GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Honestly I thought that was a good episode. That's more along the lines of what people watch the show for, really.

They didn't rig the tunnel because Commander Alastair didn't believe the recon / attempted a different strategy. His second guessing address to Snow at the start of the battle. They don't put a lot of works at the top of the wall because... I dunno. There aren't really that many of them, the wall is generations old, the engineering is beyond their means, the wall itself is enough of a defensive structure that if you can't stop a horde of barbarians from scaling it in the first place then crenelations at the top of it are gonna make shit for difference. Take your pick. I guess you could say, for the obvious lack of flanking on top of the wall, maybe Mance doesn't trust his army enough to divide it? He's leading a giant mob and holding it together through force of will alone, basically. If he sends out tribes to climb then he isn't sure they'll actually flank when they get up top but probably just climb down the other side and make a run to pillage the countryside. I dunno if that's book-friendly, but it makes sense to me. As for the giant artillery... good point... I guess no one accused wildlings or giants of being smart. It may just not be in their cultural make-up to even think about fighting wars in that way. Tribal culture, tribal warfare.

I suspect it's like helms deep / the battle of minas tirith. If you've read the books then it's easier to be critical of the screen adaptation, because there are just sequences which get changed for whatever reason (budget, I would think). Remember how legolas used a shield like a skateboard, and him and Gilmi had the orc killing contest?

Yeah, good times good times. But still having not read the chapters... I thought that depiction of the defense of Castle Black was good bordering on pretty fuk'n cool.

They also never envisioned having to face a massive army of wildlings.

Foggy_sl said:

They also never envisioned having to face a massive army of wildlings.

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What's the big wall for, then?

Silence_sl said:

What's the big wall for, then?

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Not sure if serious.

Hint: Not the wildlings.

Tarrant_sl said:

They don't know that that's their "main force" though, they think the whole wall is manned, that's why they went out and killed the deserting crows so they wouldn't spill the beans on their lack of numbers.

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This is the one plot hole in the whole thing. The wildlings have worgs too and they control birds... couldn't that have scouted and saw that none of the other castles are manned?

From what I understand it was to keep all the old world out of the new world. That includes White Walkers, Giants, and whatever the fuck else is out there including wildlings.

It's just hard to buy that after generations of that wall being there they wouldn't have better fail safes in place, but like you said if they did there's no battle so I'll just run with the fuzzy logic.

Yeah, I think the wall was raised to keep the snow zombies out. When it was raised no one much gave a shit about the wildlings, or they just assumed that they'd get snow-zombified.

Column_sl said:

From what I understand it was to keep all the old world out of the new world. That includes White Walkers, Giants, and whatever the fuck else is out there including wildlings.

It's just hard to buy that after generations of that wall being there they wouldn't have better fail safes in place, but like you said if they did there's no battle so I'll just run with the fuzzy logic.

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Well, think about it though. For the most part for all of those generations it has been manned by something less than the premiere fighters of the realm. It's where they send their convicts, their bastards, their malcontents.

I doubt if that's the personelle that they're sending they're real big on sending them boatloads of engineers and chests full of gold in order to accomplish the work. The first generations would have been the ones to invest in that, and those first generations DID invest in that -- just by raising it in the first place.

There was a small scene a few episodes ago with Melisandre reading Stannis his mail, one of which was from the Wall, and a brief comment from Stannis (I think) that its a kings duty to protect his people, and maybe something about preparing to move, but I'm not sure. It was certainly not spelled out move to where, if that wasnt just my imagination.

Yeah, but didn't they put together the guillotines? So they knew that something was going to scale that wall in force.

Would have seemed better while they were building it to build massive reinforcements that trapped anyone trying to get at the top. Something like what we use with Barbwire fences but much larger, and nastier.

Column_sl said:

Yeah, but didn't they put together the guillotines? So they knew that something was going to scale that wall in force.

Would have seemed better while they were building it to build massive reinforcements that trapped anyone trying to get at the top. Something like what we use with Barbwire fences but much larger, and nastier.

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Like a massive scythe?

Iannis_sl said:

Well, think about it though. For the most part for all of those generations it has been manned by something less than the premiere fighters of the realm. It's where they send their convicts, their bastards, their malcontents.

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It was originally more of a prestigous post. castle black is just one of like 10 castles with only 2 of them manned now. The white walkers have been gone for like a thousand years to the point where they have become legend so the walls defenses and army etc have degraded to send whoever the hell you can make go stand on a giant wall and keep out the rabble.

Eh, I would have lined the entire wall with Chinese finger puzzles, and called it a day.

I would have also written it so that the end scene of this season would have been Tyrion tossing Cersei over the wall, to the delight of millions of people.

Foggy_sl said:

Like a massive scythe?

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Exactly my point those Scythes are a one time thing, and only cover small sections. They also must have cost a shitload of gold to build.

Column_sl said:

Exactly my point those Scythes are a one time thing, and only cover small sections. They also must have cost a shitload of gold to build.

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They said to "hoist er up" after they used the scythe, and you could hear chains rolling in the background. Pretty sure they can re-swing it over and over.

ganthorn_sl said:

It was originally more of a prestigous post. castle black is just one of like 10 castles with only 2 of them manned now. The white walkers have been gone for like a thousand years to the point where they have become legend so the walls defenses and army etc have degraded to send whoever the hell you can make go stand on a giant wall and keep out the rabble.

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Yeah. And if you have good men on the top of the wall, then you don't need a lot of works. That part of it didn't bother me as far as "are these guys big dummies?" is all I mean. It's an institution that has slid into disrepair. Sort of a glorified exile at the telling of the story. But if -all- they sent to the wall were exiles, then it wouldn't serve any purpose at all. Because the exiles would be smart enough to go marauding through the north. So they're obviously still supporting the institution with at least some nobility and money. Just not enough support to improve it, barely even enough support to maintain it.

Great episode.

Fuck the haters.

Yeah, Stannis showing up isn't foreshadowed as much as, in retrospect, it's allowed for. There's that mysterious note that Ser Onionhands gets, and there is more than one mention of him mobilizing a force. But no one says where to.

0 probability that I think Stannis is gonna show the fuck up with an army to save the day without leeching the fact off of book-readers.

That Ygritte / Jon scene doesn't happen in the books, right? That shit was too cheesy. It would have been so much better if they'd spent the time on that scene instead extending the morning scene where they're rounding up corpses for cremation and he just finds her. And I guess comforts himself with the fact that at least he wasn't the one that killed her (he wasn't shooting any arrows downstairs).