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chaos

chaos

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I disagree, I think she is kind of Martin's physical manifestation of the backlash against the Lannisters/Freys. And in the books, I haven't reread in a while, but I don't think you really saw the true impact of how much the war had effected people until book 4. And I think that and the sparrows are pretty heavily tied together, which plays heavily into Cersei's downfall. We will see, but I think it will be a better show for including more of that and less of Tyrion feeling sorry for himself.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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Lannisters? Which lannisters are those? The only lannister's left to hate (cersei) has her complete downfall paraded about you in book 4 and it has nothing to do with LS.

LS exists solely as vengeance against the Frey's, and basically dissolves the bwob and what it stood for to achieve it. The emotional response readers had to the RW elevates LS into something she is clearly not, and makes her into this super important revelation and central character that she isn't. She has 2 scenes and serves no real purpose in terms of advancing the story. She's completely out of place and I'd bet GRRM regrets even writing her in.

And you do see the impact of the war all throughout the books, well before book 4. by book 4 the war is over. The last holdout is riverrun which is ended bloodlessly due to Jaime's honor and the oath he made to cat to not raise arms against the tully's or the starks again.

You are saying that the sparrows are somehow tied into LS? or that they are even similiar themes? not at all. The sparrows are the smallfolk and the religious folks reaction to what had happened during the war. That plays into Cersei's downfall but has nothing to do with the Freys or LS.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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Martin chimes in about the Jaime scene. He does make the good point that the circumstances in the book were vastly different than the circumstances in the show, thus why a change is understandable.

George R.R. Martin reacts to 'Thrones' adding rape scene | Inside TV | EW.com

Looking objectively at the scene, the context of actions and events leading up to a specific event can result in vastly different outcomes. I sort of view the TV show scene in the light of Jaime being a PTSD sufferer that just hits his breaking point: He is horribly maimed, fights/kills just to get back to his lover/family, is rejected and marginalized by those very people because of his injury for weeks on end, tries to come to grip with the realization he can't sword fight anymore, suffers the loss of a son (adding to the feelings of inadequacy), and then it comes to a boil when Cercei rejects his earnest attempt to comfort her. Notice the rejection happened exactly when his metal hand touched her, which in Jaime's eyes makes it another rejection because of his injury. In that moment, all that bottled rage and feelings of inadequacy boils over and he forces himself on Cersei. It doesn't excuse his actions, obviously, but I do think it is important to understand the full context and emotional state of Jaime coming into this.
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

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Cybsled_sl said:
Martin chimes in about the Jaime scene. He does make the good point that the circumstances in the book were vastly different than the circumstances in the show, thus why a change is understandable.

George R.R. Martin reacts to 'Thrones' adding rape scene | Inside TV | EW.com

Looking objectively at the scene, the context of actions and events leading up to a specific event can result in vastly different outcomes. I sort of view the TV show scene in the light of Jaime being a PTSD sufferer that just hits his breaking point: He is horribly maimed, fights/kills just to get back to his lover/family, is rejected and marginalized by those very people because of his injury for weeks on end, tries to come to grip with the realization he can't sword fight anymore, suffers the loss of a son (adding to the feelings of inadequacy), and then it comes to a boil when Cercei rejects his earnest attempt to comfort her. Notice the rejection happened exactly when his metal hand touched her, which in Jaime's eyes makes it another rejection because of his injury. In that moment, all that bottled rage and feelings of inadequacy boils over and he forces himself on Cersei. It doesn't excuse his actions, obviously, but I do think it is important to understand the full context and emotional state of Jaime coming into this.
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I think the bigger problem I have with that scene (and the show in general) is how the show goes out of it's way to whitewash Cersei (and Tyrion too). How many times now have we seen where Cersei is the one that takes a back seat, Cersei is the one who is 'vicitimized', whereas in the books she's a completely different character. The woman is bitch supreme but you would never get that impression by watching the show. I dunno, the show writers can say that the scene is not meant to be a rape scene but that's how it was presented. I think the context of the scene makes it worse, we already saw Cersei outright reject Jaime in an earlier episode. I'm honestly surprised they even showed it since I figured the original context of it (how Martin described it in the book) was gone since Jaime has been in KL from some time now.
 
Ao-

Ao-

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My hope is queen high-bitch starts showing up in Cersei's character during her interactions with Margaery.
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

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I'm sure the women audience would really relate to seeing some blue-haired, blue-beareded mongoloid down syndrom retard having sex with Dany. I'm sure that would really get their panties wet.
 
Ao-

Ao-

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Noodleface_sl said:
I'm sure the women audience would really relate to seeing some blue-haired, blue-beareded mongoloid down syndrom retard having sex with Dany. I'm sure that would really get their panties wet.
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I'm already moist thinking about it.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

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Heh King Joffrey ?@King_Joffrey_ Apr 21
I'm gonna go ahead and assume Game of Thrones was the first show to have a brother rape his sister next to their dead son's corpse.
 
Attog

Attog

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Brienne and Podrick getting caught and strung up by zombie Cat


It's been a few years since I read the books. I don't remember this at all. So Brienne and Podrick are killed off soon? For some reason I thought Brienne went off and was going to have more adventures of her own.
 
BoldW

BoldW

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Well, the "word" Brienne yelled to uncat saved her life from hanging when she and Pod were strung up. We see Brienne later, so it obviously saved her. But any mention of Podrick has yet to happen, so we need to wait to see what Evil Santa did to him.
 
iannis

iannis

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Kreugen_sl said:
Heh King Joffrey ?@King_Joffrey_ Apr 21
I'm gonna go ahead and assume Game of Thrones was the first show to have a brother rape his sister next to their dead son's corpse.
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The ONE time The Simpsons didn't already do it.

Exception proves the rule.
 
Alex

Alex

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I've also enjoyed Dany's story. She's just demolishing these slave cities in badass ways. Sure, it's going to take a while before she's relevant in Westeros, but the journey has been pretty wild so far.
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

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BoldW_sl said:
Well, the "word" Brienne yelled to uncat saved her life from hanging when she and Pod were strung up. We see Brienne later, so it obviously saved her. But any mention of Podrick has yet to happen, so we need to wait to see what Evil Santa did to him.
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The last time we see Brienne is when Jaime sees her and notices she's 'different'. She also says that she know where Sansa is (how?).
 
Attog

Attog

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Vandyn_sl said:
The last time we see Brienne is when Jaime sees her and notices she's 'different'. She also says that she know where Sansa is (how?).
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Thanks Vandyn, I clearly need to refresh my memory on this stuff. Which book was this in?
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

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attog_sl said:
Thanks Vandyn, I clearly need to refresh my memory on this stuff. Which book was this in?
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The Lady Stoneheart stuff is at the end of Feast, I think the Jaime/Brienne scene is in Dragons. From the fire and ice wiki:

Brienne appears briefly at Pennytree when Jaime camps there, whatever word she shouted apparently making the Brotherhood spare her. She asks Jaime to help her save Sansa Stark from the Hound, claiming they are a day's ride away. She tells Jaime, however, that he must go with her alone, or the Hound will kill Sansa.[23] The scenario she describes, however, seems unlikely to be real, as Sansa was last seen by readers in the Vale and the Hound is apparently dead.
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

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I always had this thought that Brienne was killed and then mass rezzed, but no one else shared that so I felt stupid and never brought it up again.
 
Stave

Stave

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One thing that kind of dawned on me this last episode, is why is everything and everyone on Essos is so much more "epic" and "magical" than on Westeros? For example in Meereen, the city Daenerys is taking right now, on the big cutaway camera angle, there are HUGE epic pyramids in the background that would dwarf King's Landing. And another big example, Daario, he just took out that dude on the horse with a throwing knife like some magic ninja. If you take one of Westeros's best fighters, Jaime Lannister who is the kingslayer, and seems like he wouldn't last 2 seconds against Daario, nor would Ned or Rob Stark if you put them against Daario. 3 guys (Daario, Jorah, and the unsullied dude) took out like an entire army when they were surrounded in that city last season.

And then you have the assassin's from Bravos. The faceless ones that gave the coin to Arya. Dude could magically kill anyone. Hell, she could have probably had Jeoffrey killed with the snap of a finger. Contrast this with Westeros where people have to plot and plan it out, smuggle in stuff, etc. Also you have wizards, magical illusion towers, dragons, Dothraki, etc in Essos. It's almost a stark contrast with Westeros seeming like medieval earth in the dark ages, and Essos is like a fantasy world. It's like they are two different worlds alltogether, but not just the settings, but the "abilities" if that makes sense. Everything just seems much more powerful on Essos. The good guys always seem to win, and can escape impossible situations, whereas on Westeros it's like the bad guys always win, and good guys loose even when they have the upper hand. Just seems odd now that I noticed it, and maybe it's that way on purpose.
 
Tuco

Tuco

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xpost from the non spoiler thread
Stave_sl said:
One thing that kind of dawned on me this last episode, is why is everything and everyone on Essos is so much more "epic" and "magical" than on Westeros? For example in Meereen, the city Daenerys is taking right now, on the big cutaway camera angle, there are HUGE epic pyramids in the background that would dwarf King's Landing. And another big example, Daario, he just took out that dude on the horse with a throwing knife like some magic ninja. If you take one of Westeros's best fighters, Jaime Lannister who is the kingslayer, and seems like he wouldn't last 2 seconds against Daario, nor would Ned or Rob Stark if you put them against Daario. 3 guys (Daario, Jorah, and the unsullied dude) took out like an entire army when they were surrounded in that city last season.

And then you have the assassin's from Bravos. The faceless ones that gave the coin to Arya. Dude could magically kill anyone. Hell, she could have probably had Jeoffrey killed with the snap of a finger. Contrast this with Westeros where people have to plot and plan it out, smuggle in stuff, etc. Also you have wizards, magical illusion towers, dragons, Dothraki, etc in Essos. It's almost a stark contrast with Westeros seeming like medieval earth in the dark ages, and Essos is like a fantasy world. It's like they are two different worlds alltogether, but not just the settings, but the "abilities" if that makes sense. Everything just seems much more powerful on Essos. The good guys always seem to win, and can escape impossible situations, whereas on Westeros it's like the bad guys always win, and good guys loose even when they have the upper hand. Just seems odd now that I noticed it, and maybe it's that way on purpose.
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I had never thought of that and Stave is pretty right. We've talked about how there's a huge split between the two continents but the fantasy and powerlevel seems really off between say, pre-nerf Jaime and Daario.
 
Lenas

Lenas

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The most basic answer is that all of the cities and civilizations on Essos have been around way longer and also have a much higher... appreciation for slave labor. Westeros is basically the USA.
 
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