GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Olebass said:

For me it isn't the attention to detail as much as the lack of it. Many things and details provided that were painstakingly shown in previous seasons are just missing now.
I've said it before and I get it. Time and budget. Doesn't mean I don't have the right to complain about it on a forum message board however.

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That's what I meant, a sloppiness in attention to detail. Just a lot glossing over and forgetting stuff or showing something that has a dramatic effect without caring about the storyline ramifications.

Punko said:

oh noes, there is no character development in the next to last season

the dialogue at the start of S7 finale entertained me a lot, on the upside you can stop watching and stop posting about the show, perhaps that will bring you relief?

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except character development NEVER ends. right up until lord vader saves his son from palpetine at the end of the SW trilogy.

News the final season was cancelled would be hilarious. GoT is the story of blue balls.

while subpar to how this started, I'm getting some fucking resolution to a story I've been (re)reading for half my life. Martin is never finishing this.

show is cannon. autism going to autism.

DickTrickle said:

If it was always like this you might have a point, but when S1-S3 are a reference point, only a simpleton would be so bowled over by dragons that they wouldn't see a decrease in quality and a sloppiness in writing and attention to detail.

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Agree to a point. But 3 less episodes, less characters at this point...and well, endgame kind of makes it obvious the writing would be different either way. Hell S1 often gets talked about as being too slow with all the characters being thrown at the viewer and backstory with Robert's Rebellion.

I bet when they see what people re-watch from previous seasons, it's not all those episodes in S1-S3 with the "character development". It's the big action episodes like Blackwater, Red Wedding, Watchers on the Wall, etc.

Chukzombi said:

except character development NEVER ends. right up until lord vader saves his son from palpetine at the end of the SW trilogy.

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We just got quite a bit of character development with the dialogue in the last 2 episodes...at least the characters that matter. GoT has bit more Ackbar level characters than the SW trilogy at this point.

Merrith said:

Agree to a point. But 3 less episodes, less characters at this point...and well, endgame kind of makes it obvious the writing would be different either way. Hell S1 often gets talked about as being too slow with all the characters being thrown at the viewer and backstory with Robert's Rebellion.

I bet when they see what people re-watch from previous seasons, it's not all those episodes in S1-S3 with the "character development". It's the big action episodes like Blackwater, Red Wedding, Watchers on the Wall, etc.

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But the development is what makes those scenes so much better. Character and tension buildup and believable plotting.

And even then, I disagree with that simple breakdown. I definitely liked much more than just big battle scenes. I can rewatch Joffrey scenes all day long.

But yeah, if someone mostly cares about spectacle, this season probably didn't disappoint as much. That wouldn't be surprising to me.

Also, I don't care about time constraints or budget or not having source material. Knowing that doesn't change reality of the finished product. If you can judge on a curve knowing that, all the more power to you.

Merrith said:

We just got quite a bit of character development with the dialogue in the last 2 episodes...at least the characters that matter. GoT has bit more Ackbar level characters than the SW trilogy at this point.

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Arguably Ned Stark got more character development than he did his entire season alive. Everything he was seen saying and doing was a deception and that was seasons ago. GODS, a Targaaaaaaaaaaaaarian baby on a open field Ned. He suffered 17 years of wrath of a pissed off wife without telling her the truth. Apparently he told Benjen though as he seems to always have known Jon was Aegon, 50th of his name.

DickTrickle said:

But the development is what makes those scenes so much better. Character and tension buildup and believable plotting.

And even then, I disagree with that simple breakdown. I definitely liked much more than just big battle scenes. I can rewatch Joffrey scenes all day long.

But yeah, if someone mostly cares about spectacle, this season probably didn't disappoint as much. That wouldn't be surprising to me.

Also, I don't care about time constraints or budget or not having source material. Knowing that doesn't change reality of the finished product. If you can judge on a curve knowing that, all the more power to you.

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You and I might like those scenes just as much, as would many book readers....but for many show watchers this isn't the case. Shit we already dog Martin for the last 2 books even, which arguably have a greater effect on how they wrote the last 2 seasons than the first 3 books. I thought we got plenty of character development this season unless you wanted more Euron after the first couple episodes, more Grey Worm, etc. A lot of the dialogue in the first 30-45 minutes of the final 2 episodes was quite good, and did a great job of either introducing dynamics among characters that hadn't been on screen together before...or reintroducing dynamics between characters that hadn't been on screen together for several seasons. Hell just the Bronn and Poderick interactions in this finale episode I loved because it was everyone taking stock of where they are now, and acknowledging that whatever happened, was good to see each other again.

Olebass said:

Arguably Ned Stark got more character development than he did his entire season alive. Everything he was seen saying and doing was a deception and that was seasons ago. GODS, a Targaaaaaaaaaaaaarian baby on a open field Ned. He suffered 17 years of wrath of a pissed off wife without telling her the truth. Apparently he told Benjen though as he seems to always have known Jon was Aegon, 50th of his name.

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What led you to think Benjen knew? It's possible the original 3 Eye Raven informed Benjen of Jon's importance too, though, I guess.

Merrith said:

What led you to think Benjen knew? It's possible the original 3 Eye Raven informed Benjen of Jon's importance too, though, I guess.

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Early on like episode 2 or 3 of the series Jon told Benjen at Winterfell he wanted to join the Night's Watch and Benjen mentioned he could never father children in his lifetime service and Jon basically said he didn't care and Benjen replied you would if you knew what it meant or something along those lines. It was clear Benjen knew what his heritage was.

see, I think the scene with Tyrion is actually a bit deeper than normal fare for this season.

Tyrion is still conflicted. He really IS trying to serve the lannister name and family, it's not just bullshit he made up to save his neck from his bitch older sister. Dany and Jon bumpin uglies is bad for him no matter what. Either they cement a political alliance, maybe they get fucking married, or else they have a massive falling out. If targ / stark come together (tyrion doesn't know jon is aegon) then it diminishes the generational power of his family as well as his immediate personal influence. He was PISSED that Jon wouldn't tell a convenient lie. If targ / stark fall out, then he's REALLY fucked because he needs Dany to win to reinstate his family. And at this point it is reinstating his family. With him as the head of it. This ain't entirely altruism, bitch. Take a note from Bronn.

Jon and Dany is bad news for Tyrion no matter what on that front. On a personal front, he likes the both of them. So there's an internal conflict. And some actual character growth and development. Without five paragraphs of exposition to point it out.

That was one of the few nuanced scenes of the entire season. There was a lot conveyed without a single spoken word.

On the whole i've been more down on the tyrion character and actor than a raging fan of his. But that one scene of just a little dude looking anxious and conflicted in the boat hallway... he dun good. He has his moments. That was one of 'em.

Olebass said:

Early on like episode 2 or 3 of the series Jon told Benjen at Winterfell he wanted to join the Night's Watch and Benjen mentioned he could never father children in his lifetime service and Jon basically said he didn't care and Benjen replied you would if you knew what it meant or something along those lines. It was clear Benjen knew what his heritage was.

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Benjen Stark
Benjen was the youngest child of Lord Rickard Stark and Lady Lyarra Stark.[7][8] He attended the tourney at Harrenhal with his siblings, Brandon, Eddard, and Lyanna, in 281 AC. At the tournament Lyanna rescued their father's vassal, Howland Reed, from an attack by three squires. Benjen offered Howland a horse and some armor so he could challenge his attackers. During the feast held to celebrate the start of the tournament, he teased Lyanna when she cried for a sad and beautiful song by the noted musician, Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. Lyanna poured wine over his head for tesing him.[3]



When King Robert I Baratheon rides for Winterfell, Lord Eddard Stark sends word to Benjen on the Wall.[17] Benjen arrives in time for the feast held to welcome Robert to the north, where he speaks with Eddard's bastard son, Jon Snow. Jon rashly asks to be allowed to join the Night's Watch, which results in an argument between him and Benjen after Benjen states that Jon is rather young, and the boy angrily refuses Benjens suggestion that he father some bastard sons of himself before committing to a life at the Wall.[1] Nonetheless, Benjen approaches maester Luwin about Jon, informing the maester of Jon's question. This leads to Luwin informing Eddard, and eventually Eddard sending Jon north to join the Night's Watch.[19]

iannis said:

see, I think the scene with Tyrion is actually a bit deeper than normal fare for this season.

Tyrion is still conflicted. He really IS trying to serve the lannister name and family, it's not just bullshit he made up to save his neck from his bitch older sister. Dany and Jon bumpin uglies is bad for him no matter what. Either they cement a political alliance, maybe they get fucking married, or else they have a massive falling out. If targ / stark come together (tyrion doesn't know jon is aegon) then it diminishes the generational power of his family. If targ / stark fall out, then he's REALLY fucked because he needs Dany to win to reinstate his family. And at this point it is reinstating his family.

Jon and Dany is bad news for Tyrion no matter what on that front. On a personal front, he likes the both of them. So there's an internal conflict. And some actual character growth and development. Without five paragraphs of exposition to point it out.

That was one of the few nuanced scenes of the entire season. There was a lot conveyed without a single spoken word.

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A bit different and sticking to what I said last night which seems in line with what JP said in that article Cad posted.
If Tyrion is still serving his family it is more for Jamie than Cersei and he doesn't know that Jamie has left her yet. Once he finds out she has been abandoned, I don't think he'll mind as much. Especially if somehow Dany/Jon take Jamie in.
I think by the end Cersei will die 1000%. I think Tyrion or Jamie or both should they live will be awarded back Casterly Rock.

Chukzombi said:

Benjen Stark
Benjen was the youngest child of Lord Rickard Stark and Lady Lyarra Stark.[7][8] He attended the tourney at Harrenhal with his siblings, Brandon, Eddard, and Lyanna, in 281 AC. At the tournament Lyanna rescued their father's vassal, Howland Reed, from an attack by three squires. Benjen offered Howland a horse and some armor so he could challenge his attackers. During the feast held to celebrate the start of the tournament, he teased Lyanna when she cried for a sad and beautiful song by the noted musician, Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. Lyanna poured wine over his head for tesing him.[3]



When King Robert I Baratheon rides for Winterfell, Lord Eddard Stark sends word to Benjen on the Wall.[17] Benjen arrives in time for the feast held to welcome Robert to the north, where he speaks with Eddard's bastard son, Jon Snow. Jon rashly asks to be allowed to join the Night's Watch, which results in an argument between him and Benjen after Benjen states that Jon is rather young, and the boy angrily refuses Benjens suggestion that he father some bastard sons of himself before committing to a life at the Wall.[1] Nonetheless, Benjen approaches maester Luwin about Jon, informing the maester of Jon's question. This leads to Luwin informing Eddard, and eventually Eddard sending Jon north to join the Night's Watch.[19]

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What does that copy/pasta have to do with what I said which was a very specific scene in the series about fathering children followed by a scene shortly after where Jon presses Ned about his mother on way to the wall.
I even found a video just now looking for that scene that states the same things. About 24 seconds in it plays the scene.

Olebass said:

A bit different and sticking to what I said last night which seems in line with what JP said in that article Cad posted.
If Tyrion is still serving his family it is more for Jamie than Cersei and he doesn't know that Jamie has left her yet. Once he finds out she has been abandoned, I don't think he'll mind as much. Especially if somehow Dany/Jon take Jamie in.
I think by the end Cersei will die 1000%. I think Tyrion or Jamie or both should they live will be awarded back Casterly Rock.



What does that copy/pasta have to do with what I said which was a very specific scene in the series about fathering children followed by a scene shortly after where Jon presses Ned about his mother on way to the wall.
I even found a video just now looking for that scene that states the same things. About 24 seconds in it plays the scene.

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it suggests he knows she liked rhaegar. he put two and two together after she dies having a baby, Ned likely just told him. its his brother after all.

Chukzombi said:

it suggests he knows she liked rhaegar. he put two and two together after she dies having a baby, or ed just told him. its his brother after all.

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Oh ya, I couldn't find where what you put mentioned anything about what I was quoting but that video I linked explained that meeting and the whys and hows he possibly knew as well. I haven't read the books so it all makes sense after watching that video and reading that. Pretty sure it confirms he knew regardless if Ned told him or not. I still question if he is even dead though. We assume so and he should be, but he was already dead. What is dead may never die. Kappa.

Benjen also could have just been warning Jon he'll spend a lot of his life without being able to get his dick wet on the reg.

Merrith said:

Benjen also could have just been warning Jon he'll spend a lot of his life without being able to get his dick wet on the reg.

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Nah, at least for me I am 99.97321234342 sure on this. I questioned why Benjen sacrificed himself at the lake in episode 6 of this season. After watching the finale then seeing the scene I remembered from a month ago I was 95% sure. Now seeing Benjens history and that video made before the season 7 just makes it 99.97321234342% sure for me. You can still believe he just joined the Nights Watch to hide from a life of fun in Kings Landing and sacrificed himself ( possibly ) to save Jon so he could get his dick wet if you like though. I won't hold it against you.

lol woops again