GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

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Cybsled

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Most of the people QQing about book changes have no concept that stuff on the page doesn't always translate to screen, either from the standpoint that it just isn't practical (Tyrion's lost nose becoming just a scar) or it just looks absurd on screen (Clown-pirate Daario).
 

Jait

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I'm just confused how they can pick some completely tertiary character to complain about and ignore all the rest. I get that were all nerds here but damn, that's comic book guy territory to worry about the characters hair.
 

Drinsic

privileged excrementlord
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6,207
Yara/Asha and season 2 Mountain are the only casting choices that really bug me. Mainly Yara, she's just got constant bummerface going on.
 

Lenas

Trump's Staff
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I can understand not chopping off half of Tyrion's nose, that's a ton of makeup or CG work, but blue hair? Atleasta flamboyant uniform? They should easily be able to pull those off.
 

LadyVex_sl

shitlord
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man bitches love jaime or something, every women i've talked to today about game of thrones has been super upset about that scene and how it "dramatically alters the character of jaime". bitch, the dude threw a kid out a window how the fuck you gonna cheer for him... oh yeah, he's hot.
The thing about Jamie's character is, if you remove Cersei from the equation, he IS a good guy. Throwing Bran from the tower etc was due to Cersei saying, "He saw us, he'll tell someone". There are many instances where you can see that things bother him; listening to King Aerys rape Rhaella etc, and getting agitated and wondering if they shouldn't be protecting her. Killing the King to save the entire city. The dude went around with a title and a bad reputation that he willfully took on, because he knew the King's plans. A smaller point is that he is always kind to Tyrion despite the rest of his family hating and resenting him. The only time he was ever terrible was the whole Tysha thing.

The change messed up the entire tone of that scene, and will unduly serve to make him more of a monster to the audience. It isn't far after this event that Jamie begins to pull away of his own volition, now it will be in response to Cersei's attitude after this.

Also it creates the idea that Cersei is a victim; it tilted the tone and moral compass of several characters in one fell swoop. That's horrendous. The "external" crap was a whitewash of the event; (GRRM's explanation of the change) most smart people would have seen it as it was meant to be seen. A moment of comfort that became far more due to grief and the mutual loss of a child.

Now it's solely desecration of an altar, plus a moral sin layered upon incest, and a step back from the noble man Jamie has just recently realized he is not.

This will likely only go in one way; Cersei will obviously spurn him, and he will turn from her and work towards being all that a Commander of the Kingsguard should. Which ALSO taints that; Jamie stopped being concerned with glory, and became more concerned with being...well maybe not a good person, but one who stands for something more than broken oaths.

A man who killed a King he was sworn to protect, and did so saddling himself with a title of disdain, and a reputation of an oathbreaker, is not the same man who forces himself upon a woman who clearly does not want his attentions. There's also a lot that goes on in that scene that shows that Jamie also grieves, but for him it is muted as he was never given a chance to be a true father to Joff. Hell, a large part of that scene was called back later when Jamie mentions he'll give Cersei more sons.

It was an atrocity. I already saw what the change to Dany and Drogo's consummation ride did to people's assumptions of the Khal in season one; most tv viewers were convinced he was a barbarian, and Dany a whore who turned a rapist into a whipped husband. Instead of what readers saw, that the Khal was actually more intelligent and more gentle/considerate than any outsider gave him credit for. It was a specific thing that led Dany into becoming who she was, because here was safety.

Now, they'll change this, and no matter what Jamie does he is still an incestuous rapist. I have no idea, none whatsoever, how on earth this change was necessary to facilitate the dramatic change Jamie will undergo. Or rather, I have no idea how it will do so in such a way as to make the viewer understand how differently he views things, mostly due to Brienne's influence.

I understood other changes; Roz being a character meant that it was easier to get across to viewers that anything Littlefinger does, even in the guise of kindness, is usually only serving his own ends. Shae and Tyrion having a love story I think was to indicate that Tyrion is actually a good person; most of what we knew of Tyrion, especially in his marriage to Sansa, was said to himself. (That said, I dunno how they're going to get Shae to turn traitor and not have it seem even more outrageous than the book. The book showed her as more of an opportunist than the show does.)

This change however, really feels like it was more made to shock. The book wasn't rape; he was forceful, but not harsh and iirc did not even start undressing her till she responded to his kisses. The show was absolute rape; because Jamie had been in King's Landing many weeks prior to this event (Whereas in the book he returned just as it happened) we were able to watch Cersei shutting him down over and over again. When he went to kiss her, she turned away. When he asked her about the two of them, she said he was too late. So watching a scene where, given the background info on Cersei cutting him out, and then seeing her tell him no over and over again while he rips her dress, ick.

This quite fundamentally changes his character. Brienne is the catalyst for Jamie's change, because of how she views him (prior) and because of how she views honor. Jamie was a bit more good than given credit for, but he was also often a grey character, so with this act it's like he went slightly more dark before he's going to be redeemed. But I don't personally think it will work like that. He's always going to be a rapist now.

He is totally hot though, but the whole Brienne/Jamie thing was really very interesting, just for how Jamie views her. At the beginning he compares her to Cersei and keeps telling himself he doesn't give a shit what Brienne thinks, but by the end he's saved her life multiple times and he feels ashamed by some of the things she says to him. And she's not beautiful, not a queen, not anything Jamie has ever given a shit about, but for the first time he cares about something more than Cersei.

I don't know how they continue from here.
 
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The old Daario was better. Also, didn't know he was a rapper. Can't say I like the song much though:



Seems like a dumb move to leave the show, if only for future bedroom scenes with Khaleesi.
tongue.png
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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i felt no pity for cersei in that scene, she is a monster almost as horrible as ramsay bolton. besides, she likes it rough as shown in s1 ep1. she is cheating on jaime with lancel and others and is disgusted with jaime because he lost his sword hand.
 

Grimmlokk

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The show never set the stage for the flamboyant Tyroshi stereotype, so if he showed up all blue-bearded and shit viewers wouldn't see him as a believable lust object for Danni, they'd see him as Lady Gaga with a cock. You, begrudgingly, accept him as a fucktarget in the books because you are viewing him through Dany's eyes. This is not something possible in the show.
 

Homsar

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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I just dont see how people can think Daario hasnt done shit, hes breifly been in the show and cut off the heads of the captains, took the city Jorah, and just punked the champion like it was nothing and gave a fuck you to the city and didnt flinch ate the arrows and how much has he been on screen?
 

Sylas

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So how many storylines can they wrap up book 3 on and start on 4/5? The more 4/5 stuff they can start this season the less rushed (or less cut) next season will seem as they've got a lot of written words to convert into season 5 (books 4/5).

Bran's story being completely isolated they can fit in wherever they need to. those actors appear like 4-5 episodes per 10 and the story plugs along at the snails pace it does in the books. Depending on how in depth they want to go with the 3 eyed raven/brynden Rivers/etc they can easily get half way through book 5 this season and still leave enough for 4-5 episodes of bran next season.

Arya's story at any point can be wrapped up, just needs the hound to be wounded, so she can be sent off to Braavos to begin her training. The more of it that happens this season the less rushed it will seem next season. This needs to happen quickly, if there's any hope for her to be more than just training for the rest of the (7 season) series.

Dany's story is basically an episode away from the end of book 3. Just needs to conquer mereen. The more of her fuddling about trying to rule now the better. Her dragons are big enough to eat a child easily, so if they wanna go all out on her book 5 story they can easily get about half of that shit knocked out this season, leaving enough room for the battle of Mereen (beginning of book 6) to take place as the big event at the end of season 5.

Tyrion can be in Braavos by the end of the season, or even on his way to Volantis. Though I think most believe that Tywin's death won't happen until episode 10. They can always fast forward his travel in episode 1 of next season (just a shot of him in Volantis really, then on a ship towards mereen, depending if they include the aegon story or not).

Brienne/Podrick's stories are already advancing well into book 4 territory. Looks like Podrick leaves before the trial, and it looks like jaime will be sending Brienne off next episode in search of Sansa. The two can easily meet up and have their mostly uneventful journey together for the remainder of this season. Depending on how much they focus/cut out of their story this year, they could possibly meet back up with Gendry/bwob this season, before she is taken to LS. This leaves it open for the LS reveal to happen this season (though I don't think it will, I think instead the episode 10 reveal will be, as stated above, Tywin's death by Tyrion), and her/podrick's hanging, ie sword or noose scene to occur in the beginning of season 5. Most likely though if they do go with the LS storyline it won't happen until next season, thus they can bring thoros/dondarrion/catelyn all back for few episodes of season 5 since they aren't really needed in season 4 at all.

Jaime's story is slightly weird as they've shifted around his timeline so much. With him at king's landing now and cersei being so cold/distant to him in addition to tywin, once he gives away oathkeeper next episode I can easily see Tywin (via king tommen) ordering him to wrap up the war in the riverlands and off he goes to do most of his book 4 stuff now, in the second half of this season. Again kinda depends on what they do with brienne's story. I don't think they'll bring back Blackfish/Edwin this season, so the big showdown at riverrun and the greatest threat/dialogue from book 4 won't take place til season 5. Though plot wise it's kinda weak, to only inform viewers of what happened to them after the RW off camera, instead of showing the characters this season.

Davos/Stannis story has been subject to the greatest amount of artistic liberty in adaptation. I can easily see Davo's informing stannis of his plan next episode, and Stannis and his knights setting sail (for east-watch by the sea) the following episode, with Davos himself booking passage to Braavos. It's entirely possible him and Arya appear in the same scene booking passage on the same ship, though of course she'll be practicing her make believe name and life story (not enough of this happened in the show so far, just Arya=Arry) so davo's won't know who he's riding with. Just more Odd Couple starring Arya Stark + 1.


Storylines that will most likely maintain their pacing are of course Jon Snow's, Sansa/Baelish, Cersei's (to an extent, they could start hinting at the quarrel to come between her and Marg after her wedding to Tommen), and Sam/Gilly (though not sure what they're doing with Gilly, since she's now in moletown and the wildings are about to pillage it. Not sure they will kill her off, probably just scare her enough so that she'll get on the boat with Aemon and Sam and head to Oldtown at the end of this season).

edit: forgot the ironborn, no idea what the fuck they are doing with Yara's storyline, why Balon isn't dead yet, or what Theon's going to be doing since nothing really happens until winterfell.

Anyway, that's my predictions/thoughts on how the rest of the season will pan out, given the constraints the show runners are under to finish the story in 7/possibly 8 seasons.
 

moonarchia

The Scientific Shitlord
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Tyrion killing Tywin is almost guaranteed to be episode 9. They always climax on episode 9 and use episode 10 to wrap up and set the stage for next season. I would predict ep 10 will see Arya getting on the boat for Braavos. Tyrion will be getting on the boat leaving KL. Brienne and Podrick getting caught and strung up by zombie Cat will probably be the last scene unless they really want to drag that plot line out by running into Brienne's old pals and all that useless shit.
 

chaos

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I really doubt they bring back that actress for one scene in the last episode, I doubt we see UnCat at all.
 

spronk

FPS noob
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we will see uncat as the final scene, its a pretty big "mind blown" for tv viewers. they have traditionally ended with dany scenes though so maybe draky eating a kid

she's filming 24 right now in London so one extra day in Ireland is hardly anything extra. I'm sure she can return next year to GoT since nobody but Jack and Chloe live more than 1 season in 24
 

Adam12

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Or maybe the already filmed it when they were wrapping up last season.

I don't think we'll see it until next season, but they'd be better off doing it this season. Having an entire 2 years between appearances for her would really throw the chronology (from a viewer perspective) off.
 

Sylas

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we will see uncat as the final scene, its a pretty big "mind blown" for tv viewers. they have traditionally ended with dany scenes though so maybe draky eating a kid

she's filming 24 right now in London so one extra day in Ireland is hardly anything extra. I'm sure she can return next year to GoT since nobody but Jack and Chloe live more than 1 season in 24
Since they filmed this season of GoT last summer I don't think her current filming schedule matters much. If anything, if she wraps up shooting of 24 within a few months, and they do decide to include her, she can film her 1 episode for next season in a few months when they start filming season 5. (she really only has 1 5 second "reveal" scene and a 3 minute scene where she hangs brienne, if they bring her back she's not going to be very involved at all).

I don't know if they will include her or not, seems like a lot of hassle for nothing, and again she has like 3 min of total screen time in an entire season and isn't that important anyway, can easily be written out.

edit: Much like the aegon storyline, we'll know how important they are for the actual story soon, depending on if they appear or not in the TV show this season or next. There's 3 people who know the answer, 2 of them are making GoT and the 3rd is taking his sweet ass time writing book 6.
 

chaos

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I'm sure they will expand on the BWOB and sparrows and whatever else going on in the Riverlands, which can easily involve UnCat, if they so choose.
 

Sylas

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I'm sure they will expand on the BWOB and sparrows and whatever else going on in the Riverlands, which can easily involve UnCat, if they so choose.
with ~2500 pages left to adapt into about 10-14 hour long episodes I don't see why anyone would choose to add pointless fluff to justify bookreader lipservice by adding a minor character.
 

chaos

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I don't think the story of what happens to commoners in the Riverlands is pointless fluff, I think Martin was making a lot of real points with that and we have already seen the show follow up on that in some ways. I think they will want to show the viewers what to consequences of all this bullshit power lust has been. UnCat is a big part of that.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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they have already shown the land burnings as a result of harriers coming in and torching the fuck out of their enemies. thus ruining the land and when winter does finally get here it can be established that food shortages will be happening. i have no doubt Uncat wil be in here, her scenes could have all been shot in 2 minutes and they really dont need the actress later if they stick her under a veil or something. all they need is an establishing shot to tell the viewers that LS is Lady Stark come back to life. im wondering, since arya, tyrion, sam, gilly and maester aemon will all be heading for Braavos (well tyrion will be going to pentos) is it possible they stick some or all of them on the same boat? o course sam gillyn baby and aemon will be together, but is it possible tyrion or arya will be with them too?
 

Sylas

<Gold Donor>
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I don't think the story of what happens to commoners in the Riverlands is pointless fluff, I think Martin was making a lot of real points with that and we have already seen the show follow up on that in some ways. I think they will want to show the viewers what to consequences of all this bullshit power lust has been. UnCat is a big part of that.
yeah except no.

The time to show all of that would have been throughout season 2 and 3 while they were fighting throughout the riverlands. Their reason for excluding it is reasonable. They were forced to recast the mountain at the last minute and the guy they got to replace the mountain wasn't very mountain-y at all, so they showed him as few times as possible and instead, relied on narration and character conversation to describe what was happening in the riverlands instead of showing it.

One mistake they made of course was in season 3 they showed riverrun, and made it pristine. Cat even comments on it to Blackfish. In the books a failed siege had just taken place, with Edwin forcing the mountain and his forces to retreat instead of crossing the river and chasing Rob into the west. In the show they changed this to a battle at a mill (once again only described and not shown). They could of just as easily shown signs of a siege/war that had taken place at riverrun without the expensive of actually filming the battle there. They didn't.

Thats why this season we got the CGI shot of the riverlands on fire in the Arya/Hound scene. To show some of the aftermath. But the time to show it happening has already passed. Some of it is due to casting, some due to budgetary or time constraints. TV adaptation is a balancing act. It doesn't matter what points Martin was trying to make in the novels in terms of what is presented in the show.

Also UnCat has literally fuck all to do with any of that. the BWOB, until Dondarrion dies and UnCat takes over, certainly. but UnCat takes the bwob in a completely different direction that has nothing to do with the plight of the smallfolk and the decimation of war. She is pure blind hatred and revenge against the frey's for the red wedding. The corpse of a woman who had a complete psychological breakdown and clawed her own face off, starting hallucinating conversations with her dead husband, got her throat slit and then tossed in a river for 3 days, after watching, to her knowledge, quite possibly her only* living child being murdered by his own bannerman. She exists solely as a comfort to readers after the red wedding, and is a quite weak plot device. Luckily she only appears twice.

*sansa's safety and survival relying solely on Brienne being able to return jaime to KL and Tyrion lannister's word that he would exchange her for him