VT managers didn't know each other - Vault Tec was a pretty big company and they may have been frozen at different intervals, so that is why Hank wouldn't recognize Muldover.

If Vault communication was minimal, even amongst the Vault 31 people, then it is possible Hank and the other plants may not have been aware of what happened.

Bald Brah · Apr 17, 2024

Cybsled said:
Presumably only the overseer would communicate. They estimated the people in Vault 32 had died about 2 years ago - presumably Vault 31 triggered some type of failsafe that resulted in everyone dying in Vault 32 after they revolted.

The only possible "plot hole" comes down to how often did the Vault 31 plants communicate with each other or with Vault 31. You could argue all the VT managers didn't know each other - Vault Tec was a pretty big company and they may have been frozen at different intervals, so that is why Hank wouldn't recognize Muldover.

If Vault communication was minimal, even amongst the Vault 31 people, then it is possible Hank and the other plants may not have been aware of what happened.

What about the huge plot hole with zero security in vault 31. A little spider brain with a tranq dart is all the enclave have defending their frozen bodies? Seems pretty silly.

Harshaw · Apr 17, 2024

Bald Brah said:
What about the huge plot hole with zero security in vault 31. A little spider brain with a tranq dart is all the enclave have defending their frozen bodies? Seems pretty silly.

Well overconfidence is a Vault Tec trait. Plus, since this was was Bud's idea, he probably didn't foresee failure. I mean he could have put his brain in something better than a mouse droid for instance.

Rajaah · Apr 17, 2024

Cybsled said:
Brotherhood of Steel: Originally they were formed when Roger Maxson (part of US Army) had discovered some shit going on at WestTek and after the war. His original plan was to try to preserve as much knowledge and tech as possible, in the same vein as people who preserved knowledge after the fall of ancient Rome, and then use that to rebuild America. However, as the decades and centuries wore on, the original goal was somewhat corrupted by other people in leadership positions and they mostly just collected knowledge and tech to horde and keep to themselves and ultimately empower themselves. The East Coast BoS was originally an attempt to get back to Roger Maxson's vision, although that sort of fell apart after Elder Lyons died between the events of FO3 and FO4.

Enclave: Shadow government that existed before the war that thought of themselves as the true American government. They are effectively complicit in the destruction of the world and their ultimate goal was to retake the country after the war and rebuild America in their own vision. They worked with various corps like Vault Tec and WestTek.

Raiders: Just a catchall term for various gangs/tribes that exist in the wasteland. They're typically warlord driven/Mad Max badguy. They aren't really united and are effectively separate tribes, although sometimes you see alliances. Some take a long view (they would rather treat settlements as part of a fiefdom and have them pay tribute) and others are short sighted (aka the kill everyone/eat everyone mindset)

Alright, Enclave was the one I was most uncertain about. So they blew everything up on purpose to rebuild it after, makes a lot of sense. I'm guessing that's why Goggins dislikes those corporations so much, he realized when he was serving in the military that something was rotten in Denmark.

The post-Roman Empire knowledge preservation is an interesting parallel. TBH a lot of things about Fallout seem very realistic, or at least analogous to human history.

Wombat · Apr 17, 2024

Cryo tech is another lore aspect the show completely botches - Fallout 4 suggests the whole point of that Vault is to test the technology, yet Vault 31 has already deployed it in bulk (and presumably that's what Moldaver used), and if the ending credits are canonical, the Ultra-Luxe in Vegas has cryo beds advertised to the public pre-War?!?

Speaking of which, I haven't see a ton of commentary on the state of New Vegas - it arguably looks demolished to me, and definitely doesn't have any visible electricity. Again, my concern is Bethesda's canon is "One second after whatever ending you choose finished in the non-Bethesda games, Vault Tec nuked them".
(Even though Hank heading to Vegas implies Vault Tec's leadership might be / might have been there?!? I'm really hoping the long delay between seasons means they fine tune some of this writing.)

Caliane · Apr 17, 2024

remember, this is the Westworld guy... I wouldn't pin my hopes on s2 fixing its problems..

v32 being killed by v31 in a failsafe seems unlikely. as, v33 wasn't notified, and no immediate cleaning/replacement was done.

I wouldn't put it past them to have Muldovar be a special ghoul that looked mostly human. or had special face surgery.

Armadon · Apr 17, 2024

Caliane said:
remember, this is the Westworld guy... I wouldn't pin my hopes on s2 fixing its problems..

I was thinking the same thing. Each season got worse and worse and this follows the same style as westworld. Dude only knows how to write one way.

Caliane · Apr 17, 2024

Another thing to come back to. the "great plague of vault 33". "my mom died, my dad lost 120 lbs".
when exactly did this happen, and what caused it? exposure to outside is obviously likely. likelyhood here is directly tied to the bombing of shady sands.

Harshaw · Apr 17, 2024

Caliane said:
Another thing to come back to. the "great plague of vault 33". "my mom died, my dad lost 120 lbs".
when exactly did this happen, and what caused it? exposure to outside is obviously likely. likelyhood here is directly tied to the bombing of shady sands.

Yeah. Especially since we know that her Mom took Lucy and her brother out of the vault.

Cybsled · Apr 17, 2024

Lucy is an unreliable narrator for that bit of history, so we don’t know what is true or not

As for New Vegas, Bethesda has a strong aversion to “bad guys win” endings in Fallout. So who knows

Harshaw · Apr 17, 2024

Cybsled said:
Lucy is an unreliable narrator for that bit of history, so we don’t know what is true or not

As for New Vegas, Bethesda has a strong aversion to “bad guys win” endings in Fallout. So who knows

Muldaver was the one who told Lucy that. It just confirmed Lucy's faint memory. Also, her mother being a Ghoul right there lends some credibility to it. Also Hank not refuting anything Muldaver was saying.

Rajaah · Apr 17, 2024

"Communist is just a bad word they call the people who aren't insane"

Man, even the good shows have numerous little snippets of ideological propaganda slipping in.

It isn't the 1960's. In the modern era "fascist" seems to be much more frequently deployed against people who aren't insane / don't tow the government line.

DickTrickle · Apr 17, 2024

Rajaah said:
"Communist is just a bad word they call the people who aren't insane"

Man, even the good shows have numerous little snippets of ideological propaganda slipping in.

It isn't the 1960's. In the modern era "fascist" seems to be much more frequently deployed against people who aren't insane / don't tow the government line.

Except the entire pre-war era in the show is absolutely steeped in our 1950s. China is communist in the games and the US is in a painful, attrition filled war with them, so that's the game world's real world USSR proxy (they still existed in the game but were not a great power) and the red scare was a big deal back then. That label was used to repress those who didn't toe the line (as well as actual communists). This stance was in the game in many instances. So, yeah, using fascist would make way less sense and be more indicative of real world seeping through.

In the modern world, yeah, that's a joke statement, and it's hard to escape that, but it makes sense in the show/game world.

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