GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Royal

Royal

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Gavinmad_sl said:
Like I said before, I've had people who haven't read the books tell me they think that, and while some of them may have picked it up from book readers, there is at least one whom I think didn't. That scene where they take the time to have Baelish and Sansa talk about Lyanna and Rhaegar tripped a lot of flags for people who haven't read the books.
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There's also the statement from Stannis, that cheating with some tavern wench was never Ned Stark's way.
 
Homsar

Homsar

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Gavinmad_sl said:
Like I said before, I've had people who haven't read the books tell me they think that, and while some of them may have picked it up from book readers, there is at least one whom I think didn't. That scene where they take the time to have Baelish and Sansa talk about Lyanna and Rhaegar tripped a lot of flags for people who haven't read the books.

Nothing in the books really 'suggests' R+L=J, it just has more circumstantial evidence than the other theories, and makes more sense from a narrative standpoint than all the other theories.

Jon Snow/Theories - A Wiki of Ice and Fire - A Song of Ice and Fire Game of Thrones
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Ok i call bullshit, not reading books doesnt stop looking up spoilers. What episode was the Lf/sansa talk
 
Royal

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Chris_sl said:
Bronn is going to be Arys Oakheart/Darkstar, he will turn on Myrcella for tits.
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What's he gonna do, cut down Myrcella then turn to Jaime, shrug his shoulders, and say "They paid me more ... gold AND tits"? I don't see how they turn Bronn in a single episode that doesn't come off cheesy.
 
TJT

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Uh, that's completely within his character lol. He did something very similar to Tyrion. Not gold though. They'd have to offer him a sweeter deal than Jaime. Marriage, land and title.
 
Gavinmad

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Homsar_sl said:
Ok i call bullshit, not reading books doesnt stop looking up spoilers. What episode was the Lf/sansa talk
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S5E4, Sons of the Harpy. Sansa lights a candle for Lyanna and thats when her and LF talk about what Rhaegar did. I agree it's thin, but there really are no other clues to Jon's parentage, and obviously everyone who watches the show is going to assume there is some sort of secret about Jon's parents. In the books there are multiple rumors about Jon's possible mother, but in the show there is nothing.

A lot of the same assumptions about the R+L theory still fit just fine in the show too. Ned wasn't the type to cheat on his wife, and if he had cheated on his wife, why would he refuse to tell her who the mother was? Catelyn wasn't the type to go avenge herself on some random tavern wench. It logically follows that Jon wasn't Ned's son. For Ned to be willing to dishonor his wife by claiming Jon as a bastard, it would have to be for someone very important to him, which is a very short list that Lyanna would be at the top of. For Ned to refuse to let Catelyn in on the secret, the knowledge of Jon's true parentage would have to be so dangerous that just knowing it would put her in mortal danger, which is a very short list that Rhaegar would be at the top of.

It's absolutely possible to come to the R+L theory based solely on what you've seen in the show after the talk between LF and Sansa. It's just even thinner there than it is in the books.

*edit*

The Sand Snakes don't have shit to offer Bronn to turn him against Jaime. They have no real resources aside from whatever Oberyn might have left them. The only person with the resources to turn Bronn against Jaime would Doran, or maybe Prince Trystane, both of whom want Myrcella very much alive and unharmed. He didn't really betray Tyrion, he just wasn't willing to fight the Mountain for him.
 
iannis

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Gavinmad_sl said:
S5E4, Sons of the Harpy. Sansa lights a candle for Lyanna and thats when her and LF talk about what Rhaegar did. I agree it's thin, but there really are no other clues to Jon's parentage, and obviously everyone who watches the show is going to assume there is some sort of secret about Jon's parents. In the books there are multiple rumors about Jon's possible mother, but in the show there is nothing.

A lot of the same assumptions about the R+L theory still fit just fine in the show too. Ned wasn't the type to cheat on his wife, and if he had cheated on his wife, why would he refuse to tell her who the mother was? Catelyn wasn't the type to go avenge herself on some random tavern wench. It logically follows that Jon wasn't Ned's son. For Ned to be willing to dishonor his wife by claiming Jon as a bastard, it would have to be for someone very important to him, which is a very short list that Lyanna would be at the top of. For Ned to refuse to let Catelyn in on the secret, the knowledge of Jon's true parentage would have to be so dangerous that just knowing it would put her in mortal danger, which is a very short list that Rhaegar would be at the top of.

It's absolutely possible to come to the R+L theory based solely on what you've seen in the show after the talk between LF and Sansa. It's just even thinner there than it is in the books.

*edit*

The Sand Snakes don't have shit to offer Bronn to turn him against Jaime. They have no real resources aside from whatever Oberyn might have left them. The only person with the resources to turn Bronn against Jaime would Doran, or maybe Prince Trystane, both of whom want Myrcella very much alive and unharmed. He didn't really betray Tyrion, he just wasn't willing to fight the Mountain for him.
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All that is probably true, but in the show it's a big who cares. We just assume that Ned is Jon's popa until the eventual big reveal that Ned wasn't! SCANDALOUS! And when that happens it's gonna be like, "S1E-What? Ned who?"

I seem to remember that Catelyn accused Jon of being Ned's bastard anyway when she told him that she was never able to love him and she wasn't sorry. It's more of a book sort of detail.

The sand snakes have boobs and poison and the antidote, and momma sand snake has cash. Boobs and cash is all you really need to turn bronn. Bronn already got sorta screwed by the Lannisters, and he's wise enough to know that they're even less powerful than when he made his first deal. Maybe they just promise him his 72 virgins and hint that King Bashir will land him for the favor. I dunno. They could turn him. Buddy cop shenannigans aside, Bronn's main character trait is not his honorable loyalty.
 
Royal

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TJT_sl said:
Uh, that's completely within his character lol. He did something very similar to Tyrion. Not gold though. They'd have to offer him a sweeter deal than Jaime. Marriage, land and title.
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Yeah I know that Bronn is a mercenary is every sense of the word and his loyalties are always for sale, but he's gotten rich on Lannister gold. He knows they pay (aside from Cersei) and there's nothing to indicate that their financial situation has become common knowledge. I just don't see him tossing aside an existing relationship that has proven very profitable for him for one that is an unknown, as a practical matter.
 
Homsar

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Just because Bronn doesnt have a death wish doesnt mean he isnt loyal. Bronn was happy and didnt want to go with Jaime but did so out of respect IMO. Money was maybe mentioned but I dont thing it was a real factor
 
TJT

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Royal_sl said:
Yeah I know that Bronn is a mercenary is every sense of the word and his loyalties are always for sale, but he's gotten rich on Lannister gold. He knows they pay (aside from Cersei) and there's nothing to indicate that their financial situation has become common knowledge. I just don't see him tossing aside an existing relationship that has proven very profitable for him for one that is an unknown, as a practical matter.
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You miss the part where everything the Lannisters who weren't Tyrion took away everything they paid him in the show? (Marriage into Stokeworth). Given, he might be a bit apprehensive to take some sweet deal from anyone in Dorne, even Doran, if it involved killing Myrcella or something. Then they'd have to kill him just to make their narrative fit the scene.

Edit: Homsar, he went only because Jaime/Cersei voided his marriage contract with Lolys Stokeworth and he had to go so they'd arrange another marriage contract for him into a richer family.
 
iannis

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True. But bronn taking almost every opportunity he has to say, "I'm loyal to one thing: gettin paid" does tend to mean he's not loyal.

cake.
 
BrutulTM

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Tyrion was totally fucked at the time. You can offer anything you want but that doesn't mean you're going to be able to pay it.
 
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Royal_sl said:
Yeah I know that Bronn is a mercenary is every sense of the word and his loyalties are always for sale, but he's gotten rich on Lannister gold. He knows they pay (aside from Cersei) and there's nothing to indicate that their financial situation has become common knowledge. I just don't see him tossing aside an existing relationship that has proven very profitable for him for one that is an unknown, as a practical matter.
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The thing is it really hasn't been that profitable for him. He got a title but Jaime screwed him over. He was supposed to get a wife with noble ties (all be it a 3rd in line or whatever) then jamie is like nope i took that away but if you come risk your life again ill give you something better. How does he trust that that kind of shit won't just keep happening
 
Homsar

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whatever bronn isnt an idiot and has never shown to be a backstabber. If he does turn on Jaime it just seems retarded
 
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