Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling
- Thread starter Lord Thanos_foh
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
You actualy reading the posts or is it selective? Of course it is, I forgot who I am talking to. You miss where I said do BOTH but make pvp the primary? And you think pve draws same numbers as pvp? Look in the mirror when you call people retarded.James said:
Says you, but a ton of the games on the market focus on one at the expense of the other. FFXI? EQ? EQ2? LOTRO? Vanguard? Totally PvE, with PvP being tacked on, if present at all. Guild Wars? EVE? DAOC? Shadowbane? POTBS? Totally PvP, with a little bit of PvE to do when you get beaten up.James said:
WoW is one of the few games that successfully maintains a good balance of PvP and PvE content, and frankly, it"s like two separate games in that regard; the PvE and PvP aren"t really very connected, since all the PvP is relegated to instances nowadays. They can get away with it because they have tons of cash to develop lots of content with.
There isn"t any fundamental reason why a game should have both strong PvE and PvP content, unless you come up with an innovative way of linking the two. I would rather play a game centered around a great, competitive PvP community, or a game with awesome raid encounters (but no PvP), than one that has a few OK raids, and some PvP on the side.
Let"s see BECAUSE I SAID OVER AND OVER THAT IS WHERE THE MARKET LIES. I can do caps too you friggin dickhead.James said:
No, you just do what you always like to do. Ignore what people are saying, butt in and spew crap.
Is it even possible to do both in equal measure successfully for an MMO launch?
WoW released with pve, and then threw money at pvp until it got up to speed. Even a big time super hero MMO had to go one way at the expense of the other to begin with. Can"t really see -even with such high profile talent in the stable- this game having everything and the kitchen sink at launch.
So while, in press releases at any rate, they can say the usual catchy sound bites of "were equally focused on both." In reality one path has to be taken at the expense of the other. The only real question is which, and to what degree. That's all kind of obvious ain't it?
WoW released with pve, and then threw money at pvp until it got up to speed. Even a big time super hero MMO had to go one way at the expense of the other to begin with. Can"t really see -even with such high profile talent in the stable- this game having everything and the kitchen sink at launch.
So while, in press releases at any rate, they can say the usual catchy sound bites of "were equally focused on both." In reality one path has to be taken at the expense of the other. The only real question is which, and to what degree. That's all kind of obvious ain't it?
Not to James. But I would argue the other way around from your point. That WOW was a pvp game with half its servers pvp. And that they ultimately added pvp to the pve servers via BGs and arenas. THAT tells you where the focus eventually lies.Blitzspear said:
And all the gear that can now be gotten. Yup, they couldn"t care less ;p And yeah I always give Blizzard hell for the dearth of new content.Zehn - Vhex said:
Yes, it shows you were their focus is at the moment, but when wow was first launched the pvp market wasn"t as prominent. So for back then, that was the right thing to do.
Stats can be thrown around to prove anything, your own eyes can see how much practically everyone is enjoying the pvp momentum. Thats about all am saying on the subject, have fun.
Stats can be thrown around to prove anything, your own eyes can see how much practically everyone is enjoying the pvp momentum. Thats about all am saying on the subject, have fun.
James
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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WoW released with neither, if you"ll recall. There were a total of 8 beatable raid encounters plagued with bug after bug that actually made assembling a crew to even attempt them a mini-game in and of itself. If you actually did manage to kill them, the loot was itemized so horribly to the point that there wasagilityon the fuckingmagegear. There was one non-epic 40 man dungeon, if it was indeed designed around 40 people, who knows. There were three max-level "5" man dungeons, two of which were nigh impossible past the halfway point as an actual 5 man team. To say that it was released primarily as a PvE game is misdirection at best.
There was no PvP system at all. No honor kills, no method of ranking, or established protocol, or really anything relating to PvP besides being able to kill the dude who is taking your shit (sometimes). To say that it was released as a PvP game is laughable at best.
What I think we can all agree on, however, is that itwasn"t finishedwhen it was released. That much should at least be blatently fucking obvious. So let"s see the direction they went from there -- wait, what"s this? They developed PvP systems and rankingsalong sideraid content in a successful manner, and refined their development process in BC to the point that those participating in both areas of the game is greater than it ever was before? NO?!?!?! I CAN"T BELIEVE IT! YOU GOT TO BE FUCKING SHITTING ME.
There was no PvP system at all. No honor kills, no method of ranking, or established protocol, or really anything relating to PvP besides being able to kill the dude who is taking your shit (sometimes). To say that it was released as a PvP game is laughable at best.
What I think we can all agree on, however, is that itwasn"t finishedwhen it was released. That much should at least be blatently fucking obvious. So let"s see the direction they went from there -- wait, what"s this? They developed PvP systems and rankingsalong sideraid content in a successful manner, and refined their development process in BC to the point that those participating in both areas of the game is greater than it ever was before? NO?!?!?! I CAN"T BELIEVE IT! YOU GOT TO BE FUCKING SHITTING ME.
Woefully Inept
Karazhan Raider
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- 36,849
It"s a fair point. WoW has done a good job at making long-lasting PvP content in the form of some good game types and lots of long-term gear rewards from PvP. But at the same time, if you count up man-hours of design and development, holy shit! How much more work have they done on PvE than PvP? Ten times as much? Fifteen times?
Frankly, I don"t understand why they don"t spend more time on PvP, because I think itis, at the very least, a significant portion of WoW"s appeal to levelcapped players. It took them two years to put in simple deathmatch arenas with a win/loss record, after spending a year and a half implementing some only very slightly innovative gametypes (other than AV, which was a genuinely cool, novel, and big PvP arena.)
You"d think they"d at least make some new goddamn maps for the arenas every month or two, huh?
EDIT: It"s true that WoW released with near-nonexistent raid content -- MC was such a shitty raid zone that it barely counts as content anyway. However, it still had a huge amount of very complete and polished solo and group content, complete with great scripted encounters, from 1-60. That"s as PvE as anything, and it was the main selling point at release. Better raids are a natural progression.
Frankly, I don"t understand why they don"t spend more time on PvP, because I think itis, at the very least, a significant portion of WoW"s appeal to levelcapped players. It took them two years to put in simple deathmatch arenas with a win/loss record, after spending a year and a half implementing some only very slightly innovative gametypes (other than AV, which was a genuinely cool, novel, and big PvP arena.)
You"d think they"d at least make some new goddamn maps for the arenas every month or two, huh?
EDIT: It"s true that WoW released with near-nonexistent raid content -- MC was such a shitty raid zone that it barely counts as content anyway. However, it still had a huge amount of very complete and polished solo and group content, complete with great scripted encounters, from 1-60. That"s as PvE as anything, and it was the main selling point at release. Better raids are a natural progression.
Well at least now you are discussing. But you still, as others, ignore the fact that HALF the servers were PVP from DAY ONE. Those on the pvp servers were killing each other as they leveled and still do so to this date. Blizzard EVENTUALLY decided to institute the honor system and then BGs. And what that did was bring PVP to the PVE servers, since all you had were the spontaneous world battles at ss/tm and the barrens. And now people on PVE servers can do BGs and arenas, get pvp gear and do PVE without the grief. But that doesn"t change the fact that half the servers STILL ARE AND REMAIN PVP. So half are pvp servers and the other half now has more pvp than when the game started. HMM, where does the focus lie?James said:
Is it just not feasible to have two teams working on both aspects of gameplay and to keep PvE and PvP on separate servers so everyone can play the game with like-minded people and actually enjoy it?
Ah well.. I miss the old games where you killed people and took all their shit.. and they killed you and took all your shit. So then you get your friends together and dominate.. and then they get theirs... and by the end of the night one person(s) has everything and is a badss until the next day when hes gang banged by 20 people.. then it all happens all over again.. the good ole days.
The vast majority of PVP servers filled up on release and post release because the general consensus amongst most hyped players before release lay in the concept that PVE servers only contained PVE, and that PVP servers contained both. So when half the servers are PVE, that is half the population that wanted to PVE. When half the servers are PVP, that is a portion of half that just wanted PVP and a portion who wanted to do both, PVE and PVP. You"re sort of glossing over that fact with the "half the servers are pvp, thus the focus is pvp!" argument.
I vaguely remember momentous bitching when BGs went live from the PVP community because then PVE servers that aren"t populated by asshats got to enjoy mass pvp that PVP servers vastly considered was their property. I"ll relent, the focus of the game isn"t PVE and fuck PVP, it"s more along the lines of "The game is PVE, and if you want to you can PVP as well."
Otherwise, every server at release would have been PVP. Since all PVP servers contain lots of PVE as well. Choices are a good thing, but you have to understand the reasoning why people made those choices, not just "lol it says PVP, the people there only play for pvp!"
I vaguely remember momentous bitching when BGs went live from the PVP community because then PVE servers that aren"t populated by asshats got to enjoy mass pvp that PVP servers vastly considered was their property. I"ll relent, the focus of the game isn"t PVE and fuck PVP, it"s more along the lines of "The game is PVE, and if you want to you can PVP as well."
Otherwise, every server at release would have been PVP. Since all PVP servers contain lots of PVE as well. Choices are a good thing, but you have to understand the reasoning why people made those choices, not just "lol it says PVP, the people there only play for pvp!"