GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

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BrutulTM

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Fucker said:
The killing blow was the same one she used when she sparred with Brienne last year.
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I think it's interesting that we haven't seen that before. There's tons of movies where somebody grabs the knife hand but I can't say I ever remember the person just dropping the knife and stabbing the person with the other hand. Pretty cool.

If you want to get nerdy, there's plenty of things to pick apart about the battle but that's true of most things. It was clear the second that the Dothraki got wiped out that the only way this ends without the total eradication of mankind is if the Night King has some sort of weakness and gets killed. The obvious one would have been dragon fire, then an epic sword fight with Jon, but this show doesn't usually do the obvious thing. As others have said, Arya is a trained assassin, she has a dagger that we knew had to be important to the story, it was foreshadowed and prophesied, so I don't think any reasonable person could be shocked that that's how it worked out.

The big questions of course are WTF was Bran doing and WTF was Melisandre doing. I think a rational explanation of all the religions in this show is probably too much to ask for, but I had no idea what was going on with either of them and I'm hoping we get some sort of explanation in the next episode, probably robo-Bran will just explain it which will be fine.
 
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Jive Turkey

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Ladro said:
It's Game of Thrones though, not Game of Undead. I've never read the books so i have zero context outside of the show, but when it originally launched I had someone explain to me that is was about people ignoring this threat of the NK for their stupid fights over rulership and dominion. All the backstabbing and power shifts were what the story was really about. The ultimate showdown is between Cersei and John/Danny now.
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The fate of the world trumps the fate of the throne. From a purely thematic view, the NK should've been the final boss
 
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Ladro

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Jive Turkey said:
The fate of the world trumps the fate of the throne. From a purely thematic view, the NK should've been the final boss
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Don't disagree. Someone with more literary knowledge would have to confirm this, but from what I've understood GRRM likes to suck the air out of the room when it comes to expectation. This feels like it's one of those moments where what was expected to happen isn't going to, just purely to fuck with you and flip the table on the expectation.
 
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Julian The Apostate

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The thing that pisses me off the most is that the two idiots that butchered the writing in this TV show always act like they’re William fucking Shakespeare level writers in the post show thing.
 
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Khane

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3 80 minute episodes left that will likely culminate in Bran showing everyone who Jon really is with some IMAX warging and the people in KL switching allegiance because he is the rightful heir or some shit.
 
Z

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Ladro said:
Don't disagree. Someone with more literary knowledge would have to confirm this, but from what I've understood GRRM likes to suck the air out of the room when it comes to expectation. This feels like it's one of those moments where what was expected to happen isn't going to, just purely to fuck with you and flip the table on the expectation.
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The difference is that when GRRM did it, it (usually) resulted in an improvement.
 
wormie

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The more I think of this episode, the more insulted I am. Whoever compared this to TLJ was 100% correct.
 
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Furry

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my prediction that this was helms deep has been fulfilled.

Next part of the tolkein story is they have to unite the realms of men to rebuild their army and then march on mordor [king's landing.]

I expect them to have some big fight outside the castle which looks super dangerous. The mountain is going to wreck people like a ring wraith and then we'll have clegane bowl going on. The hobbit will sneak into mordor and slay cersei while everyone is distracted.
 
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Brando

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After sleeping on it some more I just have to re-iterate what I said after the first episode that the only way to really enjoy this as a book reader is to pretend it's no longer the same story. This reminds me of the Dorne story line which was atrocious last season in that they followed GRRM's outline and then once they got past that they had no idea what Dorne was even for so just ended the story portion of it as fast as possible.

For last night, I agree 100% that for having the greatest warriors and battle commanders left in the realm you can pick apart the plan ad naseum. In the end though it's just quibbles as it was a hopeless fight anyway. The biggest issue I have though is this is a fucking FANTASY story. We have Ice warriors and a bunch of dudes with magic steel swords and dragons. White Walkers were in S1E1 and based on GRRM's writing were supposed to transcend petty regional politics because you know, it's the end of the fucking world. We get one battle with no explanation of anything and now that's it?! I mean come on.

8 seasons and it's Cersei and a Pirate as the ultimate bad people? Let that sink in.

Edit: Not one single White Walker fight, not one. I question whether the show runners even like the genre or even understood any of what GRRM was trying to convey based on S7 and S8 so far.
 
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Feanor

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Soygen said:
I agree. Did you watch on regular TV or through a torrent or HBO app? HBO Go looked perfectly clear. It was dark due to it being at night, but not dark to where I thought I couldn't see what I was supposed to be seeing. We also watch with our other lights off.
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Regular big ass TV. Looked better than the last movie I watched, looked new.
I'm pretty much over criticizing the show for laziness, bad writing, etc. I'll admit it, I have lowered my bar and expectations over the last 3 seasons and I enjoy the show more now due to it. That being said, my main problem with this episode is just that we got rid of what was the ultimate enemy and there are still 3 episodes left. Is Cersei supposed to be a bigger enemy than the literal threat to all mankind, the White Walkers? I'm interested in what the fuck is going to happen over the next 3 episodes, but i fear it will be anticlimactic in the absence of the Night King.
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Same. My only gripe is the Night King dying so soon but I'm really okay with it at the same time.
 
B_Mizzle

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iannis said:
I guess it's a little autistic but the tactics of the opening 15 minutes were "wait, what?".

Cavalry up front, then war engines... then, your infantry? Infantry up front, war engines behind them, cavalry on the flanks. You harry the rear or the flanks of the enemy with your cavalry. Their advantage is mobility. It doesn't make any sense to charge straight into a solid mass, you lose your advantage. You've got Jaime there who has been been shown commanding battles and you assume is versed in large formations of troops. You've got tyrion there. You've got Jorah there. Even Jon should have realized that was a silly initial formation. You've got a lot of people there that should have gone "wait a second, sure we're all going to die, but this is kind of a stupid way to do it".

And why are you shooting flaming catapult bombs AS your calvary is charging? If the enemy is just going to stand there... why not just lob bombs at them until they realize they need to move? Are you just HOPING to kill your own dudes?

That was the primary problem for me. Hardhome and the Castle Black versions of this actually had a sensible set of starting conditions.

The visual of the dothraki swords going out was neat enough, but it's not worth sabotaging the competence of your story just for that. They could have done a variant of that scene in the middle instead of in the beginning and it may have been even more impactful.

I know it's fantasy and all. But c'mon now. No one ever arrayed armies like that. Not even the british, who were famous for the simple solution of throwing more bodies at the problem.
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I liked the scenes but I was completely disappointed at how inept the good guys were at war.
 
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ver_21

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Jive Turkey said:
Anyone got a freeze frame of the undead just as the Dothraki charged into them? My Apple TV isn't responsive enough, but there was about 6 or 7 frames of the undead finally coming out of the shadows and it looked fucking crazy
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Jorah and Ghost
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The lead Dothraki rider runs right into a giant.
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Stay on target!
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Nester

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The worst part was howinconstant the wave of undead was. They went from knocking down doors with tens of bodies to standing in the library looking for good books and listening for blood drops? heros would get swarmed then have room to hack and slash then get swarmed again. The undead would have no reserves beyond rez, the swarm would be all encompassing.
 
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Qhue

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Be funny if Dorne just sits back and let's all this happen and then happily establish their independence. 'Yeah we knew about the ice undead...why do you think we are all the way at the other end of the fucking continent in this desert??'

Also amusing that Old Towne, which is the biggest city in Westeros, is completely untouched by any of this bullshit.
 
Utnayan

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Chukzombi said:
soon youll be asking yourself, how any of this can go forward now that Cersei's 3 main threats, Jon, Dany and NK have all been mostly eliminated? in reality Cersei, Euron and their impossible baby live happily ever after, occasionally throwing a Stark into a bear pit for their amusement.
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Yeah this last battle took out 90% of their ground forces. Who the hell is even going to fight Cersei? One dead dragon, another one MIA, and one left. Dothraki were used as fodder and the remaining forces were pretty much gone. If Cersei invaded them right now it would be over in 10 minutes.

I thought the episode was awesome though and a lot of holy shit moments. That initial wave of fire that spell cast on all the Dothraki swords (And everyone else) was sweet. And at least I could see when that happened :p
 
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Ishad

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What’s really got to suck is being brought back from the dead 19 times just so you can finally die as Hodor 2: The Hodor no one gives a fuck about.
 
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BoozeCube

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I love how so many people are just writing it off as "lol subvert expectations derp" yes it is refreshing to see a show that isn't formulaic Hollywood pig shit but there are also different levels of subverting expectations.

Sean Bean - Main character center of story get's his head bounced the fuck off, Oh shit I wasn't expecting that - Still makes sense falls in line with the story

or

You could have Superman show up and donkey punch Cersei this would also subvert expectations but it would be fucking stupid and have no place in the story.

So no subverting expectations is dogshit copout excuse when you go to far off the beaten path with it.




And seriously why didn't his entourage of his hand picked horsemen of the Apocalypse do anything. Could of had at least one of these dudes skull fuck Sir. Friendzone instead of letting a rando get the kill.

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Also if NK dying blows up the whole fucking Army why not just wait in the fucking back, goddamn the more you think about this shit the gayer it gets.

Isn't Bran suppose to be an ultra Warg? Why didn't this little American Inventor warg a dragon you know we all wanted it. As someone said boss was pulled and this little faggot just went AFK he came back just in time to see the boss die and you know that piece of shit is gonna roll for the loot and get it.
 
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TJT

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Ladro said:
Don't disagree. Someone with more literary knowledge would have to confirm this, but from what I've understood GRRM likes to suck the air out of the room when it comes to expectation. This feels like it's one of those moments where what was expected to happen isn't going to, just purely to fuck with you and flip the table on the expectation.
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Pretty sure we discussed this in length previously but this has been my thought. There are two kinds of writers in the world. Keep in mind these are extremely, extremely broad categories or a huge spectrum. You have dudes like Stephen King, who are prolific because they simply write a story outline and use their skill to fill in the story from one point to the next. This is extraordinarily efficient in terms of writing and nearly all super prolific writers are along this spectrum.

Then you have dudes like GRRM who are sometimes called, "Gardeners." They just write various stories as they will and they intend to grow them together into a coherent story. Some of the best authors of all time are like this mind you. That being said, The Song of Ice and Fire was meant, originally, to be as you say. A long forgotten enemy rises up and the realm deals with it. However, he got caught up writing very interesting and well done inter-political clashes, issues, world building and wrote himself into a corner about what the series was originally about.

Which leaves us here. I firmly believe he had something in mind for his, "Scouring of the Shire" answer as he likes to refer to ASOIAF as his response to LOTR (at least some aspects of it). It was always going to have this weird underwhelming ending with the NK.

Go read the War of the Roses and you'll see how much he borrowed from English history. Robert Baratheon is literally Edward the IV and a number of the Targaryn kings are heavily inspired by English Kings.
 
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Caliane

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Utnayan said:
Yeah this last battle took out 90% of their ground forces. Who the hell is even going to fight Cersei? One dead dragon, another one MIA, and one left. Dothraki were used as fodder and the remaining forces were pretty much gone. If Cersei invaded them right now it would be over in 10 minutes.

I thought the episode was awesome though and a lot of holy shit moments. That initial wave of fire that spell cast on all the Dothraki swords (And everyone else) was sweet. And at least I could see when that happened :p
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This show has long stopped actually caring about manpower. And arguably never did. it just at best paid it lip service.
Doesn't matter if the entire population of "the north" is 50 people atm. those 50 people will somehow magically be 2000 men, by the time they go South. And those 2000 will magically be a threat to Circes 100,000. Which itself magically appeared, after decades of fighting, to sack Highgarden, fight Unsullied, Dragons... (not including golden company, which is at least an explanation)

The reverse lampshade of the commoners, and where they are during all of this, and feeding them. "of if we just mention the lack of food, we don't have to actually deal with the ramifications of that."
Like so long ago. the idea that King's landing was not in open revolt, after the Septum exploding, and death of the king is ridiculous. But the show is also not really a political drama. its not about Circe fucking up being a ruler. its a soap opera. only the main characters matter. So Jaime showing up at High garden with 2,000 lannisters vs High gardens home defense, and 80,000 or whatever, doesn't matter. Jamie showed up at HighGarden, so High Garden falls.
 
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