Ghost of Yōtei

Szlia said:

What is X in your scenario? Because if it was feudal Japan, it's still here. If it was an original time and place in feudal Japan, it's still here. If it was sword fighting and open'ish world, for all we know, it's still here. If it was technological mastery and good art direction, it's very likely to still be here. If it was good writing and an engaging story, it also very likely to still be here since it's made by the same people. So what is X? The main character was a man and now it's a woman? It was historically accurate/believable and now it no longer is? Except 1) who cares? 2) it most likely still is about as accurate as the first game (as in: accurate enough to anchor the story).

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Now do TLoU 2. I think that still had infected, but hard to tell between the tranny golf sessions

mkopec said:

I mean we all know its fiction, right? But to make a sort of "based on history and local folklore" game like this, you know, about feudal japan? Why the fuck try to shoehorn some bullshit in there that does not belong or even make sense? Same shit with the UBI game where they try to shoehorn a black dude into the same setting. Its just cringe worthy. These same fucking cunts are lamenting about cultural appropriation, well WTF do you think they are doing here? Maybe not appropriating it, but damn sure taking a big ole steaming shit on it.

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In a sense it is appropriation because they are trying to rewrite it and establish themselves in it.

Making a woman a Ronin during the Edo period in Japan is like making a woman a Knight in King James I of England's court.

I would be surprised if women were ever allowed to be Samurai (to then fall into Ronen) in Japanese history. As far as I can tell, the female warriors linked above were not close to having the same honor-bound duties, freedoms, and obligations a Samurai had.

I know the first game had an "old" lady warrior wielding a Katana, but did they ever call her a Samurai or did the game always stick to her putting on her husband's armor to avenge him after her family was killed? Even then, it might still be insulting to Japanese history. Since didn't they put great spiritual value on their armor and who could actually wear it without dishonoring a plethora of people? Which would be a big deal in maybe the most "death before dishonor" culture that has ever existed.

Burns said:

I know the first game had an "old" lady warrior wielding a Katana, but did they ever call her a Samurai or did the game always stick to her putting on her husband's armor to avenge him after her family was killed?

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A story like that would work. Great motivation, a reason to start at lv1 and a reason why enemies have more HP than you.

The writing has to be right though.

Burns One of the main thing japanese samurai and european knights have in common is that their popular and romanticized versions obfuscate their historical complexities. What the word samurai meant changed dramatically over the centuries of japanese feudalism. The warrior codes were also many and varied. Mythologizing the past is not a recent invention and is pretty universal, so even the fantasized version of the samurai changed over time. In fact one could argue that the formalization of the warriors code that happened during the Tokugawa shogunate (so after both Ghost games) is already an exercise in mythologization, manufacturing a single ancestral tradition out of a multitude.

While it can be seen as problematic to have a non-japanese dev team create a game about japanese history, it gives them an edge in the sense they are more easily free of the tropes and canons of this type of stories. I mean, I have seen dozens and dozens of japanese period films and I can't think of one dealing with korean invasions. Also can't think of one where ainu people play a predominant part, as it is likely to happen in Ghost of Yotei. At minima, I can't think of a film that takes place in Hokkaido in 1600, when it's the blurry frontier of the empire.

maybe in this game you don't actually fight, you just have to make dumplings and sweep the floors and fold the laundry

Szlia said:

Burns One of the main thing japanese samurai and european knights have in common is that their popular and romanticized versions obfuscate their historical complexities. What the word samurai meant changed dramatically over the centuries of japanese feudalism. The warrior codes were also many and varied. Mythologizing the past is not a recent invention and is pretty universal, so even the fantasized version of the samurai changed over time. In fact one could argue that the formalization of the warriors code that happened during the Tokugawa shogunate (so after both Ghost games) is already an exercise in mythologization, manufacturing a single ancestral tradition out of a multitude.

While it can be seen as problematic to have a non-japanese dev team create a game about japanese history, it gives them an edge in the sense they are more easily free of the tropes and canons of this type of stories. I mean, I have seen dozens and dozens of japanese period films and I can't think of one dealing with korean invasions. Also can't think of one where ainu people play a predominant part, as it is likely to happen in Ghost of Yotei. At minima, I can't think of a film that takes place in Hokkaido in 1600, when it's the blurry frontier of the empire.

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Yes, I read the wiki on Samurai as well. Nothing there lead me to believe, during the time period of the first game or this new one, Samurai were anything more than landed noble males set up to administrate fiefdoms and be called to war when their lord requests it, along with their lesser unlanded nobles (retinues), just like European Knights (nobility). That is not a job that would ever be given to women, just because of how the social structure works. It even seems easier for Japanese lords to take away lands from lesser samurai under them and give it to another. Just like Europe, I would guess that large fiefdoms and titles may have had women "ruling" the fiefdom while their son comes of age, but that's about it.

I'm not a weeb and could give a fuck about Japanese media (other than Kurosawa, blessed be his name). In fact I dislike the vast majority of the Japanese made games I tried playing and am very particular about the anime I have seen. I also found the first Ghost game to be mediocre and quit after the first castle (freeing the father). Still, I am interested in history and misrepresenting history pisses all over everyone, including the people who "suffered" through the ridged social structures imposed upon them.

If you want to learn about Japan's misadventure into Korea HERE is a good video on it; no need to wait/rely on movies or games to change things for artistic reasons. HERE is a short one on the Mongol's misadventures in Japan and HERE is a short one on Nobunaga, slightly before this new game is to take place. Also, here are three 20 min videos focusing on battles Nobunaga fought: HERE, HERE, and HERE.