Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)
- Thread starter Guzrog
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I kind of don't want the 13th to just get tied up in just patch content. This patch had a decent amount of MSQ and I like that they're adding small set pieces outside of the 6 zones we got at 6.0 launch, but if we somehow tie up the entire 13th story in just 6.X patch content it'll seem pretty quick.
Chris
Potato del Grande
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You gotta remember that it's a vanilla storyline though, we've been fighting voidsent the entire time - especially in Realm Reborn and Heavensward.
We already killed the Ascian responsible and the Cloud of Darkness.
I can't wait to see what happens though. Not seen anyone post that Zero = Zeromus yet, so I'm claiming that theory as mine!
We already killed the Ascian responsible and the Cloud of Darkness.
I can't wait to see what happens though. Not seen anyone post that Zero = Zeromus yet, so I'm claiming that theory as mine!
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Even being an ARR storyline, it's the most interesting of the remaining shards (although obviously they'll do at least one more as another expansion at some point), so I wouldn't want to go through it all that quickly. I'm not getting that vibe from Zero character, and that would be kind of taking the FF4 nod way too far, imo, but we'll see.
Folanlron
Trakanon Raider
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they are building it up I don't think restoring the 13th is goin too be a "short" task, my guess by the end of the patch content we will "start" too bring light back too the world, but with Golbez also talking about "The Gates" has me a little confused... I don't think Zero is Zeromus, I honestly think she is Cecil and Rosa's daughter(We know they had a son from After Years but after that nothing.)....
Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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If the 13th is focus of all the 6.X patch content AND another expansion...then that might almost get into too much time spent there category. Which I know sounds silly after I just said only handling it in the 6.X content is too short, but yeah. That's an interesting theory on Zero...I'm kind of in the mindset that Golbez and the 4 fiends (plus some of the dungeon music, etc) is all the FF4 nods we really need/might be getting. Going much further than that would be taking it all further than any of the other FF entries have gotten as far as links/nods.
Folanlron
Trakanon Raider
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4 is the posterchild for Final Fantasy, after the Return to Ivalice Raids, and the Bozja stories(Which are both FFT, and FF12 I mean fuck they even talk about Basch in the story),
I don't see a reason why not, but even Y'shtola said there is a chance it won't work, sense the 13 didn't have the Oracle show up and tell the wave too fuck right off..
Chris
Potato del Grande
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Crystal Tower was FF3's entire final dungeon and endboss. So I think it's going to be similar to that just for FF4. The Omega raid used the final FF5 dungeon and final bosses too. Let's not foget whatever the fuck Ivalice/Bozja is in relation to FF12.
It's not actually the FF4 world though, just like the Ivalice raids were not the FFT/FF12 world.
They may very well reuse names like Cecil and Rosa though.
They may very well reuse names like Cecil and Rosa though.
Let me lay out what's going to happen and my evidence, each time I think about this I find more:
So when we are fighting Scarligmone and the minions keep coming back, I was waiting for Y'Shtola to say "Zero your payment is going to be absorbing these souls we killed so that they don't come back." But they didn't do that even though it's functionally the same thing and instead gave us two complicated and totally unnessesary bits of lore:
1) Some people had the power to turn voidsent into crystals, Zero apparently being the last able to use it because of her complicated birth.
2) Absorbing souls merges your being with your victim, so Zero doesn't want to do it. They then go out of their way to demonstrate this with the two weak voidsent in her domain and one "feeling" the presence of the other.
Then they had to go back and explain how this doesn't retcon the Cloud of Darkness raid, CoD probably just got eaten while regenerating and vulnerable. It was inconvenient to add this lore. So the very fact that this stuff is in the story means that it's going to be important somehow.
Also the soul merging thing is a thematic link to Endsinger, as that's actually what happened to the Meteions "I communed with the spirits of the deceased, took their shadowed hearts into my own". Are we really going to start an expansion by fighting the incarnation of the universe's despair, then end with fighting some guy in black armour? Every expansion so far had us fight a secondary antagonist similar to the main one in the patch content for the "true" ending (Nidhogg - also had both eyes, Yotsuyu - also turned into a Primal, Elidibus - also an Ascian). Zeromus would fit fight in - also an amalgamation of souls and look at the boss arena... look familiar?
So yeah, for some reason, Zero will absorb all these crystals and transform. It may be involuntary like how we fought Gaia in the Eden raids. It may be after a revelation about her past (like Zidane in FF9, the penultimate Ultima Thule quest is named "You are not alone" after that FF9 event ). I'd say that Golbez would be the one absorbing but the name thing is too much of a coincidence.
Also one of the FF4 remakes has a bonus boss which is the Four Fiends and Golbez combined called Geryon - this is already a concept - and seems like a good way to replace the FF4 Zemus moon person backstory which doesn't fit into FF14 as we already did the moon.
Also also the name of the crystal power is "Memoria" which is the final dungeon of FF9 and Endsinger is an out of nowhere boss similar to how Necron was in FF9. They already referenced FF9 in Ultima Thule as I said above.
6.3 - Cagnazzo+Rubicante's domains dungeon with Cagnazzo dungeon Boss. Rubicante trial. Alliance raid part 2.
6.4 - Golbez's domain dungeon with Shadow Dragon dungeon boss. Golbez trial. Pandaemonium raid part 3.
6.5 - Memoria dungeon with Zero dungeon boss. Zeromus trial. Alliance raid part 3.
That's our 5 expansion dungeons and one trial per patch accounted for.
1) Some people had the power to turn voidsent into crystals, Zero apparently being the last able to use it because of her complicated birth.
2) Absorbing souls merges your being with your victim, so Zero doesn't want to do it. They then go out of their way to demonstrate this with the two weak voidsent in her domain and one "feeling" the presence of the other.
Then they had to go back and explain how this doesn't retcon the Cloud of Darkness raid, CoD probably just got eaten while regenerating and vulnerable. It was inconvenient to add this lore. So the very fact that this stuff is in the story means that it's going to be important somehow.
Also the soul merging thing is a thematic link to Endsinger, as that's actually what happened to the Meteions "I communed with the spirits of the deceased, took their shadowed hearts into my own". Are we really going to start an expansion by fighting the incarnation of the universe's despair, then end with fighting some guy in black armour? Every expansion so far had us fight a secondary antagonist similar to the main one in the patch content for the "true" ending (Nidhogg - also had both eyes, Yotsuyu - also turned into a Primal, Elidibus - also an Ascian). Zeromus would fit fight in - also an amalgamation of souls and look at the boss arena... look familiar?
So yeah, for some reason, Zero will absorb all these crystals and transform. It may be involuntary like how we fought Gaia in the Eden raids. It may be after a revelation about her past (like Zidane in FF9, the penultimate Ultima Thule quest is named "You are not alone" after that FF9 event ). I'd say that Golbez would be the one absorbing but the name thing is too much of a coincidence.
Also one of the FF4 remakes has a bonus boss which is the Four Fiends and Golbez combined called Geryon - this is already a concept - and seems like a good way to replace the FF4 Zemus moon person backstory which doesn't fit into FF14 as we already did the moon.
Also also the name of the crystal power is "Memoria" which is the final dungeon of FF9 and Endsinger is an out of nowhere boss similar to how Necron was in FF9. They already referenced FF9 in Ultima Thule as I said above.
6.3 - Cagnazzo+Rubicante's domains dungeon with Cagnazzo dungeon Boss. Rubicante trial. Alliance raid part 2.
6.4 - Golbez's domain dungeon with Shadow Dragon dungeon boss. Golbez trial. Pandaemonium raid part 3.
6.5 - Memoria dungeon with Zero dungeon boss. Zeromus trial. Alliance raid part 3.
That's our 5 expansion dungeons and one trial per patch accounted for.
Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Maybe, but my theory is
I think 6.3 is a given in terms of what you predicted. However, for 6.4 and 6.5, if my "Golbez =Xande" idea holds to be true...
I don't think Zero will become Zeromus. Or if they do, it won't be a permanent thing. They've pointed out she is half mortal, half voidsent so that suggests she is subject to a different set of rules. For instance, she has the ability to obtain ether from food and the air while in the Source like normal people are able to. I think she will factor into whatever "save the 13th" story they eventually decide to settle on, like sort of a Ryne or Ardbert character. The later especially if she turns out to be a fragment of Azem. Despite her protestations, she has demonstrated she is willing to take in weak voidsent and protect them, which is at odds with normal voidsent behavior. One component of Azem is they basically made friends/allies everywhere, so take of that as you will.
The one thing they mentioned is the plot for the 7.X xpac will not become apparent until the 6.5x patch series. That means that the big reveal will occur during that time, so it is reasonable to assume that 6.3 and 6.4 will continue with the current storyline of trying to find Vtra's sister and Golbez. That means it is likely that we accomplish this by the time of 6.4 and that the current storyline, as presented, is presumably not the main focus of 7.X. So that suggests it will not take place on the 13th (or at least not primarily). That being said, it also wouldn't make a large amount of sense to wrap up everything by 6.4 and in 6.5 be all "now for something completely different".
Since the next xpac will be a large story that could potentially span more than 1 expansion, they really need something that has a lot of potential to mine for story. That is why I think the "Golbez = Xande" is very likely.
1) EW focused a lot of Xande, either directly or via Fandaniel/Amon's obsession with Xande's nihilism. Xande's main concern was that he would die and his empire would crumble and all his deeds would be for not. The 6.2 patch revealed that you are functionally immortal in the 13th if your essence isn't devoured.
2) Xande is known to have been trying to make a bargain with the Cloud of Darkness and it was in fact this interaction with the 13th that caused the 3rd calamity. Xande is presumed to have died, but we later fight "him" in the 2nd CT raid. However, EW revealed that Amon had the ability to make various clones, so they could wave away the Xande fight by revealing it was just another clone
3) Golbez in the flashback seems to both know what a dragon is AND how to capture them. The other void sent did not. This suggests Golbez had knowledge pertaining to this, which aligns with Allagan knowledge (how to capture/enslave dragons and their power potential)
My theory on what happens:
1) In 6.5X, Golbez is revealed to be Xande. Or Xande in part. They pointed out that absorbing essence can dilute self, or alter it. So kind of like how Fandaniel was dysfunctional from being both Amon and Fandaniel, maybe there is something similar at play here.
2) The crusade and "gateway" is his plan to invade the Source and revive the Allagan Empire, with him serving as an immortal god emperor. Or some twisted version of it. There is still enough active Allagan tech and locations to accomplish this and as the actual Xande, he will both have the ability to command it and know how to use it
3) 6.5X will end with Golbez/Xande succeeding and establishing a beachhead in the Source. With the Empire in tatters and people still recovering from the Final Days, no one is able to successfully counter the might of a voidsent+allagan threat. I could even see CT/Mor dhona fall. They've already cleared out the Scions from the Rising Stones. Imagine if 6.5X ended with the town and the old base in complete ruins.
4) 7.X has us trying to counter this unsuccessfully, with us eventually turning to Mericydia and the Dragons for assistance (essentially a 2nd Dragon vs. Allagan war). I also guess Graha loses his "royal eye". They dropped this nugget in ShB that his royal eye will eventually fade, so I presume they will use that plot point to explain why he can no longer access the Crystal Tower or other Allagan tech and thus raise the stakes.
I don't think Zero will become Zeromus. Or if they do, it won't be a permanent thing. They've pointed out she is half mortal, half voidsent so that suggests she is subject to a different set of rules. For instance, she has the ability to obtain ether from food and the air while in the Source like normal people are able to. I think she will factor into whatever "save the 13th" story they eventually decide to settle on, like sort of a Ryne or Ardbert character. The later especially if she turns out to be a fragment of Azem. Despite her protestations, she has demonstrated she is willing to take in weak voidsent and protect them, which is at odds with normal voidsent behavior. One component of Azem is they basically made friends/allies everywhere, so take of that as you will.
The one thing they mentioned is the plot for the 7.X xpac will not become apparent until the 6.5x patch series. That means that the big reveal will occur during that time, so it is reasonable to assume that 6.3 and 6.4 will continue with the current storyline of trying to find Vtra's sister and Golbez. That means it is likely that we accomplish this by the time of 6.4 and that the current storyline, as presented, is presumably not the main focus of 7.X. So that suggests it will not take place on the 13th (or at least not primarily). That being said, it also wouldn't make a large amount of sense to wrap up everything by 6.4 and in 6.5 be all "now for something completely different".
Since the next xpac will be a large story that could potentially span more than 1 expansion, they really need something that has a lot of potential to mine for story. That is why I think the "Golbez = Xande" is very likely.
1) EW focused a lot of Xande, either directly or via Fandaniel/Amon's obsession with Xande's nihilism. Xande's main concern was that he would die and his empire would crumble and all his deeds would be for not. The 6.2 patch revealed that you are functionally immortal in the 13th if your essence isn't devoured.
2) Xande is known to have been trying to make a bargain with the Cloud of Darkness and it was in fact this interaction with the 13th that caused the 3rd calamity. Xande is presumed to have died, but we later fight "him" in the 2nd CT raid. However, EW revealed that Amon had the ability to make various clones, so they could wave away the Xande fight by revealing it was just another clone
3) Golbez in the flashback seems to both know what a dragon is AND how to capture them. The other void sent did not. This suggests Golbez had knowledge pertaining to this, which aligns with Allagan knowledge (how to capture/enslave dragons and their power potential)
My theory on what happens:
1) In 6.5X, Golbez is revealed to be Xande. Or Xande in part. They pointed out that absorbing essence can dilute self, or alter it. So kind of like how Fandaniel was dysfunctional from being both Amon and Fandaniel, maybe there is something similar at play here.
2) The crusade and "gateway" is his plan to invade the Source and revive the Allagan Empire, with him serving as an immortal god emperor. Or some twisted version of it. There is still enough active Allagan tech and locations to accomplish this and as the actual Xande, he will both have the ability to command it and know how to use it
3) 6.5X will end with Golbez/Xande succeeding and establishing a beachhead in the Source. With the Empire in tatters and people still recovering from the Final Days, no one is able to successfully counter the might of a voidsent+allagan threat. I could even see CT/Mor dhona fall. They've already cleared out the Scions from the Rising Stones. Imagine if 6.5X ended with the town and the old base in complete ruins.
4) 7.X has us trying to counter this unsuccessfully, with us eventually turning to Mericydia and the Dragons for assistance (essentially a 2nd Dragon vs. Allagan war). I also guess Graha loses his "royal eye". They dropped this nugget in ShB that his royal eye will eventually fade, so I presume they will use that plot point to explain why he can no longer access the Crystal Tower or other Allagan tech and thus raise the stakes.
- 1
Chris
Potato del Grande
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Golbez wants to invade for sure.
I don't buy Golbez = Xande, why change his name? Especially when they are both established characters from different old FF games.
The Xande we know from CT is a clone that Amon made, real Xande died before Amon's time and Amon brought him back to stop The Empire being weak and decadent. How clones interact with souls we don't know... it could have been real Xande's soul in it.
Then we also fight another Xande clone as a mini boss in the World of Darkness raid... now THAT Xande should be an immortal voidsent if it has a soul... he could have reformed and eaten Cloud of Darkness. So that could back up your theory.
Another link is that Xande invaded Mercydia with voidsent and Azdaja sealed a void portal there, so maybe Golbez wants to reopen that portal and the void invasion expansion would be on that continent? Golbez could know about dragons if he fought as a voidsent in the Allagan invasion, maybe he's the one that killed Bahamut?
The invasion is certaintly possible, if we don't fight Rubicante next patch then that'll take another trial slot and we could have a Shadow Dragon/Azdaja trial the patch after - making dealing with Golbez in a later expansion more likely.
Another thing I was thinking about is that while Zero could be the 13th Azem fragment, she could be have been merged with something else by Fandaniel to make her into Xenos' voidsent. Maybe even a fragment of Fandaniel so we can fight him in a 4th form lol.
I don't buy Golbez = Xande, why change his name? Especially when they are both established characters from different old FF games.
The Xande we know from CT is a clone that Amon made, real Xande died before Amon's time and Amon brought him back to stop The Empire being weak and decadent. How clones interact with souls we don't know... it could have been real Xande's soul in it.
Then we also fight another Xande clone as a mini boss in the World of Darkness raid... now THAT Xande should be an immortal voidsent if it has a soul... he could have reformed and eaten Cloud of Darkness. So that could back up your theory.
Another link is that Xande invaded Mercydia with voidsent and Azdaja sealed a void portal there, so maybe Golbez wants to reopen that portal and the void invasion expansion would be on that continent? Golbez could know about dragons if he fought as a voidsent in the Allagan invasion, maybe he's the one that killed Bahamut?
The invasion is certaintly possible, if we don't fight Rubicante next patch then that'll take another trial slot and we could have a Shadow Dragon/Azdaja trial the patch after - making dealing with Golbez in a later expansion more likely.
Another thing I was thinking about is that while Zero could be the 13th Azem fragment, she could be have been merged with something else by Fandaniel to make her into Xenos' voidsent. Maybe even a fragment of Fandaniel so we can fight him in a 4th form lol.
Chris
Potato del Grande
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Merrith
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I think you're stretching a bit Chris.
Not all those secondary bosses in the patch content were created equal. Nidhogg was always the real endboss of HW, Yotsu just doesn't compare to Zenos, even as a primal. Also while Zeromus was a thing, it wasn't named Zero prior, but Zemus. I do agree that we will obviously fight the remaining 2 fiends, although not sure if they will do another dungeon/trial combo like they did this time around, or stretch them out as 2 trials over 6.3 and 6.4. Cyb's theory sounds pretty solid in broad strokes for how this could all lead to a big event in 6.5. No idea if he'll turn out to be Xande or some sort of twisted version of him, though. Could be Golbez is just another pawn (just like he was in FF4, if we really want to go harder on that story tie in), and the real new big bad behind him gets revealed in 6.5 leading into whatever the 7.0 story will be.
Have they confirmed in any way that they are going to be setting up another big multi expansion story arc for 7.0 and beyond? I could see the next expansion just focus on smaller more contained story like HW was while laying some threads that will eventually lead into the next bigger story for 8.0 -> 10.0.
Have they confirmed in any way that they are going to be setting up another big multi expansion story arc for 7.0 and beyond? I could see the next expansion just focus on smaller more contained story like HW was while laying some threads that will eventually lead into the next bigger story for 8.0 -> 10.0.