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Gamma Rays

Gamma Rays

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I rewatched the episode last night. Which allowed me to get another blow by blow of the rape scene- pun intended

The dialogue they shared first was to do with her strong belief that Tyrion was the one who killed Joffery and Cersei wanting Jaime to find and kill Sensa as an act of revenge. Jaime agrees to it.

They then started with a mutual kiss which Cersei pulled away from first. Then Jaime said his line about "Why did I fall in love with such an evil bitch" words to that effect. He then went on with it, as she from then on wasn't keen. He wrestled her to the ground, taking control of the whole situation

Cersei was kind of pushing against Jaime's chest and, other than some awkward stuggling noises, she was saying (twice I think ) "It's not right". Which I can only read as a reference to the fact that they were right there next to Joffery's corpse. My point is that "It's not right" is still a number of degrees short of "No!" or "What the fuck you doing! Get off me now!!" they would be more of an absolute statement.

Jaime said the last real line of the scene "I don't care". A statement saying, too bad, this shits happening now.

So was it 100% Rape? Or was it forcing a woman to have sex when she didn't want it?
 
Noble Savage

Noble Savage

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All this rape bullshit has distracted us from the best part of the last episode. When Shireen gives Ser Davos shit because he thinks "knight" is pronounced k-nigget. That shit had me rolling.
 
E

elidib

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I also think they are changing the situation bigtime from the books to the TV show.

In the books, it's a bit ambiguous whether she was telling the truth or lying.

In the TV show, they have set everything up for her to be perfectly innocent when tyrion busts in, and tyrion gets it all wrong. - "Have her brought to my chambers." "I didn't know what was going on! they brought me here and stripped me then left me and I've been here alone the whole time!"

I wish they wouldn't have added the scenes/dialogue spelling it out for viewers, it would have been much better if left completely up to the viewer to decide whether she really was a backstabbing sell-out, or if she was coerced into the situation with no choice.
 
G

Grimey

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I never though Tywin was someone for whores.

I think he can get all the highborn pussy he needs.
 
Chris

Chris

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Why didn't he remarry? Yeah he loved his wife but you'd think that someone so focused on his dynasty would be wanting an heir without complications like the current three, he can't seriously see TommenBaratheonas his heir.
 
R

Robert Baratheon_sl

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I'm guessing that at the time of his death he had not fully given up on Jaime. Was he actually "disowned" in the book like in the show? I'm just recalling Tywin going butthurt and throwing him out of his office or whatever. Probably need to read the books again at some point.

With Tommen on the throne the Kingsguard problem was still easily solved, etc.
 
Grimmlokk

Grimmlokk

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Chris_sl said:
Why didn't he remarry? Yeah he loved his wife but you'd think that someone so focused on his dynasty would be wanting an heir without complications like the current three, he can't seriously see TommenBaratheonas his heir.
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He sees Jaime as his heir. His pride and conceit won't let him even consider that he can't make that happen and work.
 
Jait

Jait

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Grimmlokk_sl said:
He sees Jaime as his heir. His pride and conceit won't let him even consider that he can't make that happen and work.
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That's my take as well. Jaime is in his early 30s iirc, plenty young enough and unconnected through his job as Kingsguard to take Casterly Rock and found a new dynasty. Tywin being a control freak just assumes once he's gotten past his youth he'll do what's right. It's a no-brainer to Tywin.

As for Tywin remarrying there's always the theory with a LOT of backup that he was impotent or unable to have kids, and all his children are Targs. I'm not a fan of that theory, but him remarrying and having kids would shoot that out of the water, as well as setting up a Lannister civil war between kids from different mothers...
 
Sylas

Sylas

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Jait_sl said:
As for Tywin remarrying there's always the theory with a LOT of backup that he was impotent or unable to have kids, and all his children are Targs. I'm not a fan of that theory, but him remarrying and having kids would shoot that out of the water, as well as setting up a Lannister civil war between kids from different mothers...
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wait what.

and you people have problem with the Oberyn poisoned Tywin "theory" which i'm pretty sure GRRM already confirmed a long time ago at a con or something (saw some youtube video with him pretty much stating this was a fact). Ok there's passages that hint that Aerys may have lusted after Joanna at some point but what else do you have for this "LOT of backup" that he was also impotent, that joanna returned the affections or that not 1 (tyrion is usually the one claimed to be a targ in this crackpot theory) but all 3 of the lannister children are targs?
 
Chris

Chris

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Yeah all three is a bit far. Since Tywin married his own Lannister cousin I guess it's possible that Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but was kept alive as he was still a Lannister on his mother's side. There's like 1 hint to this though, not "a LOT of backup".
 
Grimmlokk

Grimmlokk

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Sylas_sl said:
wait what.

and you people
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BTW now I'm digging deeper in to the theories about Oberyn poisoning him, some fun stuff.

Oberyn poisoned Tywin vol. 2 - General (ASoIaF) - A Forum of Ice and Fire

Follow up to the link earlier. I like some of the thinking. With Amory Lorch dead that leaves Tywin and The Mountain on Oberyn's hit list. He poisons Tywin and assumes when he dies from it he will get the blame. At this point he demands trial by combat because it's obvious Gregor will be the chosen champion.

Plus a bunch of follow up stuff.
 
Siliconemelons

Siliconemelons

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noble savage_sl said:
All this rape bullshit has distracted us from the best part of the last episode. When Shireen gives Ser Davos shit because he thinks "knight" is pronounced k-nigget. That shit had me rolling.
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It was funny, she was like "You dont want to look stupid and say something like kah-nigget do you?" yeah that was funny.

I just got up to speed, watched E1 a few days ago and then 2 and 3 last night- I had to watch them after e2 I just was like 3! not waiting, dont care if its midnight and I have to be at work!... I wish they would have shown Joff suffer more, what a cunt- I want him to come back to life oh lord of light- to kill him again...a few times.

oh my fuck poor sansa, little finger either killed joff (doubtfull) or knew it was going to happen (likely) and used the situation to his advantage...and that is apparently just sticking it in kat stark, or the now closest alternative sansa.

Tyrion...oh my- dudes learning the Ned Stark way... be in power be a cunt = you win in westeros.

So much stuff to say, but I am still catching up on the comments etc. here-- Sunday?! is it sunday yet?!

As for the rape scene, there was an artical on yahoo that compaired it to the book- while there are plot variances- all they need to do is next episode show them ending or shortly after and she be like "its all good" and it would kinda match up to what it was... this also helps people get back into the mindset that jamie is very lannister, as are all off them and they are all giant cunts...well sans tyrion but they are going to force him into being one shortly... I wonder how he is going to make it out of the trial... I partly wish sansa could save him.

at the end of the rape/sex scene when she was pulling on the cloth, I wanted her to pull joffycropse onto them, haha I would have lulzed.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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*shrug* it's basically a given, to me. idk maybe i'm remembering wrong but I could of sworn that grrm confirmed that oberyn had poisoned tywin and he was going to die anyway.

Of the mountain of foreshadowing, references, and coincidences that support oberyn poisoned him the clearest to me is that tyrion knew he would be on the shitter.

It's like TV. Nobody uses the bathroom in movies/TV unless it serves a purpose or furthers the plot. It can be used to show how nonchalant someone is by having them whipping it out and pissing in front of someone. It can be used to show someone is drunk pissing in their closet, etc, etc. It happens most often in comedies cus dick/fart/shit jokes are funny. But just random hero of the story taking a dump and that dump having no impact on the story? It doesn't happen. He wouldn't write paragraph after paragraph about how frequently Tywin is seen heading off to the shitter or how long he was spending in there, cus who wants to read about that. But he can insinuate that's what's going on by tyrion's thoughts, knowing he'd find his father sitting on the shitter. Some people think "oh he just had sex with Shae of course he's in the bathroom", idk about you but I usually have to piss after fucking, not sit on the shitter long enough for the girl i was with to pass out.

Also grrm mentions all these exotic poison's he's invented for a reason. He describes what they do and their effects so that the reader can recognize what poison was used to the characters he kills with it. Tears of lys on Jon Arryn, The Strangler on Joffrey, Widow's blood on Tywin.

Even with all the care that was taken with his body it still rotted and festered unnaturally, creating a gagging stench, etc. He was clearly poisoned. The evidence that Oberyn is the one who did it is pretty solid as well.
 
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