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Kaines

Kaines

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Mist said:
My point is that most companies and most products fail. But people only pick up on the failures that align with their agenda. That's how confirmation bias works.

My other point is that a certain kind of reactionary constantly picks up on the new three-syllable-thing to hate. It's a weirdly specific pattern. It's like the "I support the current thing" meme reversed.

Specifically to the point, and I've said this at least once before, I do not think that companies should hire outside consultants to score their products for diversity. If your organization is so culturally broken that you need an outside consultant to curse/bless your organization like some kind of cultic priest, you've got big problems and that money is better spent within. It's not that diversity is bullshit, it's that consultants are bullshit.

But simply put, eventually an industry runs out of available white male autists and has to find as many other kinds of autists as possible if you're going to grow your autism-powered organization. My actual opinions about DEI are more complex, and generally align with Marc Cuban's rather epic argument to Elon Musk on Twitter a few months ago: companies with more diverse boards and senior management generally tend to do better over the long term, and this can be easily proven with statistics. Broadly, tech companies had very rapid development growth during the same period of time that diversity was a big push. Technology accelerated very rapidly in the span of time that diversity in STEM has been incentivized. That is correlation, not causation, but one can certainly make an argument.

For gaming, things are a bit different. The best games are developed by teams of <25 people, often a core team of <5 people. 2-Pizza-sized development teams, in the parlance of one John Carmack and adopted later by Jeff Bezos. DEI pushes largely happen in factory-farm corporate studios that have 300+ duhvelopers on a project, hiring cohorts of 10 programmers at a time and hoping 1 of them is good enough to complete the AGILE-SCRUM-STORY-BOARD-JIRA-TICKET-NONSENSE. Indies can do whatever the fuck they want. If you want to make Black Queer Dad Dating Simulator and not hire any white people, I don't give a shit, the Steam charts will gladly figure that problem out for you.
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What Marc Cuban forgot is that the diversity those boards saw was organically generated by looking for the most competent people REGARDLESS of race/ethnilcity/sexual orientation, etc. You know what the Civil Right Law was ALL ABOUT. When FORCED to meet diversity quotas through DEI, companies QUICKLY deteriate in both quality and competency. This can ALSO be shown through statistics. So fuck you, you ignorant whore.
 
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Kaines

Kaines

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Mist said:
Prove it.
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Mist said:
My actual opinions about DEI are more complex, and generally align with Marc Cuban's rather epic argument to Elon Musk on Twitter a few months ago: companies with more diverse boards and senior management generally tend to do better over the long term, and this can be easily proven with statistics. Broadly, tech companies had very rapid development growth during the same period of time that diversity was a big push. Technology accelerated very rapidly in the span of time that diversity in STEM has been incentivized. That is correlation, not causation, but one can certainly make an argument.
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Fuck you, you first.
 
Mist

Mist

REEEEeyore
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Seananigans said:
Those hoofbeats are definitely zebras, guys.

Mist Mist do you have the obvious statistical backup for your claim of diversifying ownership and boardship definitely leading to better outcomes? I am skeptical as fuck.
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Kaines said:
Fuck you, you first.
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I'm going off data and arguments from someone who has funded literally over 1000 startups as their fulltime job. That's what VCs do, they fund startups knowing that 17 out of every 20 will fail and disappear into oblivion, 2 will break even and hope the 20th pays off bigly. I am not going to argue with someone who does this as their job. Feel free.

Home - Mark Cuban Companies

markcubancompanies.com markcubancompanies.com
 
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Kaines

Kaines

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Mist said:
I'm going off data and arguments from someone who has funded literally over 1000 startups as their fulltime job. That's what VCs do, they fund startups knowing that 17 out of every 20 will fail and disappear into oblivion, 2 will break even and hope the 20th pays off bigly. I am not going to argue with someone who does this as their job. Feel free.

Home - Mark Cuban Companies

markcubancompanies.com markcubancompanies.com
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So you have ZERO evidence other than Cuban's anectodal evidence? Is that what passes for "proof" around here? Careful with your answer.
 
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Denamian

Denamian

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All of you GTFO of here with you whining about DEI and take it to the gamergate thread.
 
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Kirun

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
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Denamian said:
All of you GTFO of here with you whining about DEI and take it to the gamergate thread.
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Here comes Dad to ruin the fun...

Schitts Creek Party GIF by CBC
 
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Zindan

Zindan

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Kaines said:
What Marc Cuban forgot is that the diversity those boards saw was organically generated by looking for the most competent people REGARDLESS of race/ethnilcity/sexual orientation, etc. You know what the Civil Right Law was ALL ABOUT. When FORCED to meet diversity quotas through DEI, companies QUICKLY deteriate in both quality and competency. This can ALSO be shown through statistics. So fuck you, you ignorant whore.
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This is correct.
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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Kirun said:
I think the broader question is whether DEI contributes and doesn't contribute to a company going under, what the fuck do you care? If it's truly the cause of some horrific malady in the gaming space, the market will clearly show that to them. As it seems to already be doing with so many "AAA" games completely losing their ass recently.

It's almost like if you make a good game, people won't give a fuck. DEI won't make a bad game good, but it won't make a good game bad either. Players just want good fucking games - simple.
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Horrific malady? Why can't you make arguements that aren't hyperbolic and exaggerated in scope and language?

On a gaming forum in the gaming threads people care about gaming and the gaming industry. That shouldn't be a surprise, but you keep trying to fit basic notions like that into your world view that everyone is freaking out and raving lunatics as you're the same voice of reason. Why does your self esteem need that boost?

And your sage wisdom is people want good games. Right after you shrug off the industry experiencing a market correction that has seen the biggest, best funded studios shitting the bed and thus shitting up the industry.

People want good games, and DEI doesn't seem to be helping that happen, at best, and us hurting that potential, at worst. At least that's what people believe, and until you or anyone else defending DEI* can produce an argument DEI doesn't hurt gaming the most rational thing is to continuing believing it.

*To be fair, you aren't defending DEI. Once you saw forum opinion take a shift you seem to have gotten a hard on for pretending you're the voice of reason going against the flow of zealots, when really you're just a contrarian asshole looking for a very edgy arguement you insist on having whether others are in the argument or not.
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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Mist said:
I'm going off data and arguments from someone who has funded literally over 1000 startups as their fulltime job. That's what VCs do, they fund startups knowing that 17 out of every 20 will fail and disappear into oblivion, 2 will break even and hope the 20th pays off bigly. I am not going to argue with someone who does this as their job. Feel free.

Home - Mark Cuban Companies

markcubancompanies.com markcubancompanies.com
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Wow, tough business. Seems like they should focus as many resources into the actual business and not hiring and virtue signalling based on demographics to appease outside social justice advocates.
 
Ossoi

Ossoi

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Kaines said:
So you have ZERO evidence other than Cuban's anectodal evidence? Is that what passes for "proof" around here? Careful with your answer.
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ackshually, looks more like an appeal to authority fallacy
 
popsicledeath

popsicledeath

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Denamian said:
All of you GTFO of here with you whining about DEI and take it to the gamergate thread.
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I didn't see this. Please let me explain my replies... Seems pretty relevant, so stop being a whiny cunt about topics you don't like, or worse because a bunch of faggots report shit.

Guys, DEI isn't happening, but keep all discussions of it happing in garbage dumping ground threads so the deniers don't have to acknowledge it's happening.
 
Denamian

Denamian

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popsicledeath said:
I didn't see this. Please let me explain my replies... Seems pretty relevant, so stop being a whiny cunt about topics you don't like, or worse because a bunch of faggots report shit.

Guys, DEI isn't happening, but keep all discussions of it happing in garbage dumping ground threads so the deniers don't have to acknowledge it's happening.
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I don't give a fuck. We have a thread for this discussion. GG used to be in the gaming section but it got moved to the PCC because people were tired of the triggered culture warriors shitting things up.
 
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Kaines

Kaines

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Denamian said:
I don't give a fuck. We have a thread for this discussion. GG used to be in the gaming section but it got moved to the PCC because people were tired of the triggered culture warriors shitting things up.
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People who are triggered by a discussion calling others triggered. Peak 2024.
 
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Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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If it's specifically about didn't earn it in gaming I'll talk about it in here and fuck any American Inventor lover who tells me otherwise. That gay ass slapfight earlier ended up being about Mist's loneliness and didn't earn it in general and this isn't the place for that.

Kirun said:
DEI won't make a bad game good
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Sophistry. The people pushing it are the same people who generally lack the creativity to create an engaging story those whose programming didn't overwrite their imagination still typically can't resist the compulsion to prioritize pushing 'the message' ahead of telling an engaging story.
 
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