Fertilizer plant explodes in West, Texas
- Thread starter ronne
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Incorrect sir. There are many types of fertilizer. The commonality is usually a molecule containing Nitrogen or Potassium in a form ready for uptake by plants. This facility was supposed to store anhydrous ammonia or NH3. Anhydrous ammonia is stored as a pressurized liquid. If the pressure is ever released it quickly vaporizes. It is not super dangerous because it tends to disperse quickly and is hard to ignite. The plant would use this as a source to either make solid ammonium salts or as a water/ammonia solution for fertilization.
Ammonium Nitrate on the other hand is pretty dangerous. The formula is [NH4][NO3]. The big difference is the oxygen. Since a fire requires oxygen to combust, if you are storing the Ammonia (NH3) in a tank, there is little air for it to combust with. If the tank has a rupture the liquid will push out of it as a gas and not let oxygen into the tank to cause an explosion. Ammonium Nitrate, however, is a solid. It is stored in large bins or sacks with air all around. Heck, the thing that makes it dangerous IS the oxygen in the nitrate, because it can act as its' own oxidizer. It needs a fire or detonation source to get going though, which is what inspectors are going to be looking for.
I dont know which substance started burning first, but I imagine what occured was that one of theanhydrous tanks had a rupture and started burning. You can see how the wind in the video is pushing the fire along a straight vertical, which might be a tank gassing off ammonia. The firefighters would have no idea that they would need to be ammonium nitrate in the area that they needed to push the fire source away from, trusting in the other tanks to keep the rest of the anhydrous safe. Eventually some fire got to the ammonia causing the explosion seen to the left in the camera phone video and then blowing apart the anhydrous tanks o the right which are now exposed to a rushing mass of air and add to the explosion.
I think it is for when someone blows up something with fertilizer from this place, they can figure out where it came from in a hopes to track down the people responsible? As far as DHS is concerned.
No, but after 9/11 DHS got put in charge of ensuring that large stocks of hazardous chemicals were stored in secure facilities. Everything from ethanol to certain stores of metals to ammonium nitrate is on the list, with an threshold for notifying the DHS that you are in possession of.
Caliane
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Anhydrous ammonia makes ammonium nitrate. If a fertilizer factory has Anhydrous ammonia, they are making ammonium nitrate. If its a depot for supplying farmer, its going to ahve ammonium nitrate, becuase farmers don't use ammonia itself.
NH3+HNO3 -->NH4NO3
Plants use NPK as the 3 macro nutrients. Nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium
Urea, and ammonium nitrate are the two primary sources of nitrogen.
I am well aware ammonium nitrate is dangerous. but it is also the majority incredibly common as a fertilizer. I want to say vast majority, but that might not be true. Urea is very high in nitrogen. too much in many cases, so its used less. Being shocked that its present is stupid. Its like being shocked there is water in a lake. Every farm, greenhouse, lowes, homedepot will have palettes of the stuff.
Eomer
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I did read the article, what about it is misleading in the context of my post? I wasn't insinuating that it is the DHS's responsibility to inform fire departments of dangerous industrial operations in their area. I frankly don't know the mechanics of how a fire department would go about collecting that information. I just think it would be pretty self evident that most fire departments would maintain some sort of inventory of those kinds of things in their area, and have contingency plans to deal with incidents at them, whether outright fires or other chemical releases, spills etc. Otherwise they'd pretty much be suicidal in responding to any fires at industrial facilities by going in blind.
Borzak
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I live and work in the chemical corridor between Baton Rouge and New Orleans where there are approximately 90 chemical plants and refineries in about 70 river miles and for the most part the fire departments aren't even allowed inside a plant in case of an emergency especially a release. Every plant I've ever been in has it's own fire fighting personal and equipment and normally is much better trained than the local one, especially in the smaller towns. I'm not sure in a small plant like the one that went up there in West. I know the Baton Rouge FD trains with the Exxon fire department but I'm not sure they have ever been allowed inside the plant.
OneofOne
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You're right, you would think local firehouses would have knowledge of additional dangers in their area of responsibility. I don't disagree that this is logical. However I was speaking within the context that informing the DHS would some how make a difference in whether said firefighters had that knowledge or not. Since you responded to that train of thought, it seemed safe to assume you were disagreeing with me on that point. Apparently you do agree.
The fact the firefighters showed up at all makes me wonder if the plant mislead anyone - OSHA, the city, what? Or were they responding to a fire they knew they shouldn't have?
Big Phoenix
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Adebisi
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Brad2770
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Borzak
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They first said it was someone welding at the plant, but then I never heard anything about it. I know from the work I do fires break out at the larger facilities all the time but are relatively small, normally from a welder, grinder, someone drilling or a piece of equipment that catches fire due to an electrical problem. All the plants I have ever been in have extinguishers every 20 feet at least and OSHA requires a fire watch person with an air horn, high visibility clothing, and an extinguisher that is not the one normally stationed there on them at all times when people in engaged in those type of activities. I get the yearly safety reports from several of the facilities and trains seem to account for a high number of fires from either the wheels or sparks when loading or unloading. Moving that much equipment around inside of ducts, piping etc...I assume makes a pretty good chunk of static electricity. A small gasoline terminal (not a refinery) had a pretty massive fire a couple of years ago from a static discharge involving a vehicle.
So basically could be anything as you probably already guessed.
So basically could be anything as you probably already guessed.
Hekotat
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It's actually the companies responsibility to provide local fire department with a list of all dangers at your plant in Texas, also, stop being a stereotyping piece of shit.
Gavinmad
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Hekotat
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I'm not angry, I'm a very happy go lucky kind of person and so are most of my friends. We also have our douchebags, rednecks and retards just like the rest of the world.
Saying your geographical region is less accident prone than the rest of us is just comical, shortcuts are always taken and mistakes will always be made, we are human and it's going to happen regardless of where you are.
My boss just went to the local fire department about a month back and discussed what to do and what not to do in certain emergency situations, from the way he made it sound this was required by the state.
Saying your geographical region is less accident prone than the rest of us is just comical, shortcuts are always taken and mistakes will always be made, we are human and it's going to happen regardless of where you are.
My boss just went to the local fire department about a month back and discussed what to do and what not to do in certain emergency situations, from the way he made it sound this was required by the state.
Big Phoenix
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